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Thread: What Does One Do with a Pelikan M800 IB Stock Nib and What about M800 14K Nibs?

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    Senior Member Susan3141's Avatar
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    Default What Does One Do with a Pelikan M800 IB Stock Nib and What about M800 14K Nibs?

    This probably seems a silly question. One writes with it, of course. But to what purpose?

    I purchased a beautiful 1990s M800 blue from Rick Propas (my hero), and got it with the new IB stock nib thinking that I would love the broad strokes and bold lines. But, I find it's like writing with a big, fat Sharpie. If I write really large, then the pen writes quite beautifully. I have it inked with Shin-Kai and the shade variation is nice. But I don't normally write really large, unless I'm addressing envelopes. But I don't want to use my Blue M800 just to address envelopes.

    So, can you use an IB for everyday handwriting? I use my pens mainly for journaling and grading. Although I might find great satisfaction writing large blue Fs on certain students' papers, I can't really see myself using this nib for grading. And I journal in a Rhodia dot Webbie, and the lines aren't large.

    I've already contacted Rick about exchanging the nib for a fine or extra fine, but that seems so extraordinarily boring (if not utilitarian). I guess I wondered what those of you who use Bold nibs do with them. Do you use them only for signatures? Addressing envelopes? Or, if you use them for everyday writing, how do you make it not look like a first grader's penmanship?

    Also, while I'm asking questions, are the 14K Pelikan M800 nibs really that much better than the 18K ones? I know the 14K ones are supposed to be "better" but I'm not exactly sure how. Are they springier? Or is it just that they can be modified for more flex? Are they worth paying an extra $150 for?

    Thanks all for letting me ask my silly questions.

    Susan
    Show me a shiny blue fountain pen and I will probably buy it.

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    Junior Member Russ's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Does One Do with a Pelikan M800 IB Stock Nib and What about M800 14K Nibs?

    Susan, please don't make a rapid decision to replace the IB. Years ago I bought a Milord M that seemed far too wide. I held on, and as my handwriting developed and I began to appreciate wider nibs, that pen become an absolute favorite. I also had an M1000 with an XF and an F, and I wasn't satisfied. These are noble pens, and just seem best with a corresponding nib. Eventually I gained a B nib and ground it to an IB, and now I feel like Goldilocks: it is just right.

    Drier inks help, but they don't seem to be your primary area of need.

    Regarding paper, I keep three sources, in order of quality: printer, personal writing, and journal. Good printer paper is hard to find for wet nibs. Personal paper needs to allow duplex, and I can find it. When Exacompta discontinued unlined journals, I chose Strathmore cotton paper and made my own at far less than half price. So I have generally solved the paper problem.

    Since the M1000 is generously wet, I learned to lean it back (posted) and write with my shoulder. This reduced pressure on the nib as well as flexing; now the feed delivers a more consistent flow, and the IB allows my writing to appear nicer. I don't use the IB for fast work; it is reserved for journal entries and letter-writing where I can slow down and enjoy the process of thought and writing. Sometimes I write 25 pages in a study prior to public speaking; here the IB is at home.

    I hope you find a satisfying way to enjoy your IB. Please don't give up on it too soon.

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    Senior Member peterpen53's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Does One Do with a Pelikan M800 IB Stock Nib and What about M800 14K Nibs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Suzyq2463 View Post
    This probably seems a silly question. One writes with it, of course. But to what purpose?

    I purchased a beautiful 1990s M800 blue from Rick Propas (my hero), and got it with the new IB stock nib thinking that I would love the broad strokes and bold lines. But, I find it's like writing with a big, fat Sharpie. If I write really large, then the pen writes quite beautifully. I have it inked with Shin-Kai and the shade variation is nice. But I don't normally write really large, unless I'm addressing envelopes. But I don't want to use my Blue M800 just to address envelopes.

    So, can you use an IB for everyday handwriting? I use my pens mainly for journaling and grading. Although I might find great satisfaction writing large blue Fs on certain students' papers, I can't really see myself using this nib for grading. And I journal in a Rhodia dot Webbie, and the lines aren't large.

    I've already contacted Rick about exchanging the nib for a fine or extra fine, but that seems so extraordinarily boring (if not utilitarian). I guess I wondered what those of you who use Bold nibs do with them. Do you use them only for signatures? Addressing envelopes? Or, if you use them for everyday writing, how do you make it not look like a first grader's penmanship?

    Also, while I'm asking questions, are the 14K Pelikan M800 nibs really that much better than the 18K ones? I know the 14K ones are supposed to be "better" but I'm not exactly sure how. Are they springier? Or is it just that they can be modified for more flex? Are they worth paying an extra $150 for?

    Thanks all for letting me ask my silly questions.

    Susan
    My handwriting is fairly large and italic-inspired. I am so pleased with my IB nib. I use a lined Webbie as my pen-and-ink log and the entry for my M805 IB fits perfectly and certainly does not look like it's done by a first grader (I think. Or one that has had an italic course in kindergarten perhaps? See picture below). In a dotted one I might need to skip lines.

    2012-12-27 Stub comparison.jpg

    I'm afraid I can't really help you with the 14K's. I only have them in the 600-size and only in B (sorry!). They seem to be the tiniest bit softer, but the 600 nib is quite different from the 800-size anyway.

    HTH

    Cheers,
    Peter


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    Senior Member Susan3141's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Does One Do with a Pelikan M800 IB Stock Nib and What about M800 14K Nibs?

    Here are two really sad examples of my handwriting with the IB nib inked with Shin-kai. The first is in my Rhodia notebook. It's simply awful:

    8705991840_ec1f38a9a5.jpg

    The big blob in the middle is where I tried to flood the feed a little since the nib was skipping.

    And here is my Clairfontaine notebook. It's better, but still not great, and I don't use my Clairfontaine notebook for anything but practice. The pen is skipping a bit too.

    8704869461_63fa96aa74.jpg

    See what I mean?
    Last edited by Susan3141; May 3rd, 2013 at 03:29 PM. Reason: Clarified the blob in the middle.
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    Senior Member Laura N's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Does One Do with a Pelikan M800 IB Stock Nib and What about M800 14K Nibs?

    I don't think your hand-writing looks bad. And that nib really shows off the ink nicely. But it does take some time to adjust to a broader nib. If it's like most of my Pelikans, it's probably a wet nib, too. It's possible a drier ink would help. Pelikan Blue Black or Montblanc Midnight Blue are both on the dry side and close to the color you've shown there, or Pelikan Royal Blue.

    But if you try it for a few days and don't like it, maybe swapping out the nib would be better. Such a special pen should have a special nib, so you can use it happily.

    I have no idea about the 14k nibs for the M800; unfortunately the M800 is too big and heavy for me. I do kind of discount everything I read on the internet by half, though. I bet Rick would be a good person to ask for an honest opinion.

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    Default Re: What Does One Do with a Pelikan M800 IB Stock Nib and What about M800 14K Nibs?

    As Laura N more or less implies, I think it depends a lot on your preferences and what you're used to. I like and prefer broader nibs and my handwriting has grown a bit larger as a consequence. I see nothing wrong with your writing, certainly not in the Clairfontaine and in the Rhodia it looks much better when you skip a line as suggested I might need to do myself.
    One thing though: perhaps you need to give some attention to the angle of the nib vs. the writing line. Around 45 degrees would be ideal. From the looks of the line variation I get the impression you might be more than a bit off and the fact that the nib skips reinforces that impression. My IB never skips.

    Again, HTH.


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    Default Re: What Does One Do with a Pelikan M800 IB Stock Nib and What about M800 14K Nibs?

    Quote Originally Posted by peterpen53 View Post
    As Laura N more or less implies, I think it depends a lot on your preferences and what you're used to. I like and prefer broader nibs and my handwriting has grown a bit larger as a consequence. I see nothing wrong with your writing, certainly not in the Clairfontaine and in the Rhodia it looks much better when you skip a line as suggested I might need to do myself.
    One thing though: perhaps you need to give some attention to the angle of the nib vs. the writing line. Around 45 degrees would be ideal. From the looks of the line variation I get the impression you might be more than a bit off and the fact that the nib skips reinforces that impression. My IB never skips.

    Again, HTH.
    That's one of the strange things—the writing angle. If I try to write at around 45 degrees, no ink comes out. I'm having to use a super high angle to get any ink to flow. I'll try doing a good soapy wash of the nib. Maybe there's some silicone grease or something in it.

    And you and Laura are awfully kind about my writing. It's really bad! I can make it look good with smaller italics. But I won't give up yet. I'll try flushing the nib and give it another try.
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    Default Re: What Does One Do with a Pelikan M800 IB Stock Nib and What about M800 14K Nibs?

    That's one of the strange things—the writing angle. If I try to write at around 45 degrees, no ink comes out. I'm having to use a super high angle to get any ink to flow.

    This is the problem. You are working too hard to compensate for a flow defect. A loupe is needed to examine the contact surface of the nib. The nib may also need flossing to restore flow. You should be able to write very easily at 45 degrees.

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    Default Re: What Does One Do with a Pelikan M800 IB Stock Nib and What about M800 14K Nibs?

    I am not a great fan of my IB nib as it not "italic" enough for me. When it is in rotation I mainly use it to mark up documents - makes for a good highlighter.

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    Default Re: What Does One Do with a Pelikan M800 IB Stock Nib and What about M800 14K Nibs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Suzyq2463 View Post
    Also, while I'm asking questions, are the 14K Pelikan M800 nibs really that much better than the 18K ones? I know the 14K ones are supposed to be "better" but I'm not exactly sure how. Are they springier? Or is it just that they can be modified for more flex? Are they worth paying an extra $150 for?
    This. I have a few 14k ones and they are stiffer than the 18K ones. best M800 nibs IMO are the pre 97 ones with the E|N mark

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    Default Re: What Does One Do with a Pelikan M800 IB Stock Nib and What about M800 14K Nibs?

    Hi Susan! I got my first M800 with a BB nib, thinking that I should go for something different than my usual range of EF-Ms, and 0.8-1.1 CIs for this one. The nib was perfect right out of the box, wrote a wet line with some lovely line variation (it is a stubbish nib), and made me feel it was something special right away. But it was a huge nib, and I simply had no use for it! I tried to use it for a couple of days, and had to face a tough decision: Either I would keep the lovely nib, and hardly use the pen, or I would part with it and have a wonderfull pen I could use every day. I went for the swap and never looked back. The only thing that matters is that you enjoy your pen, and yours is the only oppinion that counts in that matter. Furthermore, Pelikan nibs come in a nib-unit assembly, which means that you would get a new feed with the new nib, and this would most probably solve your flow issues as well.

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    Default Re: What Does One Do with a Pelikan M800 IB Stock Nib and What about M800 14K Nibs?

    If not actually doing calligraphy, I use fine nibs...but to make more interesting try a fine stub or italic.
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    Happy Writing!

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    Default Re: What Does One Do with a Pelikan M800 IB Stock Nib and What about M800 14K Nibs?

    Quote Originally Posted by peterpen53 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzyq2463 View Post
    This probably seems a silly question. One writes with it, of course. But to what purpose?

    I purchased a beautiful 1990s M800 blue from Rick Propas (my hero), and got it with the new IB stock nib thinking that I would love the broad strokes and bold lines. But, I find it's like writing with a big, fat Sharpie. If I write really large, then the pen writes quite beautifully. I have it inked with Shin-Kai and the shade variation is nice. But I don't normally write really large, unless I'm addressing envelopes. But I don't want to use my Blue M800 just to address envelopes.

    So, can you use an IB for everyday handwriting? I use my pens mainly for journaling and grading. Although I might find great satisfaction writing large blue Fs on certain students' papers, I can't really see myself using this nib for grading. And I journal in a Rhodia dot Webbie, and the lines aren't large.

    I've already contacted Rick about exchanging the nib for a fine or extra fine, but that seems so extraordinarily boring (if not utilitarian). I guess I wondered what those of you who use Bold nibs do with them. Do you use them only for signatures? Addressing envelopes? Or, if you use them for everyday writing, how do you make it not look like a first grader's penmanship?

    Also, while I'm asking questions, are the 14K Pelikan M800 nibs really that much better than the 18K ones? I know the 14K ones are supposed to be "better" but I'm not exactly sure how. Are they springier? Or is it just that they can be modified for more flex? Are they worth paying an extra $150 for?

    Thanks all for letting me ask my silly questions.

    Susan
    My handwriting is fairly large and italic-inspired. I am so pleased with my IB nib. I use a lined Webbie as my pen-and-ink log and the entry for my M805 IB fits perfectly and certainly does not look like it's done by a first grader (I think. Or one that has had an italic course in kindergarten perhaps? See picture below). In a dotted one I might need to skip lines.

    2012-12-27 Stub comparison.jpg

    I'm afraid I can't really help you with the 14K's. I only have them in the 600-size and only in B (sorry!). They seem to be the tiniest bit softer, but the 600 nib is quite different from the 800-size anyway.

    HTH

    Cheers,
    Peter
    Hi Peter, thanks for your wonderful writing sample. Could you indicate how much space there is between the lines in your notebook? Is it 5 mm? or 7 mm? or something else?

    I am considering an m800 IB, and am trying to get a sense of whether that nib will suit my writing. Otherwise, I might go with the BB or 3B.

    Thanks!

    Chris

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    Default Re: What Does One Do with a Pelikan M800 IB Stock Nib and What about M800 14K Nibs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Susan3141 View Post
    Here are two really sad examples of my handwriting with the IB nib inked with Shin-kai. The first is in my Rhodia notebook. It's simply awful:

    8705991840_ec1f38a9a5.jpg

    The big blob in the middle is where I tried to flood the feed a little since the nib was skipping.

    And here is my Clairfontaine notebook. It's better, but still not great, and I don't use my Clairfontaine notebook for anything but practice. The pen is skipping a bit too.

    8704869461_63fa96aa74.jpg

    See what I mean?
    I agree with Laura above--your handwriting looks nice--especially once you switch over to doublespacing.

    As I note in my other reply on this thread, I am considering an 800 with IB. Now that you've had your pen for a while, how do you like it? I would love to see some new writing samples.

    I can't decide of the IB will be too broad for me: I'm also considering the BB and 3B.

    Chris

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    Default Re: What Does One Do with a Pelikan M800 IB Stock Nib and What about M800 14K Nibs?

    I think your handwriting looks lovely! I have a 40s Pelikan 101 IB nib, wonder how it compares on size, seems decidedly smaller than this.
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    Default Re: What Does One Do with a Pelikan M800 IB Stock Nib and What about M800 14K Nibs?

    Quote Originally Posted by cnjackson View Post

    Hi Peter, thanks for your wonderful writing sample. Could you indicate how much space there is between the lines in your notebook? Is it 5 mm? or 7 mm? or something else?

    I am considering an m800 IB, and am trying to get a sense of whether that nib will suit my writing. Otherwise, I might go with the BB or 3B.

    Thanks!

    Chris
    Hi Chris,
    As I said it's a Rhodia Webbie, line spacing is 7 mm. If you want line variation (which I gather from your thread on FPN), this will give you plenty, if the size of your handwriting can manage it. And by the way, the line on my 600-size BB isn't that much smaller.
    A word of caution on the BB/3B: if you decide to order one of these, be sure to make it clear what you want from the nib. The nibs in that width that Pelikan is currently delivering appear to be a big round blob, and that won't give any line variation at all. Unless you'll have it customized of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by tandaina View Post
    I think your handwriting looks lovely! I have a 40s Pelikan 101 IB nib, wonder how it compares on size, seems decidedly smaller than this.
    Usually the nibs from that era run narrower than the current ones. I have an OB from the early 50's, but I would probably call that an OM now.


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    Default Re: What Does One Do with a Pelikan M800 IB Stock Nib and What about M800 14K Nibs?

    Quote Originally Posted by peterpen53 View Post

    Hi Chris,
    As I said it's a Rhodia Webbie, line spacing is 7 mm. If you want line variation (which I gather from your thread on FPN), this will give you plenty, if the size of your handwriting can manage it. And by the way, the line on my 600-size BB isn't that much smaller.
    A word of caution on the BB/3B: if you decide to order one of these, be sure to make it clear what you want from the nib. The nibs in that width that Pelikan is currently delivering appear to be a big round blob, and that won't give any line variation at all. Unless you'll have it customized of course.
    Hi Peterpen--Thank you for your reply! (Yes, I've been inquiring about this over on FPN; I've only just discovered the FPG Forum.)

    I didn't realize the webbie is 7mm: your writing looks really nice with the IB in that space.

    I'm starting to think that the IB just might be too broad for me.

    But it's interesting what you say about your M600 BB. If it's not too much trouble, I'd be very glad to see a sample of that nob, too. Should I infer that this nib does not have much line variation at all?

    I had heard that more recent Pelikan nibs are blobbish. But some people who have the BBs or 3Bs indicate there is at least some variation. I'd prefer not to get the nib customized (for reasons of cost), but I suppose it may be necessary.

    Argh! I'm torn--and probably there's no way to resolve this until I can try examples of each!

    Thanks again!

    Chris

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    Default Re: What Does One Do with a Pelikan M800 IB Stock Nib and What about M800 14K Nibs?

    Anyone with a Pelikan M800 IB nib would be interested to watch John Mottishaw's video here ...

    I would be concerned with the skipping if it doesn't stop.

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    Senior Member peterpen53's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Does One Do with a Pelikan M800 IB Stock Nib and What about M800 14K Nibs?

    Quote Originally Posted by cnjackson View Post
    ...
    But it's interesting what you say about your M600 BB. If it's not too much trouble, I'd be very glad to see a sample of that nob, too. Should I infer that this nib does not have much line variation at all?
    ...
    No, you should not. It just depends on whether you will get a really new one or one from a number of years back, as you will see from the picture. Which is why it is important to state what you expect from the nib when ordering.
    This is a quick and rather dirty picture of the test page I wrote when I had just received the nibs. Staples Nice Day spiral pad, 70gsm, 8mm line spacing. No feathering or bleed through from any of these pens (just for the record: my vintage 100N medium with Sheaffer Jet Black bleeds through like crazy on the same paper). Please note that all nibs were dipped, so they may have come out a little more intense and wider than when properly filled. I think this applies in particular to the 3B. All were dipped in the same ink.
    As you can see, the BB has almost as much line variation as the IB. It is essentially an edged nib and to my eyes it has barely as much tipping material as the IB. I feel very lucky to have gotten this one. The 3B, on the other hand, is clearly from current production.

    2013-05-21 Pelikan writing samples copy.jpg


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    Default Re: What Does One Do with a Pelikan M800 IB Stock Nib and What about M800 14K Nibs?

    Hi again, Peterpen, and thank you for your post and sample!

    The sample is incredibly helpful! It does seem that the modern 3B is pretty round. There is a touch of line variation, but not too much.

    I'm struck by how the BB and the IB are very similar. My understanding had been that the BB is about a 1mm tip and the IB a 1.5mm.

    Right now, I think that I am leaning towards the BB.


    The other thing you said really struck me. I think you are saying this?: that when I order my pen, the shop may have different versions (newer and older) of the same nib size in stock, and that if I tell them I want a BB with as much line variation as possible, they may be able to accommodate me?

    I hadn't realized this was a possibility. Are there some shops that it would be better to order from, with this in mind?

    Thanks so much for your help as I wander through this maze!

    Chris

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