Prejudice Against Noodler's Ink

[Waski_the_Squirrel]

I've started away from both Diamine Pumpkin and Ancient Copper. Testing samples of both, I loved the color. However, the crusting on the nib caused me to stay away. What alternate ink to you find?

You won't like this, but I found Noodler's Antietam to be a much better behaved alternative.

[mhosea]

I have a cheap little ultrasonic cleaner, but it's too small to fit this pen, so I'll try the toothbrush.

Toothbrush is good. To use a smaller ultrasonic, and to use an ultrasonic at all with a piston, plunger, lever-fill, or just about anything except a C/C or ED, you'll want to suspend most of the pen out of the basin, anyway. Here's a photo I made of a mock-up of how I use my ultrasonic to clean, say, a piston-type pen. I just take an ordinary piece of cardboard and poke a hole that will hold the pen tightly.

I see what you mean about there being no evidence of harm. Well, part of me is thinking, 'absence of proof is not proof of absence', lol, but even so, the bigger part of me wonders simply, why bother?

Yes, I understand and agree to some extent. There is no life without risk. You must always decide whether any choice makes sense based on weighing the risks, rewards, and probabilities. You will almost always make such choices based on imperfect information. So take your best guess. It's always easiest when "why bother?" reveals that you have little to gain.

In other words, it seems easier and more sensible to treat these as gimmick inks and use them accordingly, and take regular ink business to one of the many other ink companies out there who don't have this kind of issue. Does that make sense?

That would make sense if you actually knew the risks. The more interesting the inks, the less you really know, but the greater the rewards if you are an inkophile. If Waterman Blue and Waterman Black is all you need to be happy, then I think you'll be pretty safe. Otherwise, welcome to the deep end.

As for Noodler's, I don't accept them as a brand. Rather I take them one at a time. Always have. In point of fact, I don't buy any Noodler's inks for their permanence properties. The gimmicks are just trivial details from my perspective. I don't know how many Noodler's inks I've tried at this point. A few dozen probably. I gave most of them away for one reason or another, often because they give me more of those little delayed "skip-starts" after a pause than my better inks, but in some cases I gave them away because the colors were boring to me. Some I stopped using because I was annoyed by the residue and found no sufficient reasons to put up with it, i.e. my "why bother?" The ones I still use are few but beloved: Noodler's Navy, Noodler's Upper Ganges Blue, Noodler's Ottoman Rose. In addition to these, I happen to use Noodler's La Couleur Royale and Gruene Cactus Eel because I have them and find them adequate. I will not replace them when I run out, however (if I ever run out). OTOH, with the first three I would have no trouble telling you why I bother. I love the hue of Noodler's Ottoman Rose, Navy is an all-around excellent ink (full strength and diluted), and UGB, while a bit too muted a color, offers a superb smooth-writing experience with reliable start-up. I really don't care that Navy is "partially bulletproof", but occasionally the fact that UGB is waterproof comes in handy (since I am a bit of a messy cook).

[Plume145]

Toothbrush is good. To use a smaller ultrasonic, and to use an ultrasonic at all with a piston, plunger, lever-fill, or just about anything except a C/C or ED, you'll want to suspend most of the pen out of the basin, anyway. Here's a photo I made of a mock-up of how I use my ultrasonic to clean, say, a piston-type pen. I just take an ordinary piece of cardboard and poke a hole that will hold the pen tightly.

I see what you mean about there being no evidence of harm. Well, part of me is thinking, 'absence of proof is not proof of absence', lol, but even so, the bigger part of me wonders simply, why bother?

Yes, I understand and agree to some extent. There is no life without risk. You must always decide whether any choice makes sense based on weighing the risks, rewards, and probabilities. You will almost always make such choices based on imperfect information. So take your best guess. It's always easiest when "why bother?" reveals that you have little to gain.

In other words, it seems easier and more sensible to treat these as gimmick inks and use them accordingly, and take regular ink business to one of the many other ink companies out there who don't have this kind of issue. Does that make sense?

That would make sense if you actually knew the risks. The more interesting the inks, the less you really know, but the greater the rewards if you are an inkophile. If Waterman Blue and Waterman Black is all you need to be happy, then I think you'll be pretty safe. Otherwise, welcome to the deep end.

As for Noodler's, I don't accept them as a brand. Rather I take them one at a time. Always have. In point of fact, I don't buy any Noodler's inks for their permanence properties. The gimmicks are just trivial details from my perspective. I don't know how many Noodler's inks I've tried at this point. A few dozen probably. I gave most of them away for one reason or another, often because they give me more of those little delayed "skip-starts" after a pause than my better inks, but in some cases I gave them away because the colors were boring to me. Some I stopped using because I was annoyed by the residue and found no sufficient reasons to put up with it, i.e. my "why bother?" The ones I still use are few but beloved: Noodler's Navy, Noodler's Upper Ganges Blue, Noodler's Ottoman Rose. In addition to these, I happen to use Noodler's La Couleur Royale and Gruene Cactus Eel because I have them and find them adequate. I will not replace them when I run out, however (if I ever run out). OTOH, with the first three I would have no trouble telling you why I bother. I love the hue of Noodler's Ottoman Rose, Navy is an all-around excellent ink (full strength and diluted), and UGB, while a bit too muted a color, offers a superb smooth-writing experience with reliable start-up. I really don't care that Navy is "partially bulletproof", but occasionally the fact that UGB is waterproof comes in handy (since I am a bit of a messy cook).

oooh, hang on a sec, I think I know what's going on! I suspect it's like with computer systems, where people can't seem to get on the same page because one lot is all about tinkering and the computer's inner workings, whereas the other lot couldn't care less, they need the computer to just work, to get out of their way so they can get stuff done. For both groups, computers could be a huge part of life or nothing more than a rainy day pastime, it's just the focus is different.

The part where you said 'If Waterman Blue and Waterman Black is all you need to be happy, then I think you'll be pretty safe. Otherwise, welcome to the deep end.'? That was a total 'tinkerer' thing to say! lol. Because in fact, for me it's neither - these are both extremes and generally, extremes don't 'just work', you need the happy medium, the slight compromises and the meeting halfway. So for computers, feature creep is just as terrible for 'just work' users as a dearth of features.

Same here: 'anything goes' is not practical because I can't supply the kind of experimenting you mention, but neither is sticking to just a blue ink or two, because I need a lot more variety than that (both for functional reasons eg color coding, and because I write a lot so I need to mix it up so I don't get bored).

Or where you said you judge each ink individually - that kind of experimental approach is part of the draw to a tinkerer, but to a 'get it done' type like me, that just sounds like a slog haha. Just like my 'why bother?' comment was totally typical of the 'I don't care what's wrong with it, please please just fix it so I can get back to work. I'll pay anything!' approach. That's why you can be so specific about just what it is you like about each of the noodler's you do like - which I could never do - and why my need for a few go-to brands I can rely on to have good overall performance across their range probably strikes you as too simplistic. Whatever you say about noodler's, it definitely doesn't seem to be such a brand, so for me, it's out of the running as a go-to supplier.

Ah well, takes all kinds right? haha :P

Which is great because the tinkering is probably what led to that fantastic idea for how to float the pen! I love that, so handy! I'd been thinking of blue tacking it to the side of the container, but that sucks because it would be on its side. I never would have gone for this, and I love this trick because it's applicable to so many other situations where you need something partially submerged. Sweet! I'm trying it tomorrow.

[Plume145]

I have no deep knowledge of ink and it's harmful properties to our beloved pens. While I see a lot of strong passions from both sides on Noodlers, are there concerns about Diamine? I used to use a lot of Noodlers ink but was fearful to put it in my "nicer" pens based on others comments. I love the array of great colors Noodlers produces, so I found Diamine to be close in the number of colors. Are there fears with Diamine similar to Noodlers as to potential damage?

I've not heard anything massively bad, and FWIW it's one of only two inks that Richard Binder actually recommends. I'm with you that the range of colors is comparable, that plus the recommendation (and a range of practical stuff like size, pricing, availability, etc) are what made me pick it as one of my staple brands in addition to my old fave, Herbin. It honestly doesn't sound like you could go far wrong, especially if you're a teensy bit careful with the reddish colors.

The problem may have come from the inclusion of a Baystate ink in your sampling. These will react and create interesting new compounds that have the consistency of sludge. I've done it on purpose...and then had a lot of trouble cleaning the residue from said sludge out of the beaker!

I don't know if the Baystate is your problem, but it easily could be.

gah, never thought of that! Thanks for pointing it out - it was the first one I did too, so there's a definite possibility.

I still like some of the Noodler's colors (can you say old-style BSIAR?), still have, what, five full-sized bottles, and maybe 20 samples, but from now I'm only using them in inexpensive CC pens.

Except for Bad Green Gator. That's my check-writing ink in an (equally) inexpensive Hero 329.

well, see? I've never had to write a check yet, and it doesn't look like I ever will! But if I did, I'd buy the cheapest ever pen or just use a dip pen since I'd almost certainly be writing it at home not on the go. But yeah - cheap pens all the way, like cheapest of the cheap. Preppies should do it since you take everything apart, which I believe is the case with a lot of chinese pens too, right? All three of mine do, anyway - right down to feed and nib. I mean heck, surely it will get clean then, right? If you can take out the feed and blast it with some staz on alcohol ink remover, lol?

[mhosea]

That was a total 'tinkerer' thing to say!

Guilty! I am driven to understand just about everything I see, though I admit that I'm getting more complacent about low-level computer technology as I get older. Unfortunately, I don't have the luxury of ignoring it completely. Just today I was forced to think about rewriting a merge sort algorithm to be more cache-friendly with large arrays.

Diamine is a pretty good brand, though there are some one-off problems here and there, such as hard starts and staining with Sargasso Sea, and slow-drying with Majestic Blue. Montblanc inks are mostly nice, if somewhat limited in colors. Lately, I've really been enjoying Sailor-made inks, and if the variety of the standard imports is not sufficient for your taste, you can import specialty Sailor-made inks (e.g., search for "Nagasawa Kobe Ink") through EBay for $20 shipped. You just have to wait an extra week or so, versus ordering something domestically, for them to arrive.

[raging.dragon]

I have no deep knowledge of ink and it's harmful properties to our beloved pens. While I see a lot of strong passions from both sides on Noodlers, are there concerns about Diamine? I used to use a lot of Noodlers ink but was fearful to put it in my "nicer" pens based on others comments. I love the array of great colors Noodlers produces, so I found Diamine to be close in the number of colors. Are there fears with Diamine similar to Noodlers as to potential damage?

Some diamine inks will stain plastic: demonstrator pens, ink windows, converters, etc..

It is unwise to assume any brand is always safe or always problematic. Even the claim that inks branded by large pen makers are safe is easily falsified, for example: Parker Superchrome inks would destroy pens, and Parker Penman inks had a reputation for clogging pens.

[Plume145]

That was a total 'tinkerer' thing to say!

Guilty! I am driven to understand just about everything I see, though I admit that I'm getting more complacent about low-level computer technology as I get older. Unfortunately, I don't have the luxury of ignoring it completely. Just today I was forced to think about rewriting a merge sort algorithm to be more cache-friendly with large arrays.

Diamine is a pretty good brand, though there are some one-off problems here and there, such as hard starts and staining with Sargasso Sea, and slow-drying with Majestic Blue. Montblanc inks are mostly nice, if somewhat limited in colors. Lately, I've really been enjoying Sailor-made inks, and if the variety of the standard imports is not sufficient for your taste, you can import specialty Sailor-made inks (e.g., search for "Nagasawa Kobe Ink") through EBay for $20 shipped. You just have to wait an extra week or so, versus ordering something domestically, for them to arrive.

Okay, can't say I understand much about that last sentence in the first bit, but I get the idea at least! And I understand the impulse to understand things, I just lack it with inks. I think the same person can be more of a tinkerer with some things than others, or it could even vary during a lifetime (like you with those low-level computer' things). In fact I bet it's actually the norm.

One of my all time favorite inks is Sailor actually! It's the Orange from the Jentle line. It just makes me think of orange groves with the sun shining through the trees - oblique so you get the maximum effect of lighting with minimal heat and glare. I don't think I've ever seen an ink with this much visual impact! And I get a lot of shading with most of the pens and papers I've used it. I do lean towards pens that are fairly wet and not too skinny and definitely prefer paper that is smooth bordering on shiny, so that probably helps, but I think I've seen others mention the shading on this one too. I was going to link to a sample but to my surprise none of them seem to put the beauty of this ink across very well! They all look too orange, sort of dark and dull - it's probably hard to capture it well!

Thanks for the tip on the specialty inks! I will look them up, and the time is fine for me because as I'm in Greece, I'm always ordering from far away.

I also know to stay away from Sargasso Sea - hard starts definitely counts as a 'doesn't work' thing! thanks for the warning, I particularly appreciate it because color-wise it would make a good alternative to my current mainstay, Herbin Bleu Nuit. Part of the draw for me in sticking to just 2-3 brands 90% of the time is that it's much easier to research those a little bit; if I've decided to stick to Herbin, Diamine, and maybe De Atramentis, and I want a blue-black, that gives me what, less than half a dozen inks? Googling them is totally doable.

It cuts through that feeling of OMG, there's just endless alternatives. Like if you normally shop at a small mom and pop grocery store where buying choc chip cookies means choosing between a whole three kinds, and finding yourself in a supermarket where you get twenty kinds! o_O I just hate that feeling, makes me wall-eyed haha, so I always find myself coming up with criteria to exclude whole groups. Am I weird? probably lol.

[mhosea]

Unfortunately, I may not have checked that fragment for some time, so even if we can replicate the result, it may take nearly a year to do it. I do not expect results in less than 6 months time. I hadn't done a dryout type experiment with Noodler's Blue, so it's possible that that avenue will yield an accelerated result, though.

Just checked both of the additional runs (several fragments each). None of the fragments in Noodler's Blue has deteriorated this time. I also tested Ottoman Rose and Noodler's Navy. There is nothing to report: all fragments, both treatment and control, appear to be in good condition.

[FredRydr]

There seems to be some prejudice against Noodler's....

I'm guilty. I figure, why invite trouble when there are so many alternatives available?

Fred

[ms8109]

i've used Noodlers inks, although not very often as i have 193 bottles of different colors of inks and approx. 125 sample bottles. So you see the chances of Noodles coming up for rotation are slim in my collection. That being said, of the bottles of noodles i possess, and BSB is one of them. i have yet to have a problem with this brand of ink, provided that i use good pen / ink hygiene as everyone should :-)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Best Regards,
Mike

[archaturism]

An ink that sometimes melts a feed, sometimes not. Could it be QC issues/bad batches that happen to be corrosive?

[SIR]

There seems to be some prejudice against Noodler's....

I'm guilty. I figure, why invite trouble when there are so many alternatives available?

Fred

Indeed... I would've jumped on the Noodlers fanwagon a long time ago had my experience with the lack of build quality in their pens given me more than fair warning. I appreciate the effort to make distinctive and functional inks, however, one key function is ease of use and reliability so, unfortunately, I am well deterred by their preceding reputation...

That said, I will probably give one or two of their more specialised inks a go, albeit only with a dip pen or similar!

[Fermata]

There seems to be some prejudice against Noodler's....

I'm guilty. I figure, why invite trouble when there are so many alternatives available?

Fred

I am in the same club. I have only bought one bottle of Noodlers and that was just a bad experience. The ink was so saturated that it looked and behaved like gloss paint.

[Lloyd]

There seems to be some prejudice against Noodler's....

I'm guilty. I figure, why invite trouble when there are so many alternatives available?

Fred

I am in the same club. I have only bought one bottle of Noodlers and that was just a bad experience. The ink was so saturated that it looked and behaved like gloss paint.

What ink? They have inks of so many various behaviors that you shouldn't blame the brand. If you're shopping for watercolor paint and you buy oil paint, don't blame the paint manufacturer. Read reviews.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[FredRydr]

...If you're shopping for watercolor paint and you buy oil paint, don't blame the paint manufacturer. Read reviews.

I don't understand the analogy at all. When reviews warn me off Brand X watercolor paint, why would you think I'd buy oil paint as an alternative?

[Lloyd]

If a review states that a given Noodlers ink is very saturated, why buy it and be upset that the purchased Noodeers ink is very saturated?

[Jon Szanto]

If a review states that a given Noodlers ink is very saturated, why buy it and be upset that the purchased Noodeers ink is very saturated?

OTOH, a manufacturer who is putting out an enormous range of fountain pen inks owes it to the customer to detail the specific characteristics. Sometimes Nathan does this, sometimes he doesn't. A consumer should not *have* to go to third party sites to read reviews from unknown reviews just to gather caveats. There are many brands that, while there may be some differences in the inks, do indeed have a product-line wide consensus of behavior and quality. Noodlers is, frankly, all over the map. He simply hasn't been careful enough in that regard.

[Sammyo]

Noodler's ink...
Used many over a period of time...
NEVER had a great experience...
Most experiences were downright terrible.

The inks were too dry, too wet, never dry on the page, feathering, staining, bleed through, gummed up feeds, stopped flowing, changed colour over a 1 month period in the bottle (kept in a cool, dark place), etc...

Batch control of colour - bad
Batch control of properties - bad
Guarantee that the second or third bottle will be the same as the first - basically 0

And because the batch control is so bad, you can't rely on any one review; or any one opinion; or any one experience.

Bottles are over filled to the point where if you submerge the pen far enough to fill, the ink spills over the edge. Some people say "value for money", I say bad packaging and waste! There is a gap at the top of a bottle of ink for a reason! Eureka!

I am a picky person, someone who likes thing to "just work". I'd rather pay twice the price and guarantee I know what I'm getting will do exactly what expect rather than pay half price and gamble with each bottle.

Ignoring "the effect on vintage pens" and the "political and ethical ramming down the throat", I just don't rate the quality of consistency of the ink production.

Sent from my SCV36 using Tapatalk

[archaturism]

Noodler's ink...
Used many over a period of time...
NEVER had a great experience...
Most experiences were downright terrible.

The inks were too dry, too wet, never dry on the page, feathering, staining, bleed through, gummed up feeds, stopped flowing, changed colour over a 1 month period in the bottle (kept in a cool, dark place), etc...

Batch control of colour - bad
Batch control of properties - bad
Guarantee that the second or third bottle will be the same as the first - basically 0

And because the batch control is so bad, you can't rely on any one review; or any one opinion; or any one experience.

Bottles are over filled to the point where if you submerge the pen far enough to fill, the ink spills over the edge. Some people say "value for money", I say bad packaging and waste! There is a gap at the top of a bottle of ink for a reason! Eureka!

I am a picky person, someone who likes thing to "just work". I'd rather pay twice the price and guarantee I know what I'm getting will do exactly what expect rather than pay half price and gamble with each bottle.

Ignoring "the effect on vintage pens" and the "political and ethical ramming down the throat", I just don't rate the quality of consistency of the ink production.

Sent from my SCV36 using Tapatalk

I've now from this and other resources learned about quality issues of that ink. But what kind of politics has noodler's been pushing?

Sent from my Alcatel 6055U using Tapatalk

[naimitsu]

There is a large contingent of young and broke new FP users who swear by Noodler's, and they all happen to be on Reddit. I've tried to help educate them, but I've gotten so much negativity that I've given up trying.

And FWIW, I am in the same boat as Sammyo.
I've given them a fair shake, I've regretted every shake.
I continued to give them a shot as I see writing samples that look interesting, but they continue to disappoint.
There are so many reports of undesirable traits that I've written it off as a brand.

I don't even bother looking at reviews or writing samples of Noodler's any more.