Prejudice Against Noodler's Ink

[Biber]

My first experience with Noodlers, when I first got back into FPs, wasn't a good one, and out of the subsequent dozen or so Noodler's inks I've tried, only one or two have worked for me like I think an ink should - one oddly enough straight from the bottle (Aircorp BB), and the other only after I diluted it 3-1. They're just too wet, too saturated and prone to feathering too much for my liking. Perhaps I'm wrong in thinking an ink should be good to go straight from the bottle. I'm also a pretty obsessive ink review reader, and from all that I've read I have come to the opinion that I seriously doubt that Nathan actually knows what he's doing. But, damn it, those colors!!! They keep luring me back. In General if I find a Noodler's color I like I try to find an equivalent elsewhere, preferably Diamine, before I'll consider actually buying the Noodlers.

[Pendragon]

I have had nothing but great experiences using Noodler's Legal Lapis, Black and Eternal Luxury Blue inks. They are stellar in every pen in which they were used. I never tried the Baystate Blue, but have read numerous reports of problems. A post on one forum showed photos of pen that had been stained by the Baystate Blue. It was a Lamy Safari, if I recall correctly. The entire thread later did a vanishing act, however. An employee in a pen store once told me that Baystate Blue had clogged her pen. The store might have received other complaints because they soon got rid of their entire stock of Noodler's.

If one, or even a few, Noodler's inks are problematic, that does not mean that all Noodler's inks should be avoided. Most of their inks seem to receive positive reviews. Glowing reports of Legal Lapis were a primary factor in my wanting to use fountain pens. Those reports proved to be quite accurate.

[spotted and speckled]

I have about 30 bottles of Noodlers right now, (Total ink is about 100 bottles, well enough to last me into the next decade) none of which I have had a real problem with. I didn't like a few colors, so those found new homes. Pen Hygiene makes all the difference in the world.

I am still looking for the perfect pen to marry BSB to because that is such a great color, I should have something inked with it at all times. I have a Parker 61 capillary filler filled with English Roses, so I won't have to be away from that color for a long time.

Whenever some turns up their nose at Noodlers, I always say "Good! More for me!!"

[dgator]

Noodler's Black was the first ink I used when getting started with fountain pens. I have not experienced any problems. It remains my favorite black ink.

[pencils+pens]

I have no problem with Noodler's Dragon's Napalm or Black Swan in Australian Roses. I use a sample of Noodler's Hellfire, a highlighting ink, as my pink ink of the moment. I have no problem with any of them.

I have at least one pen inked with each of the first two all the time. My Noodler's Nib Creaper Pink Panther is always inked with a pink ink, currently Hellfire, and is only used to write notes to my wife.

[Sailor Kenshin]

I have about 30 bottles of Noodlers right now, (Total ink is about 100 bottles, well enough to last me into the next decade) none of which I have had a real problem with. I didn't like a few colors, so those found new homes. Pen Hygiene makes all the difference in the world.

I am still looking for the perfect pen to marry BSB to because that is such a great color, I should have something inked with it at all times. I have a Parker 61 capillary filler filled with English Roses, so I won't have to be away from that color for a long time.

Whenever some turns up their nose at Noodlers, I always say "Good! More for me!!"

For BSB I use a Pelikano Jr. with the blue barrel...almost an exact match! Other people claim success with the Guanleming Demonstrator 2001. Of course, these are inexpensive pens. You may be looking for something more 'significant.'

[snedwos]

A one man (an obstinate, bullish man at that) operation with hundreds of different inks. Yeah, quality control is going to be problematic. And consistency is just not going to be there. There will be some great inks, there will be some truly awful inks, even between batches of the same ink. But I'd rather Nathan kept trying to push boundaries, and keep up the variety, than cut down on production so that he can polish a couple dozen colours and have them perfect. It's like my penchant for the open source software community. You get bleeding edge stuff, but things rarely get polished, since that is fairly boring work, and the time is better spent developing the next cool thing.

Open source is something Noodler's inks are not, however. Even to the point where he'll remain tight-lipped when someone approaches him asking for allergy advice. The one true horror story I read is from someone who got ink on their hands and came up in a nasty rash. When they contacted Nathan about it to ask about the composition so the reaction could be treated, he refused.

This is the one thing I have read that has bothered me. I don't know how much truth there is to it, I don't know the details of the case. But the person who posted this (on another forum -- not necessarily THE other forum) was exceedingly angry, and if she was right, it seemed pretty unreasonable behaviour. It may have been resolved by now, for all I know.

Just to be clear I am not outright accusing anyone of anything, and, ultimately, I think I approve of Noodler's on the whole. How many people will have got into the hobby through Noodler's, I wonder? I know I didn't know there was such a thing as a flex nib, or that vintage pens were desirable until I saw a couple of his videos.

I have used Noodler's inks, not a problem. And I'm very happy with my Ahab. Would buy again. And I'm aware of the risks, so I'm careful about hygiene and pen selection. My Vac maaaay get some Apache Sunset one day, but BBK? No way.

[cwent2]

How many people will have got into the hobby through Noodler's, I wonder? I know I didn't know there was such a thing as a flex nib, or that vintage pens were desirable until I saw a couple of his videos.

@SNEDWOS I didn't expand into fountain pens because of Nathan Tardif and his videos, but I am glad they were available as I learned quite a bit from them - along with folks from here and other's. I would say I am a hands on type, and like to know the what and why.

Just my 2 cents.

[Honey Mustard]

It seems like you've received many responses, but I thought I'd throw my $.02 in as well. Personally I don't use Noodler's inks any more mainly due to poor performance among other issues, and if I did I would not use them in any vintage pens I would mind losing. It seems to be a very common thread among pen restorers that what they call "boutique inks" (mainly Noodler's and Private Reserve as far as I can tell) damage pens. Now many fans of Noodler's vehemently dispute these claims, but the fact still stands just about every restorer out there who see more pens a month than most of us do in a lifetime say that these boutique inks are unsafe.

And as someone else mentioned, I don't think its prejudice against Noodler's inks in particular, just newer inks that have a tendency to be highly saturated, of which Noodler's happens to be the most well know of.

[Biber]

[QUOTE=cwent2;29626]

@SNEDWOS I didn't expand into fountain pens because of Nathan Tardif and his videos, but I am glad they were available as I learned quite a bit from them - along with folks from here and other's. I would say I am a hands on type, and like to know the what and why.

Just my 2 cents.

I'm afraid I have little patience to sit through his videos. If anything they turn me off to his ink even more so. His videos are so long and he talks so slow I just want to shoot myself after 2 minutes.

[Biber]

A one man (an obstinate, bullish man at that) operation with hundreds of different inks. Yeah, quality control is going to be problematic. And consistency is just not going to be there. There will be some great inks, there will be some truly awful inks, even between batches of the same ink.

I participated in a discussion at FPN where this came up and it was suggested that Nathan purposely didn't try for 100% consistency among batches. While I can, to some degree, appreciate the idea of liking the variety of character this may give to the ink, I don't think it's at all a good thing. I, like many people shop for ink via the reviews and posted examples (preferably photos) of others, and it's hard enough trying to account for the variations of tint and hue representation online - varying color calibrations of monitors, scanners, cameras etc - without the actual color of ink itself being a moving target.

[TSherbs]

I have been quite satisfied with the Noodlers inks that I have purchased. They came exactly as described, exactly as reviewed (in the thorough reviews on FPN). Not every ink is great in every pen. And, there are dozens of Noodlers inks I have no interest in whatsoever simply because the colors don't please me for one reason or another, or the reviews are underwhelming.

[snedwos]

[QUOTE=Biber;29994]

@SNEDWOS I didn't expand into fountain pens because of Nathan Tardif and his videos, but I am glad they were available as I learned quite a bit from them - along with folks from here and other's. I would say I am a hands on type, and like to know the what and why.

Just my 2 cents.

I'm afraid I have little patience to sit through his videos. If anything they turn me off to his ink even more so. His videos are so long and he talks so slow I just want to shoot myself after 2 minutes.

Oh, that happens to me too! I'm just pointing out that they were a threshold for me. Then I found Stephen.

[JustDaveyB]

I will add my 2c worth. I have lots of Noodler's ink (64 bottles to be exact), they range from the infamous BSB to normal garden variety black. Some of them have their quirks yes La Reine Mauve is a bit clogy for me too. I use a database to track my collection so I rate all my inks vs my pens - suffice to say the more chemically potent and highly saturated Noodler's inks don't get a run in my expensive Pelikans. Like many here I exercise good pen hygiene and no ink stays in a pen for more than 14 days. I have never had a problem with any of my Noodler's inks staining.

[Runnin_Ute]

I have only tried a couple of Noodler's inks - Walnut and 54th Massachusetts. Only bought one (54th Mass.) to date. Walnut just was not my thing. Don't remember what, but something about it just didn't appeal to me. (actually the brown I have tried that I like most is Monteverde Brown- yeah, boring name, but good color)

[Pendragon]

Open source is something Noodler's inks are not, however. Even to the point where he'll remain tight-lipped when someone approaches him asking for allergy advice. The one true horror story I read is from someone who got ink on their hands and came up in a nasty rash. When they contacted Nathan about it to ask about the composition so the reaction could be treated, he refused.

This is the one thing I have read that has bothered me. I don't know how much truth there is to it, I don't know the details of the case. But the person who posted this (on another forum -- not necessarily THE other forum) was exceedingly angry, and if she was right, it seemed pretty unreasonable behaviour. It may have been resolved by now, for all I know.

How many inks are open source? Not any of the commercially sold inks, at least not that I have seen. They would have to be nuts to give up their formulas, which are their bread and butter. People with an allergic reaction do not need to know the ink composition, they need to know what to do if they get ink on their skin, if their kid drinks it, etc. It would the same as is done with some household cleaners and many other commonly found chemical formulations.

I have used Noodler's inks, not a problem. And I'm very happy with my Ahab. Would buy again. And I'm aware of the risks, so I'm careful about hygiene and pen selection. My Vac maaaay get some Apache Sunset one day, but BBK? No way.

BBK is Bad Belted Kingfisher? If so, has it been proven to be problematic for a large number of users?

[Chemyst]

How many inks are open source? Not any of the commercially sold inks, at least not that I have seen. They would have to be nuts to give up their formulas, which are their bread and butter. People with an allergic reaction do not need to know the ink composition, they need to know what to do if they get ink on their skin, if their kid drinks it, etc. It would the same as is done with some household cleaners and many other commonly found chemical formulations.

I'm not sure what you mean. Commercial inks (and paints and household cleaners, &c) have component lists and Material Safety Data Sheets available from the manufacturers as a regulatory and safety matter of course. If you are allergic, and certainly if you are allergic to more than one chemical, you would want to be able to screen products BEFORE you enter anaphylactic shock.

Perhaps you are thinking of the immediate care instructions if the ink is ingested. Things like "Immediately drink a glass of water and call your local poison control office. Do not induce vomiting." In which case, the poison control center checks the component lists and MSDS' and makes a recommendation to you over the phone.

It is also worth pointing out that ink formulations are not secret from anyone except the general public. Many inks are remarkably similar to each other on a fundamental chemical level and are a relatively simple matrix compared to things like natural groundwaters or wines. Anyone who has a professional interest in the composition of an ink can find out its precise make-up for a small outlay of time and money.

Talking about guarding the "top secret recipe" from the like of shadowy "copycat companies" and "Chinese industrial interests" is simply marketing. Consumers love feeling that the product they are buying is rare, luxurious and at the center of an intriguing story.

There is of course something to be said about the need to guard the processes used to manufacture an ink cheaply and efficiently, but this different than guarding the list of components. Key steps like how to produce uniform nano-particles of gold consistently for $XXX/g is worth keeping a lid on, while the fact that your ink uses YYY surfactant or ZZZ dye is not.

Any interested commercial ink company knows precisely what is in the NI line (and PR and MB and ...). Should an ink company come out with something innovative that would incrementally improve a company's inks, they would certainly look at it, but there is a reason that NI inks differ from Pelikan Inks. It isn't accidental.

Each ink meet the right intersection of profit, consumer demand and regulatory acceptance for the parent company. Other inks fall somewhere else on the spectrum that the other companies do not feel is optimal.

Consider:
-Ink that costs too much to manufacture cannot be sold at the price point for a target customer
-Ink that is too high maintenance will frustrate consumers and hurt repeat sales
-Ink that has inconsistent batch-to-batch color will frustrate customers
-Ink that damages pens will result in a large number of warranty claims and consumer complaints, both costing money
-Ink that uses toxic or otherwise prohibited components will not pass import/export regulators
-Ink that ...

This is all part of what separates mainstream pen makers who market ink from boutique ink makers. Mainstream makers want a non-toxic, consistent and low maintenance ink that works well for the vast majority of users. They could certainly turn out a product exactly like the boutique makers or even better, but the problems outweigh the benefits for them to do so.

[blopplop]

Noodler's ROCKS!!! I love it! I currently have about 15 bottles of various kinds.

[MaddyMarcel]

Bulletproof black is my favorite ink. I also have used Luxury blue, Hunter green, Aircorp, Nikita, and Zhivago, and personally, I have never had problems.

[Hez]

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