What's Going on With FPN?

[suzy01]

The more I read about that site on here, the more I think I dodged a bullet by signing up here instead.

Same here :-/

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

[Bzzer]

There used to be a time when there was some informed and interesting comment and helpful advice, good and learned people who were prepared to post, nowadays there are just so many people who say '+1' as a reply or 'I dont know the answer but someone will', others who are aggressive and confrontational or just plain boring.

The idea that I should pay or put up with many ads just to read trash is crazy.

[Kaputnik]

I find that browsing FPN with an ad blocker, despite their complaining, makes their site load considerably faster and has the added benefit of blocking a lot of potential malware vectors.

Sadly, the site is almost unusable without an ad blocker.

You almost make me curious enough to visit there with my ad blocker turned off. Not quite, though.

If I understand how ads would generate revenue for them, I don't think that having my adblocker on makes a difference, as I would not intentionally click on an ad in any case. I could donate, but choose not to, although there is still some good information there.

Anyway, I have nothing against them. I recall that there was a "what the heck is FPG?" thread there some time ago; probably more than once. Some people took the sensible attitude that one can take whatever is good from a site and ignore the rest.

[Jon Szanto]

The thread on FPN that started this discussion has been locked with a comment by ALC3261:

Please Note:-

There is due to be new forum software soon which will address a lot of the problems including those with Ads.

The Moderators are entirely voluntary and make nothing at all from FPN.

The money made from Ads etc just another makes the site break even so nobody is making any money here.

We are not saying much because at the moment there is nothing to say, work is going on behind the scenes and when it is ready we will launch the new software.

Unfortunately, this was the same thing last time: in spite of a world-wide collection of people, many of whom might have expertise in the matter, no input is being solicited. Same as it ever was.

The translation error "makes the site break" is an unintentional/funny bonus element.

[Farmboy]

The thread on FPN that started this discussion has been locked with a comment by ALC3261:

Please Note:-

There is due to be new forum software soon which will address a lot of the problems including those with Ads.

The Moderators are entirely voluntary and make nothing at all from FPN.

The money made from Ads etc just another makes the site break even so nobody is making any money here.

We are not saying much because at the moment there is nothing to say, work is going on behind the scenes and when it is ready we will launch the new software.

Unfortunately, this was the same thing last time: in spite of a world-wide collection of people, many of whom might have expertise in the matter, no input is being solicited. Same as it ever was.

The translation error "makes the site break" is an unintentional/funny bonus element.

What a crock full.

NO ONE IS SAYING THE MODERATORS MAKE MONEY. Why do they keep saying that. I also doubt any one cares if they do.

Unless they opt for different ad services new software will NOT make the craptastic ads go away.

Oddly enough I've not gotten an email or a PM about the thread.

[Pterodactylus]

I also think the moderators (I hesitate to call them moderators, I think censors is a better word) there are mainly attracted by the fact that they can live their mighty power phantasies there and not because of money.

The feeling to be able to punish, rule and censor ordinary members just as they like.

I don´t care anymore as I’m done with that site since quite a long time.

Even ignoring all that, I also think that such a Ad polluted and commercial oriented site, which btw. lives from the valuable content their members provided free of charge (also provided in the past from people which are long gone or banned), investing a lot of time and efforts is not worth to consider being part of that community.

[DaveBj]

The thread on FPN that started this discussion has been locked with a comment by ALC3261:

Please Note:-

There is due to be new forum software soon which will address a lot of the problems including those with Ads.

The Moderators are entirely voluntary and make nothing at all from FPN.

The money made from Ads etc just another makes the site break even so nobody is making any money here.

We are not saying much because at the moment there is nothing to say, work is going on behind the scenes and when it is ready we will launch the new software.

Unfortunately, this was the same thing last time: in spite of a world-wide collection of people, many of whom might have expertise in the matter, no input is being solicited. Same as it ever was.

The translation error "makes the site break" is an unintentional/funny bonus element.

No translation error here. The full phrase was "makes the site break even", which is a legitimate English idiom for "makes it so that the site doesn't lose money".

[Bzzer]

Being a cycnical bastard I usually read between the lines, so when someone says

The Moderators are entirely voluntary and make nothing at all from FPN

My first thought is that Moderators may be making nothing, but what about the Admin?

To pick up on the power trip of some moderators, a friend of mine shared a PM sent to him by The Great Roe which was just downright offensive. His wife had died a year ago and he wanted to know the personal relationship of his daughter and where she was living and that if he didnt give that information within 7 days then he would be banned. As it turned out he knew Wim who was aware of his situation.

[Pterodactylus]

Being a cycnical bastard I usually read between the lines, so when someone says

The Moderators are entirely voluntary and make nothing at all from FPN

My first thought is that Moderators may be making nothing, but what about the Admin?

Just think about what web hosting costs these days, even with a huge amount of traffic and assuming to rent a serious powerful server to host the forum.
And you will come to to the conclusion that hosting such a forum like FPN (even considering that it had a lot of traffic at least in the past) can´t be extremely expensive (no matter what Wim always claimed).

I tried to discuss this topic once (how much money is actually needed to run it) when this whole Ad madness together with paid membership started, but the discussion was choked off immediately.

You don´t have to be Einstein to get an impression what amount of money such incredible huge amounts of Ads fired at the users and visitors (since years) might generate (and normally you are also paid by views, not only clicks) together with the paid memberships (don´t know if they are still there and if yes there are still members who pay) and compare it to hosting offers of serious web Hosters.


And to be also clear.
Hosting a forum especially with a lot of traffic is not for free.
And there is nothing wrong if the owner is trying to cover the costs.
And there is nothing wrong to use also the Ad path to earn some money to cover the costs (and keep memberships free, or do it the other way arround).
Or get a sponsor (or more) for a forum (e.g. Penexchange.de a German Pen forum is sponsored by Pelikan) (most likely the best way to cover the cost if such an arrangement is possible).
But a Forum still has to be attractive for the users, which means you don’t get flooded with (ridiculous) Ads and malware, means also at least for me no “in content” Ads, no video ads, no audio ads, no dubious ads.


Ím really happy that the owner of FPGeeks keep it Ad and Membership free, this is not a given thing.

Also FPGeeks cost money (continuously) but our generous host Eric kept it free for us.

Thanks Eric for this awesome service that you run this forum free of charge and Ads for us!

[AzJon]

What's the most popular Adblock software for MacBooks?

Chrissy, I run two (probably a bit overkill, but whatever). I use uBlock Origins (blocks ads) and Disconnect (used to stop ad trackers). Both of which are free and work well. I forget that YouTube has ads until I watch something on my phone.

A quick check at FPN shows that uBlock Origins caught 34 ads and Disconnect grabbed another 7 (5 ads and 2 google tracks).

FWIW, FPGeeks shows one Google tracker on Disconnect.

[Dragonmaster Lou]

What's the most popular Adblock software for MacBooks?

It all depends on what browser you use. If you use Safari, I can't help you much as I haven't used that on my Mac in ages.

If you use Firefox or Chrome, uBlock Origin is what I'd recommend. You can get it from their various add-on menus. They work in Firefox or Chrome no matter what OS is used under the cover.

[Dhruv]

Just think about what web hosting costs these days, even with a huge amount of traffic and assuming to rent a serious powerful server to host the forum.
And you will come to to the conclusion that hosting such a forum like FPN (even considering that it had a lot of traffic at least in the past) can´t be extremely expensive (no matter what Wim always claimed).

I tried to discuss this topic once (how much money is actually needed to run it) when this whole Ad madness together with paid membership started, but the discussion was choked off immediately.

You don´t have to be Einstein to get an impression what amount of money such incredible huge amounts of Ads fired at the users and visitors (since years) might generate (and normally you are also paid by views, not only clicks) together with the paid memberships (don´t know if they are still there and if yes there are still members who pay) and compare it to hosting offers of serious web Hosters.


And to be also clear.
Hosting a forum especially with a lot of traffic is not for free.
And there is nothing wrong if the owner is trying to cover the costs.
And there is nothing wrong to use also the Ad path to earn some money to cover the costs (and keep memberships free, or do it the other way arround).
Or get a sponsor (or more) for a forum (e.g. Penexchange.de a German Pen forum is sponsored by Pelikan) (most likely the best way to cover the cost if such an arrangement is possible).
But a Forum still has to be attractive for the users, which means you don’t get flooded with (ridiculous) Ads and malware, means also at least for me no “in content” Ads, no video ads, no audio ads, no dubious ads.


Ím really happy that the owner of FPGeeks keep it Ad and Membership free, this is not a given thing.

Also FPGeeks cost money (continuouly) but our generous host Eric kept it free for us.

Thanks Eric for this awesome service that you run this forum free of charge and Ads for us!

Should give you an idea of server costs:

I am also a member of a private torrent tracker, with about 90k active users, 20k torrents, private image hosting, and a private forum accessible under another tab. Server costs every 2 months is €850. No cap on number of users though.

Another tracker with the same features with a 18K user limit pays about £150 per month.

First one only opens it donation for about 6 hours every 4-5 months and still ends up getting enough to pay next 3 server costs. Case of people donating too much.
Second one accepts donations throughout, but mostly ends up getting more than £150 they require. Once they have enough buffer probably they will try to expand a bit.

[Pterodactylus]

Easy young padawan, we are talking about hosting a forum, nothing else, no picture hosting, nothing fancy, just running a forum (even a big one), (I don’t really want to know what kind of “service” you are providing on torrent, ... pictures, movies, software whatever).

Simple plain Webhosting with a couple of TB traffic 100 Gb space and enough permissions to run a forum can be found for about 10€ a month ongoing (Major German hoster)

Cloud Hosting with several TB Traffic from under 10€/month ongoing
Managed servers with several TB traffic from about 35€/month ongoing
Renting a root server (if you really think you need one for fancy stuff) can be found from 40€ a month ongoing.

Hosting a big forum e.g. in the vBulletin cloud costs about 50€ a month according to their website (in case you don’t want to take care of any technical hosting stuff, just running the forum).

I studied computer science and working in IT, so just let us look at the right perspective to the task.

I also know some private owners of small to medium forums, and they can for sure be hosted without a big wallet, just as a hobby.


Of course there is hardly a limit for cost depending on the scope, software, hardware, performance, additional services, traffic, customization, individual developed features, support, availability, bandwidth,..... whatever.... but that is not essential to run a plain pen forum.

[southpaw52]

Why go elsewhere when the best fp community is here.

[Dhruv]

Easy young padawan, we are talking about hosting a forum, nothing else, no picture hosting, nothing fancy, just running a forum (even a big one), (I don’t really want to know what kind of “service” you are providing on torrent, ... pictures, movies, software whatever).

Simple plain Webhosting with a couple of TB traffic 100 Gb space and enough permissions to run a forum can be found for about 10€ a month ongoing (Major German hoster)

Cloud Hosting with several TB Traffic from under 10€/month ongoing
Managed servers with several TB traffic from about 35€/month ongoing
Renting a root server (if you really think you need one for fancy stuff) can be found from 40€ a month ongoing.

Hosting a big forum e.g. in the vBulletin cloud costs about 50€ a month according to their website (in case you don’t want to take care of any technical hosting stuff, just running the forum).

I studied computer science and working in IT, so just let us look at the right perspective to the task.

I also know some private owners of small to medium forums, and they can for sure be hosted without a big wallet, just as a hobby.


Of course there is hardly a limit for cost depending on the scope, software, hardware, performance, additional services, traffic, customization, individual developed features, support, availability, bandwidth,..... whatever.... but that is not essential to run a plain pen forum.

Hi,

I think FPN and fpgeeks both have their own image hosting, so I mentioned it. Please correct me if I am wrong.
As for the content we torrent, no softwares etc. Just animation and manga along with soundtracks, art books etc.

I'm just a mere user on both the sites, but they make all donations and payments details public so we can check how much was donated and how much and when it was paid.

I've used servers from OVH, online.net and oneprovider (I believe a reseller of online.net servers). Mainly for torrenting.
Oneprovider was nice since they gave 1gbps uplink and unlimited bandwidth, and I piled on 100+ Tb of traffic every month.
Only German provider I can think of is hetzner.

Anyway, I don't expect fountain pen forums to generate that sort of traffic, but it gives you an idea of what it may cost to run.

[Farmboy]

I was once told that the high volume of classified ads drove the decision to modify the core board system and write custom software so that managing the classifieds could be achieved. Seems there were people that never posted content but sold lots of pens and used it as a personal market place. If that is true, the sellers should pay to sell and leave the rest of us alone. Can recall buying anything on FPN and I've certainly never sold there.

I suspect that FaceBook now has more traffic than FPN and certainly has more than FPG. There is also reddit which I have yet to look at an then something about a Slack channel that is invite only.

Seems to me that the very thing (content) that made FPN successful and resulted in the pay to play model has ultimately caused a loss in content and active members.

I have no problem with the ads if they are within reason but they are not. The site is allowing capture ads, redirect ads, and now autoplay audio and video ads. Too much. Guests should be encouraged to join to get a reduced ad experience and content providers should be given an ad-free experience for free.

I asked why my thread was closed. I was told that these topics are not to be discussed in public. OK then. I didn't see anything offensive or controversial, just the facts and a bit of a rant on my part. Perhaps a negative thread could be interpreted by new users as a reason not to join?

Back when the monetary issues were coming to a head we had multiple discussion about the future of FPN at Posse meetings. I recall members from little internet companies in the bay area offering help with servers, storage etc. I don't know if it was discussed with FPN admins or died. About the same time Geeks appeared.

I keep hearing how Geeks is the wild west of boards. Frankly I don't see it. Geeks is about as unmoderated as it can be and I rarely see the need for anyone to step in, the threads self correct and everyone moves on.

FB

[AzJon]

I keep hearing how Geeks is the wild west of boards. Frankly I don't see it. Geeks is about as unmoderated as it can be and I rarely see the need for anyone to step in, the threads self correct and everyone moves on.

FB

There are times a moderator would be useful. Our ratio of pedants that insist on being not only right, but 100% the only right answer, is low compared to FPN where everyone is an expert and dissenting (or even remotely different opinions) is met with a certain degree of hostility.

FPN feels like the Good Ol' Boys club and they don't take kindly to new folks in their town.

[Farmboy]

Most of the good old boys club never bothered to show up at FPN. Anyone in that club is an imposter. The real club lets anyone in that wants in.

Best place to play Pens is at a club meeting or a show.

[Pterodactylus]

I was once told that the high volume of classified ads drove the decision to modify the core board system and write custom software so that managing the classifieds could be achieved. Seems there were people that never posted content but sold lots of pens and used it as a personal marketplace.

The situation sounds familiar isn‘t it?

The answer to it obviously wasn‘t the best in the past.

And here it seems that there isn‘t an answer at all as we are since quite a while rudderless.

[amk]

The best place to play pens may be at a show... but in France, we have ONE all year. And for me, it always clashes with another event, which is one of the you-don't-have-to-but-you'll-be-marked-down-on-your-finals-if-you-don't variety. :-(