Water resistance, how important to you?

[Gobblecup]

Wow, so far it seems I’m firmly in the minority for demanding water resistant and archival grade inks. I guess it makes sense why so few ink manufacturers actually cater to this now! 😂

I like water resistant inks as I have had my fair share of mishaps with water. Keep in mind that there is a difference between water resistant inks, waterproof inks and archival inks. I have found that some simple dye inks can be sufficiently water resistant so that you won't lose your writing if the paper gets wet (such as Namiki/Pilot Blue or Blue-Black). JetPens offers an interesting guide to some of these:
https://www.jetpens.com/blog/waterpr...en-inks/pt/829



PS. The rubbing candle trick really works...

I’ve found quite a few Sailor Jentle inks can be water resistant but not waterproof like certain Noodler’s and De Atramentis inks are. I’ve found water resistant is my low bar and waterproof and archival (which usually go hand in hand I’ve found (at least with Noodler’s and De Atramentis)) is my high bar. I’ll journal in water resistant inks but when it comes to more important school notes and other things I want to last for longer periods I go for the waterproof and more archival quality inks. This jetpens resource is awesome by the way, thanks for sharing it!

[azkid]

PS. The rubbing candle trick really works...

That is what I ended up doing after doing a new envelope. I am still going to figure out a water resistant or proof ink to use for checks and envelopes though.

[Gobblecup]

I should add to earlier statements that (in my humble opinion) both faded and water washed writing from any writing instrument, fountain pens included, just doesn’t seem very functional or practical. It’s not so much that what I write is the most important stuff ever written, or even that anyone but myself may ever read it. But, I can’t use ballpoints because of joint pain in my hands that gets much worse with the pressure require for ballpoint writing, and I also hate the way they feel on paper (which is less of a practical thing). Therefore, I demand that my fountain pens and inks perform practically, in part by not being so easily washed or faded as 90% (my guesstimate) of fountain pen inks are. I guess what I’m saying is something like fountain pens should be practical, useful and somewhat hardy even though they are often considered a luxury item nowadays.

I understand some people can’t be bothered to worry about these things. But when it comes to pen maintenance, and the higher maintenance required of most waterproof and archival bulletproof or nano particle inks, I have already long accepted that using fountain pens requires lots of maintenance. To use a little ammonia, and/or flush between every fill isn’t a really big deal to me, I’d do it anyways using low maintenance inks. But of course, to each their own, I wouldn’t want to detract anyone from the fountain pen because of high maintenance inks. For me personally it’s just not a big deal, I know my pens need the TLC to stay happy in my service.

It’s really interesting getting others opinions on this though, please keep them coming!

[Wuddus]

I should add to earlier statements that (in my humble opinion) both faded and water washed writing from any writing instrument, fountain pens included, just doesn’t seem very functional or practical. It’s not so much that what I write is the most important stuff ever written, or even that anyone but myself may ever read it. But, I can’t use ballpoints because of joint pain in my hands that gets much worse with the pressure require for ballpoint writing, and I also hate the way they feel on paper (which is less of a practical thing). Therefore, I demand that my fountain pens and inks perform practically, in part by not being so easily washed or faded as 90% (my guesstimate) of fountain pen inks are. I guess what I’m saying is something like fountain pens should be practical, useful and somewhat hardy even though they are often considered a luxury item nowadays.

I understand some people can’t be bothered to worry about these things. But when it comes to pen maintenance, and the higher maintenance required of most waterproof and archival bulletproof or nano particle inks, I have already long accepted that using fountain pens requires lots of maintenance. To use a little ammonia, and/or flush between every fill isn’t a really big deal to me, I’d do it anyways using low maintenance inks. But of course, to each their own, I wouldn’t want to detract anyone from the fountain pen because of high maintenance inks. For me personally it’s just not a big deal, I know my pens need the TLC to stay happy in my service.

It’s really interesting getting others opinions on this though, please keep them coming!

Valid points throughout.

If I want permanent, I have ballpoints, gel pens, fibre tips, italic fibre tips, fine liners, and if all else fails, a laser printer. I do accept that fountain pens need a little extra care and attention, and a little extra is all I'm prepared to give them.

In truth, all my fountain pens are cheap, and if I screwed up my most expensive one, I'd only be down £10, but that's not the point. In reality, I don't actually need any fountain pens at all, as I can marks on paper a myriad of other ways. To me, they're just fun, and I want to keep it that way. Permanent inks are a level of complexity that I don't need right now. I don't want to worry about them, I just want to enjoy them, which is why I bought cheap in the first place

If I was going to get any waterproof inks, I would use a bow pen (got one already) or a dip pen (not got yet). A bow pen is a doddle to clean, and dip pen nibs are too. All the fun without the worry and headache.

[Gobblecup]

I should add to earlier statements that (in my humble opinion) both faded and water washed writing from any writing instrument, fountain pens included, just doesn’t seem very functional or practical. It’s not so much that what I write is the most important stuff ever written, or even that anyone but myself may ever read it. But, I can’t use ballpoints because of joint pain in my hands that gets much worse with the pressure require for ballpoint writing, and I also hate the way they feel on paper (which is less of a practical thing). Therefore, I demand that my fountain pens and inks perform practically, in part by not being so easily washed or faded as 90% (my guesstimate) of fountain pen inks are. I guess what I’m saying is something like fountain pens should be practical, useful and somewhat hardy even though they are often considered a luxury item nowadays.

I understand some people can’t be bothered to worry about these things. But when it comes to pen maintenance, and the higher maintenance required of most waterproof and archival bulletproof or nano particle inks, I have already long accepted that using fountain pens requires lots of maintenance. To use a little ammonia, and/or flush between every fill isn’t a really big deal to me, I’d do it anyways using low maintenance inks. But of course, to each their own, I wouldn’t want to detract anyone from the fountain pen because of high maintenance inks. For me personally it’s just not a big deal, I know my pens need the TLC to stay happy in my service.

It’s really interesting getting others opinions on this though, please keep them coming!

Valid points throughout.

If I want permanent, I have ballpoints, gel pens, fibre tips, italic fibre tips, fine liners, and if all else fails, a laser printer. I do accept that fountain pens need a little extra care and attention, and a little extra is all I'm prepared to give them.

In truth, all my fountain pens are cheap, and if I screwed up my most expensive one, I'd only be down £10, but that's not the point. In reality, I don't actually need any fountain pens at all, as I can marks on paper a myriad of other ways. To me, they're just fun, and I want to keep it that way. Permanent inks are a level of complexity that I don't need right now. I don't want to worry about them, I just want to enjoy them, which is why I bought cheap in the first place

If I was going to get any waterproof inks, I would use a bow pen (got one already) or a dip pen (not got yet). A bow pen is a doddle to clean, and dip pen nibs are too. All the fun without the worry and headache.

Thank you for sharing your points, they are valid as well. Ultimately fountain pens should be fun!

My cheaper pens are Lamy Safaris and Al-Stars but most of my pens are a bit more expensive so I do get a bit more anal about upkeep. The only pens I’ve ruined were a couple of Noodler’s pens, which I mourned only briefly. I probably should get some cheaper pens as testers for inks, and daily workhorses (I’m afraid to take some of my pens out much). But, I have had the collector bug for years now, with fountain pens and inks. I have one dip pen but I never really use it, I probably should play around with it more often!

P.S. I’ve had my eye on the Wing Sung 3008 for a bit now, will probably pull the trigger soon!

[Wuddus]

Good call on the 3008. I've been having lots of fun with mine. I have wrecked and lost so many pens over the years, that I think I'll be stopping in the shallow end of the pool indefinitely. I only allow the price to have one digit before the decimal point I'm perfectly happy tinkering around like that, but I do appreciate that it would leave many others unsatisfied.

I too have arthritic hands, but not to your level. Extended writing with a ballpoint is tricky for me, but only after a page or so. I am certainly enjoying the lighter touch of a fountain pen. Maybe I too will take a different view in years to come. It certainly is interesting getting a wide spectrum of views too. I've learnt a lot in the past few weeks, and will not doubt continue to do so. I think I'll have the trainings wheels on for some time yet though.

[Gobblecup]

The training wheels are wise, especially on the financial side of things. It’s good to get to know what you like before making bigger investments in any case. It’s great to talk to folks with different or alternative needs and views on writing and understanding why they do things the way they do. I’m going on at least ten years with my fountain pen habit, I still have a hard time narrowing down what I like to just a few pens. I enjoy variety a lot, nib variety, color variety, size, shape, brand, etc. I’m sure you will find what works best for you as well and I wish you the best on your pen journeys!

[KKay]

Gobblecup you are not alone. I also treasure inks that are waterproof, or at least water resistant. I also like to have archival inks on hand as well. I have a couple of journals that I write in, that I want to last. I have a wide assortment of ink. I have found the past year or so, that I would like to add more of these inks to my collection. I like to switch inks in my journal, as I find that visually pleasing. It also lets me know that I came to the end of a particular subject. I only have a few inks that are completely permanent. Most of my inks are for fun, but some are meant to last. I want at least water resistance these days for most of my ink. If it isn't at least recoverable with a little water, I won't use it in my journals anymore.

[Gobblecup]

Gobblecup you are not alone. I also treasure inks that are waterproof, or at least water resistant. I also like to have archival inks on hand as well. I have a couple of journals that I write in, that I want to last. I have a wide assortment of ink. I have found the past year or so, that I would like to add more of these inks to my collection. I like to switch inks in my journal, as I find that visually pleasing. It also lets me know that I came to the end of a particular subject. I only have a few inks that are completely permanent. Most of my inks are for fun, but some are meant to last. I want at least water resistance these days for most of my ink. If it isn't at least recoverable with a little water, I won't use it in my journals anymore.

This is just about how I approach inks these days, I want my journals to be recoverable, and to have archival quality ink on hand. Do you have any ink recommendations for me? I’d be interested in any colors, but I’d love to have an Orange because I don’t have anything on that spectrum that is water resistant. I’m thinking I may have to get De Atramentis Document Ink in Yellow and try mixing it with Red (which I already have) and perhaps dilution solution to get some shading out of it.

[SIR]

For me, water resistance is desirable but not important; as the majority of inks have little water resistance it is not something i think about when choosing a nice colour... and water resistance/tamper proofing can be added to pretty much any ink with a little in-mixing of an appropriate agent

[Gobblecup]

For me, water resistance is desirable but not important; as the majority of inks have little water resistance it is not something i think about when choosing a nice colour... and water resistance/tamper proofing can be added to pretty much any ink with a little in-mixing of an appropriate agent

What agent are we talking about?

[Sailor Kenshin]

PS. The rubbing candle trick really works...

That is what I ended up doing after doing a new envelope. I am still going to figure out a water resistant or proof ink to use for checks and envelopes though.

My checkwriting ink has been Noodler's Bad Green Gator. The only true waterproof ink I've ever seen...at least that particular bottle. Don't even think of putting it into any pen that cost more than $5, though, and prepare for it to eventually turn into shellac.

[KKay]

Gobblecup you are not alone. I also treasure inks that are waterproof, or at least water resistant. I also like to have archival inks on hand as well. I have a couple of journals that I write in, that I want to last. I have a wide assortment of ink. I have found the past year or so, that I would like to add more of these inks to my collection. I like to switch inks in my journal, as I find that visually pleasing. It also lets me know that I came to the end of a particular subject. I only have a few inks that are completely permanent. Most of my inks are for fun, but some are meant to last. I want at least water resistance these days for most of my ink. If it isn't at least recoverable with a little water, I won't use it in my journals anymore.

This is just about how I approach inks these days, I want my journals to be recoverable, and to have archival quality ink on hand. Do you have any ink recommendations for me? I’d be interested in any colors, but I’d love to have an Orange because I don’t have anything on that spectrum that is water resistant. I’m thinking I may have to get De Atramentis Document Ink in Yellow and try mixing it with Red (which I already have) and perhaps dilution solution to get some shading out of it.

I don't know about an orange one, sorry. I have Noodler's-Lexington Gray, Bad Black Moccasin, and Bad Belted Kingfisher. If you go to the Noodler's site, they have a pdf file that tells you which inks will have what properties, or not. I found that USS Texas is archival, which made me happy. (I love that ink and I own it) I have tried Chisholm Trail, and I must get that one day, I love it. I have also tried Texas Live Oak and liked it too, I would love to own it. I also have Sailor-Kiwa guro and love it, it is waterproof. I am not sure if it is archival. I also have tried Sei boku, and really liked that, especially in one pen in particular. I have seen Henry Hudson Blue, and I like it, but I've never tried it.

Many of the GvFC inks I've read are waterproof, or highly water resistant. Aurora-Blue Black has some water resistance, as well as Pelikan-Dark Green. Noodler's-Zhivago, Green Marine and Burma Road Brown have water resistance. These are just off the top of my head. For the Noodler's Warden Series inks, I would only keep them in a pen for a week, flush, then refill. Sometimes I just refill without flushing, but it is best to flush it. (Same thing for Lexington Gray) Don't let those inks dry in your pen, or you will regret it. I also have tried General of the Armies, but it wasn't a buy for me. I liked it but didn't love it. Some of the ink I mentioned is from Dromgooles in Houston. You don't have to keep USS Texas in your pen for a short time, and it is not hard to clean out of your pen.

Oh, and I would only trust Kiwa guro and USS Texas in a more expensive pen. (of those waterproof, and archival etc...) Chisholm Trail and Texas Live Oak might be okay though, that is up to you. I want to try more pigmented inks. I have tried Platinum Classic IG Forest Green. I like it, but I would only put it in certain pens. I would like to try more pigmented and IG light inks. I have Zhivago but it is not archival, but says it is waterproof. I would say it has a lot of water resistance, maybe not totally waterproof.

[Paddler]

Water resistance is an absolute must for my journal entries and commonplace book. Trash inks (those that run when wet) are only used for temporary writing like story drafts and experimental ideas -- things that will be put through the shredder in a few days.Why bother writing things down if they are going to be so fragile that they can't survive a little rain or beverage spill? You may as well do your writing on a computer.

[Gobblecup]

Gobblecup you are not alone. I also treasure inks that are waterproof, or at least water resistant. I also like to have archival inks on hand as well. I have a couple of journals that I write in, that I want to last. I have a wide assortment of ink. I have found the past year or so, that I would like to add more of these inks to my collection. I like to switch inks in my journal, as I find that visually pleasing. It also lets me know that I came to the end of a particular subject. I only have a few inks that are completely permanent. Most of my inks are for fun, but some are meant to last. I want at least water resistance these days for most of my ink. If it isn't at least recoverable with a little water, I won't use it in my journals anymore.

This is just about how I approach inks these days, I want my journals to be recoverable, and to have archival quality ink on hand. Do you have any ink recommendations for me? I’d be interested in any colors, but I’d love to have an Orange because I don’t have anything on that spectrum that is water resistant. I’m thinking I may have to get De Atramentis Document Ink in Yellow and try mixing it with Red (which I already have) and perhaps dilution solution to get some shading out of it.

I don't know about an orange one, sorry. I have Noodler's-Lexington Gray, Bad Black Moccasin, and Bad Belted Kingfisher. If you go to the Noodler's site, they have a pdf file that tells you which inks will have what properties, or not. I found that USS Texas is archival, which made me happy. (I love that ink and I own it) I have tried Chisholm Trail, and I must get that one day, I love it. I have also tried Texas Live Oak and liked it too, I would love to own it. I also have Sailor-Kiwa guro and love it, it is waterproof. I am not sure if it is archival. I also have tried Sei boku, and really liked that, especially in one pen in particular. I have seen Henry Hudson Blue, and I like it, but I've never tried it.

Many of the GvFC inks I've read are waterproof, or highly water resistant. Aurora-Blue Black has some water resistance, as well as Pelikan-Dark Green. Noodler's-Zhivago, Green Marine and Burma Road Brown have water resistance. These are just off the top of my head. For the Noodler's Warden Series inks, I would only keep them in a pen for a week, flush, then refill. Sometimes I just refill without flushing, but it is best to flush it. (Same thing for Lexington Gray) Don't let those inks dry in your pen, or you will regret it. I also have tried General of the Armies, but it wasn't a buy for me. I liked it but didn't love it. Some of the ink I mentioned is from Dromgooles in Houston. You don't have to keep USS Texas in your pen for a short time, and it is not hard to clean out of your pen.

Oh, and I would only trust Kiwa guro and USS Texas in a more expensive pen. (of those waterproof, and archival etc...) Chisholm Trail and Texas Live Oak might be okay though, that is up to you. I want to try more pigmented inks. I have tried Platinum Classic IG Forest Green. I like it, but I would only put it in certain pens. I would like to try more pigmented and IG light inks. I have Zhivago but it is not archival, but says it is waterproof. I would say it has a lot of water resistance, maybe not totally waterproof.

I’m looking into the GvFC inks now, while pricey they aren’t as expensive as my precious Sailor inks. I am trying to figure out which are considered waterproof now, it seems like some are and some aren’t. I did however order some more Noodler’s today, I’ve been wanting more green and brown, so I got #41 Brown and Green Marine. I’ll have to look into the Pelikan dark green. I remember having some of the Texas Noodler’s inks from Dromgoole’s yeaaaars ago, I’m pretty sure I used all of what I had, but I don’t make the trip to Houston too often.


I have tried the Rohrer und Klingner Scabiosa and Salix, but I don’t use them very often, I do have a bottle of each in my rotation, however. I prefer the Scabiosa. And I use Sailor’s Jentle inks a lot, but only find them water resistant not so much proof as they usually leave behind a blue but lose the rest of the coloring when washed. I have Tokiwa-Matsu, Rikyu-Cha, and Miruai (which from what I remember of my old bottle of Zhivago I had years ago is on the same super black-green spectrum).

I’m personally a bit afraid of the warden series! But maybe I’ll try them out at some point. And I haven’t tried Aruroa inks yet but might snag a bottle when I buy my next Optima (probably through Goldspot).

Thanks for suggesting the Aurora and GvFC, and the Texas Noodler’s I had forgotten about!

[Gobblecup]

Water resistance is an absolute must for my journal entries and commonplace book. Trash inks (those that run when wet) are only used for temporary writing like story drafts and experimental ideas -- things that will be put through the shredder in a few days.Why bother writing things down if they are going to be so fragile that they can't survive a little rain or beverage spill? You may as well do your writing on a computer.

Right there with you Paddler, I’m slowly phasing out inks that have no water resistance. I mean, there seem to be plenty of people that want them and will enjoy them more than me. Have you tried De Atramentis Document Inks? What do you think of them? I have a bottle of Yellow on the way, and bottles of Red and Violet, I think I’ll get some dilution solution and a bottle of Black next. They are expensive per ml, but the total lack of smearing and the mixability has me really excited! I wanna make the red a little deeper with black (I hope this will work), and mix up my own permanent orange! With some dilution I hope I can make them shade too.

I should add that the violet spent a week and a half in my Aurora Optima and I never saw any buildup, had no hard starts or flow isssues, and it cleaned out fairly easily. I was really impressed with it. (I did do a flush with diluted ammonia then several with ph neutral water, just to be on the safe side when I finished the ink supply in the piston and changed inks)

[stub]

We have a heavy monsoon season here with epic downpours and occasional serious flooding. Which is one reason why for years I was happy to just use Pilot blue and Pilot blue black so much. I have even once lost nearly every book and music score when I lived in basement apartment and it flooded knee high with water. But now I've branched out a lot with inks and have had a few soaked backpacks ruin notes. I sometimes wonder if I should give away all my inks and just go back to having one red, one black and a couple blues. Ah, simple times.

[Gobblecup]

I never knew there’s a monsoon season in S. Korea, and I’m sorry to hear about the flooding. We don’t have monsoon season in Texas, just really wild weather sometimes, including heavy thunderstorms which can pop up out of nowhere and flash flooding. Most recently for the wild side, a Tornado hit my family’s house here in February of 2017!
You never know what’s gonna happen, but that’s why I like my inks to be on the safer side. Of course, no one has marketed an ink as Tornado proof yet.

[adhoc]

Not important at all. My work notes stay at work and my notes at home stay at home.

[SIR]

For me, water resistance is desirable but not important; as the majority of inks have little water resistance it is not something i think about when choosing a nice colour... and water resistance/tamper proofing can be added to pretty much any ink with a little in-mixing of an appropriate agent

What agent are we talking about?

Add a part of a pigmented or other waterproof ink - obviously the colour of the original ink may be changed, but the waterproof ink will be left behind if washed. Also, if for example a red pigment is added to a black ink, you will then have tamper evidence as well as indelibility, as anywhere the black has been washed will be red!