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Thread: What I've Learned So Far - A Noobs Tale

  1. #61
    Senior Member Sailor Kenshin's Avatar
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    Default Re: What I've Learned So Far - A Noobs Tale

    Quote Originally Posted by calamus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by gbryal View Post
    [snip] ... With Pilot, I always feel like I could buy any pen in their line at any price point and get consistent quality but I don't feel that way with Parker/Sheaffer/Waterman today.
    I agree whole-hearted with you about Pilot. I have no idea how they can make such consistently excellent pens for so little. Of course, their higher end pens are up there in price, but unless I win the lottery I doubt that I'll ever buy one.
    Many lower-end Pilots (Plumix, 78G, Met, Prera, and is it Penmanship?) share a common nib and feed, though the tipping on the nib varies. Maybe that has something to do with it.
    My other pen is a Montblanc.

    And my other blog is a tumblr!


    And my latest ebook, for spooky wintery reading:

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CM2NGSSD

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    Default Re: What I've Learned So Far - A Noobs Tale

    The postie brought me more goodies today, and now I've finally received everything I was waiting for. The 1.5mm Lamy (stamped) nib, and the nail buffers were the contents of today's packaging.

    IMG_20180515_200314.jpg

    IMG_20180515_200128.jpg

    Lessons Learned:

    • A 1.5mm stub nib is wider than I expected. 1.5mm on a rule looks tiny, but a 1.5mm wide flat on a nib looks huge. This might be too big for what I wanted it for. Thankfully it's easier to remove excess material than add it back on.
    • This was the first Lamy style nib that I've removed/exchanged, and unlike other nibs, it sits flush with the front of the section, rather than fits inside. This means that to be secure and correctly orientated, it needs to be a perfect fit on the protruding part of the feed. Mine wasn't. Whether this was a fake Lamy nib, or a genuine nib on a homage feed, the two weren't a great match.
    • Taking a pair of pliers to a nib is twitchy sphincter time. I had to adjust both the width and depth of the folded nib profile in order to get it to sit securely and squarely on the feed protrusion. Thankfully this wasn't too complicated due to the boxy type cross section of the Lamy nibs, and would have been a lot more risky and tricky with a conventional radiussed nib.
    • With the nib securely fixed, the writing was pretty poor. It was inconsistent in line thickness, as if the flat nib end wasn't presented to the paper properly, and was a little scratchy too. Abrasive correction was needed.
    • The nail buffers took a minute of two of faffing with, to realise that I had to rest my hand on one end, and "write" on the other to get the pen angled correctly for tweaking.
    • On these nail buffers, the ink is the ideal lubricant for the abrasive work. Not only is there a built in fluid reserve, but as the ink is always flowing out, unlike if I was adding water first, and particles from the abrasive are kept from getting in between the tines.
    • I learned the value of a loupe. I don't have a particularly strong magnifier, but after removing the sharp corners on the nib, I could see that the tip wasn't entirely square, but at least the tines were aligned, and there were no abrasive particles caught between them. This out of squareness is probably why the stub tip wasn't resting consistently on the paper, and wasn't putting down consistent lines.
    • I also learned a loupe is somewhat irrelevant! It doesn't matter what the tip looks like away from the paper. It matters how it is presented to the paper in my grip. Therefore, I need to dig out my old oil stone, and go some "writing" on that to calibrate the stub to my grip/handling, and then bring it back to the nail buffer to soften the edges. The refining of the non-stub nibs should be a lot easier.
    • Whether or not this is a fake nib, at least the nib has been heat treated. I've done enough metal work in the past to know the difference between softened steel, and hardened. While this is spring tempered, and therefore of a relatively low hardness, it has had some treatment, and wasn't just a bit of bent sheet.
    • Today's most important lesson was don't be frightened or disheartened. If a nib isn't working, fix it. They ere essentially very simple objects, designed to emulate a quill with a built in reservoir. Steel nibs are cheap enough for me to attempt correction on. I have enough knowledge so as not to destroy it instantly, so no need to be frightened of giving it a tweak. Take your time, be sensible, keep it clean, and gradually let the nib take on the form it needs in order to perform properly.


    I haven't completed the tweaks on this nib yet, as I need to dig out my oil stone first. However, I do have a clear understanding of what I need to achieve, and how, and also have the confidence to get stuck in. I doubt I'd have the same confidence with a more expensive nib.
    Last edited by Wuddus; May 15th, 2018 at 01:56 PM.

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  4. #63
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    Default Re: What I've Learned So Far - A Noobs Tale

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Szanto View Post
    Gah! Don't give any thought to that rep board stuff. Be who you are and do it with confidence. All you need to know about how things are going are the people who directly respond to you. Wuddus, you and I view our 'pen life' quite differently, but I celebrate that fact, not run from it. It is only a good thing that each of us finds their own way through all this and all we ask is that no one forces anyone else to behave in some prescribed manner.

    Your 'rep' is solid in your words. Clicking on some button by some anonymous person is meaningless. Keep going.
    Thanks Jon, I celebrate the fact that we approach it from different perspectives too. I was more concerned with understanding why feathers might have been ruffled, and hoping for it to lead to discussion, than being concerned on me losing points on a scoreboard as it were. I'm here to share, not compete, and thankfully it's quite clear that several other folks are too.

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    Senior Member ethernautrix's Avatar
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    Default Re: What I've Learned So Far - A Noobs Tale

    Quote Originally Posted by Wuddus View Post
    I don't have a clue what I'm doing at all. I'm just feeling my way around, and making it up as I go.
    Well, at least you seem clear about what you don't want, and that's also helpful.

    Re: Your later comment about the Lamy 1.5mm nib and fixing it. I had the mental giggles, cos... I used those same tools to tweak one of my Nakaya Piccolos' nibs, which ended up ruining the nib. I could still write with it, and I actually liked the line it laid down, but how it FELT when writing with it -- ugh. Which is why I was ecstatic with my Nakaya "hack."

    I will say this about nibs -- steel, gold -- I have enjoyed many, many nibs, some Hero cheapies to Montblanc limited editions, a wide range, and as long as the ink flow is consistent and the nib is tuned correctly and is a nib size I like writing with and I get the line quality I enjoy... there really is no need to spend huge amounts of money. The money is in the materials and other factors (handcrafting, marketing, packaging, and so on). And that can be just as important. But if it isn't, then there's no reason you (impersonal you) can't have a few or a thousand cheap fountain pens that bring you writing joy.

    Me, I might have been more spendy on pens than you cos I never was spendy on anything else (except travel) -- not watches, not flashlights, not knives, not clothes, not shoes, not purses (well, maybe a little bit on things to carry other things, but not Nakaya-level of spending). But I really liked what you said about not making shopping the hobby. (I might have already mentioned that. I remember thinking it. Heh.)

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    Senior Member ethernautrix's Avatar
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    Default Re: What I've Learned So Far - A Noobs Tale

    Quote Originally Posted by top pen View Post
    I get by with half a dozen cheaper pens from about £10-30 and am careful with the nicer ones. I do see the appeal of being able to drop a nice pen on the pavement and brush it off with not much thought on the matter. But it would drive me insane. I've sold the one pen I owned which was above £100 because I was too worried about scratching it up or dropping it etc.
    To be fair, I have a few Nakayas. I baby those other ones--no wait, I've dropped one and sortv kicked one across a parking lot. When will I learn? it's weird, because I try to be careful, and I consider myself a careful person. And yet, every other pen story, "oh yeah, and that one fell out of my lap when I got out of the car" and "that time I lost a pair of Montblancs in a leather case cos it fell out of my pocket on my short walk to the subway." I do pat myself down more frequently now, in public, especially before leaving a place.

    I sold my cheaper, but great! pens, cos I didn't want to be afraid of messing up my "nice pens." (Aren't all the pens nice, though, no matter the price? A pen that writes how you like is amazing!) I guess I've been subconsciously testing myself on my reaction, at least with this one Nakaya. While I was annoyed with myself for a split second, I was overwhelmingly relieved that the pen didn't break. And now the pen is gaining in wabi sabi with travel scars. In a few years or 20, it'll be this beat-up thing (with a great nib), but I will see all its beauty. (Smiley)

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    Default Re: What I've Learned So Far - A Noobs Tale

    Quote Originally Posted by ethernautrix View Post
    Your later comment about the Lamy 1.5mm nib and fixing it. I had the mental giggles, cos... I used those same tools to tweak one of my Nakaya Piccolos' nibs, which ended up ruining the nib. I could still write with it, and I actually liked the line it laid down, but how it FELT when writing with it -- ugh. Which is why I was ecstatic with my Nakaya "hack."
    I'm confident I can make it work, or even if I do end up destroying it, I'll figure out how to regrind the original nib into what I want. One way or another, one of these two nibs is going to be how I want it

    I'm quite cautious with stuff like this, and don't remove too much material at once. I'm also not a "fix it till it's broke" type person, so I know when to say enough to the grinding. The good thing (in theory) with the nail buffers, is that I should be able to get just the right amount of feedback on it, and not have to polish it until it feels like its levitating. I suspect I'll leave just a tiny bit of tooth on it.

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    Default Re: What I've Learned So Far - A Noobs Tale

    Quote Originally Posted by ethernautrix View Post
    I sold my cheaper, but great! pens, cos I didn't want to be afraid of messing up my "nice pens." (Aren't all the pens nice, though, no matter the price? A pen that writes how you like is amazing!) I guess I've been subconsciously testing myself on my reaction, at least with this one Nakaya. While I was annoyed with myself for a split second, I was overwhelmingly relieved that the pen didn't break. And now the pen is gaining in wabi sabi with travel scars. In a few years or 20, it'll be this beat-up thing (with a great nib), but I will see all its beauty. (Smiley)
    THAT to me is a beautiful pen, and why I only want a few of them. I want my pens to look (and be) faithful companions, not treasured posessions. I love things that look like they've worked for a living. It's like craftsman's hammers or planes or saws, where the wooden handles have worn to conform to the users hand over the years, or the old pair of shoes that you walked a couple of million footsteps in, and loved them so much despite them starting to disintegrate, that you don't know whether to sling them or frame them.

    I hope at least one of my cheap pens lasts long enough to acquire that beautiful "travelled" look. Unfortunately I think ever pen I've ever had that started to acquire that look, got lost or broken somewhere along the timeline. It didn't owe me anything when it did, but it would have been nice if just one of them had survived the journey, and proudly wore the scars to prove it.

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    Senior Member suzy01's Avatar
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    Default Re: What I've Learned So Far - A Noobs Tale

    Quote Originally Posted by Wuddus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by suzy01 View Post
    Very interesting read. I'm a fellow newbie and often enjoy your posts I've had only bad experience with cheap pens so far but I've a Chinese one in the draw I've yet to use so I'm keeping my mind open.

    Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
    Thanks Suzy. Which pens have you tried, and what were the bad experiences? I hope whatever is lurking in the drawer is more successful for you.

    Unfortunately not everyone appears enthralled with this thread. I must have ruffled someone's feathers, as it seems I might have earned my first negative reputation point from somebody for my efforts here...

    I've got two reputation comments in my control panel, one of which is preceeded by a green symbol, and has a positive comment for a post I made in a different thread. The next has a grey symbol, and no comment, for a post I made in this thread. Does anyone know if that's a negative reputation point? If someone has done that for my posts in this thread, feel free to share why you feel I earned that.
    The one I have yet to try is a JinHao X750*(I ordered when I was thinking I would need a body to try out a custom nib). The ones I've not liked were pilot parallel pen (donated by someone else who didn't like it, I'm keeping it because it's such a gusher I think it will be good to use if I need to block in a larger area of a picture one day), and a Tachikawa*Comic Nib extra fine (bought as a cheap punt in search of an ultra extra fine nib). My first fountain pen was a twsbi 700vac which I still use as my only pen but now with a custom nib which is Xxxf. So clueless was I that I stumbled across such a nice pen from a process video on instagram from an artist I like, it was entirely focusing on the nib handling which is what is most important to me and still is. I'm sure if I searched around I could find a more comfortable to use pen but I love the way this one draws now. I only joined up here to search for a thinner nibbed version but it's a very interesting forum. I really like trying new inks but like you I don't want shopping to be the habit, I shop far too easily

    Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

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    Default Re: What I've Learned So Far - A Noobs Tale

    Am I weird that I have both the Pilot Parallel and a Tachikawa manga pen?
    My other pen is a Montblanc.

    And my other blog is a tumblr!


    And my latest ebook, for spooky wintery reading:

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CM2NGSSD

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    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
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    Default Re: What I've Learned So Far - A Noobs Tale

    Quote Originally Posted by Sailor Kenshin View Post
    Am I weird that I have both the Pilot Parallel and a Tachikawa manga pen?
    Your weirdness is entirely unrelated to that fact. So is mine.
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

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    Default Re: What I've Learned So Far - A Noobs Tale

    Having now spent some time reworking the 1.5mm stub in the 3008, I've learned that without trying it out with a range of different inks and papers, I won't really know if I've got it how I want it.

    I also learned that there's two stages to reworking a nib. Resetting, and refining. The resetting that I did on the stub nib was to make figure eights and infinity signs, with the pen held at the natural angle, but the hand held rigid. This lets me get the nib nice and flat/square to my natural writing angle. Refining, is all in the fingers, so the pen angle rises and falls, and rotates slightly too, which softens the edges and corners, and takes away the scratchiness of the nib. This might not be "correct" procedure, but it worked well for me.

    I also learned just how light a touch is needed to made a big difference. You don't need to work it heavy to make a noticeable difference very quickly.

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    Default Re: What I've Learned So Far - A Noobs Tale

    So here is where my journey has led so far.

    IMG_20180519_151003_1067_800.jpg

    I must say that I am very happy with this set up. In terms of simple function, and comfort, and working as it should, this combination of pens ticks all the boxes for me. They might not win any beauty pagents, but it cost me around £10 for all three of them (not counting the nib swap). All I need to keep them inked is bottles and standard international cartridges, and short of loss or major mishap, I'll be quite content for a good while with these.

    My humble collection of inks are keeping me entertained so far too, but I think that in time those will dwindle in number too. Having 8 different colours is nice, but unnecessary for me. I think 6 main inks is probably where I'll end up. That's two for the pocket pen, four for the letter writing pen, and six for the daily scribbler.

    I'll still use the surplus pens and inks though. In fact two of them are currently fuelled with Scooby's Mystery Ink #17. The next step for me I think is paper, but I'll be sticking to the shallow end of that pool too. I have no need of ultralight costly Japanese offerings. I'm no artist, and my handwriting is little more than simply legible, so there's no point in exploring the higher priced offerings. It'll still look a mess when i've finished with it anyway

    I have my eye on Clairefontaine and Black'n'Red notebooks, and will likely be writing letters of off-white copier type paper, or possibly the occasional Basildon Bond. The nearest thing I have to a journal is an A4 wirebound notepad that I'm scrawling recipes in. So unless my needs change, I think I'm all set for the foreseeable future.

    IMG_20180519_155219_800_600.jpg

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    Senior Member Sailor Kenshin's Avatar
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    Default Re: What I've Learned So Far - A Noobs Tale

    Black 'n' Red is pretty good at a reasonable price. So is Miquel Rius, but that's a softer paper. No sheening, little shading. Yet, I'm still a big fan because of the spiral binding and choice of grid or lined...and the edge of each page has a color stripe.
    My other pen is a Montblanc.

    And my other blog is a tumblr!


    And my latest ebook, for spooky wintery reading:

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CM2NGSSD

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    Default Re: What I've Learned So Far - A Noobs Tale

    I've not heard of that one. I'll be sure to have a look at it.

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    Senior Member Sailor Kenshin's Avatar
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    Default Re: What I've Learned So Far - A Noobs Tale

    Quote Originally Posted by Wuddus View Post
    I've not heard of that one. I'll be sure to have a look at it.
    Here you go:

    Main site.

    They have some understated designs as well as the wilder ones. Last time I looked, they also had hardbounds. Don't tell anyone, but I've been using the grid paper for pen pal letters.
    My other pen is a Montblanc.

    And my other blog is a tumblr!


    And my latest ebook, for spooky wintery reading:

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CM2NGSSD

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    Senior Member azkid's Avatar
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    Default Re: What I've Learned So Far - A Noobs Tale

    Haven't tried the black n red yet. I have been using Apica notebooks for bullet journal at work . They work pretty well but one had inconsistent paper. And I decided I wanted more pages per book. I like my Clairefontaine 1952 better --a bit nicer paper and perfectly consistent -- and ordered an A5 for bullet journalling after May.

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    Default Re: What I've Learned So Far - A Noobs Tale

    Just ordered a few paper items to sample something different.

    I've ordered a couple of pocket notepads, one Rhodia and one Clairefontaine. One A4 side punched Rhodia pad which I'll use with a ring binder as a kind of evolving book of ideas, plans, and wishlists. Finally, to tip it over into free shipping, I've ordered a small sketchpad. I don't know if I'll use it as such, as I'm not much of an artist, but I'd rather add that than pay for shipping. It'll come in useful for something.

    I've decided to lay off ink purchases for a while, and see what I think to these different paper types first. That might sway me as to what inks I might want.

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    Default Re: What I've Learned So Far - A Noobs Tale

    The lessons continue...

    I received some Rhodia pads, a Clairefontaine pad, and a Goldline sketchpad today.

    Lessons Learned:

    • A smooth paper really shows up the inadequacies/imprecision of a badly ground stub. I might need to take the Wing Sung nib back to the stones. A coarser paper pulls the italic form from it, but a smoother paper is not getting full nib width contact to generate full line width.
    • Clairefontaine paper makes pens seem to write drier than Rhodia and other papers. I need to be more selective of pens and inks with this paper than with my other pads.
    • Don't assume that a sketchpad will automatically be unsuitable for inks.
    • A pocket pen is easier to misplace... found it eventually.
    • My pocket pen doesn't like my pocket pads... needs investigation.
    • It seems a coarser paper is more forgiving of nib grinds generally. My Tasche iand 3008 with self-ground nib are not the only pens being temperamental on Clairefontaine.
    • This paper lark is more complicated than I expected, and I expected better performance on premium paper with the same pens/inks, but it appears the premium paper is a lot fussier than bog standard A4 refils. That's mildly irritating.

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  30. #79
    Senior Member azkid's Avatar
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    Default Re: What I've Learned So Far - A Noobs Tale

    Interesting findings!

    I noticed that a couple hard-starting nibs of mine work a lot better with crappy copy paper than the good stuff.

    I presume the surface of crummy paper is less regular and smooth and that random paper fibers are able to wick ink from the nib more readily.

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    Default Re: What I've Learned So Far - A Noobs Tale

    That's pretty much my thoughts on the issue too. However, it does lead me to rethink why I would want to pay more money for more problematic paper...

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