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Thread: What I've Learned So Far - A Noobs Tale

  1. #81
    Senior Member azkid's Avatar
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    Default Re: What I've Learned So Far - A Noobs Tale

    Sure does give one pause. (Cause for pause?)

    Possibly with the right ink and a fine point, the feathering will be minimal. Seems worthy of experimentation.

    I wonder what everyday paper was like 50-100 years ago. I don't have any old family letters I can look at unfortunately.

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    Senior Member Sailor Kenshin's Avatar
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    Default Re: What I've Learned So Far - A Noobs Tale

    Quote Originally Posted by azkid View Post
    Sure does give one pause. (Cause for pause?)

    Possibly with the right ink and a fine point, the feathering will be minimal. Seems worthy of experimentation.

    I wonder what everyday paper was like 50-100 years ago. I don't have any old family letters I can look at unfortunately.
    It was designed for fountain pens. My mother's journals and letters prove that, if nothing else. Fifty years ago, maybe even 70, fountain pens were still commonplace; everyone used them. Maybe even dip pens (hotel registers, bookkeeping).

    I actually like vintage paper best of all. This is why Miquel Rius suits me so well. It's softer, but still very amenable to fountain pen use. Also paper from India, where fountain pens are still common.
    My other pen is a Montblanc.

    And my other blog is a tumblr!


    And my latest ebook, for spooky wintery reading:

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CM2NGSSD

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    Default Re: What I've Learned So Far - A Noobs Tale

    I can now see why the triumvirate of pen, ink and paper must be so synchronised. But which is the logical foundation on which to base the others? In one way it makes sense to start with the page, but if an expensive paper needs an expensive pen, while a cheap paper doesn't, then the expensive papers are not for me.

    Cheap (very cheap) pens and inks, have worked well for me thus far, so I'll be choosing papers that work with those. I don't mind tweaking a nib slightly, but I won't have my hand forced into buying a new one. Rhodia seems to be working well for me so far, and only the Clairefontaine is too smooth and/or inabsorbent to draw the ink effectively. This is the reason I've just started out with cheap pads from the relevant lines. I'm not going to start buying great swathes of different papers though, I'll just work with what I have till I run low, and try something else next time. As to the problematic papers, if I have to set a troublesome pad aside for ballpoint use, so be it.

    If it isn't already obvious from my previous posts, in many ways I am quite a simplistic creature. I don't want to sample everything on the market, just settle down with a few things that work well for me, and let my attentions shift from the tools, to what is being created with them. It just seems that establishing that initial set of tools is a more convoluted task than I initially anticipated.

    I'll get there in the end. I'm not going to be flummoxed by a pen, ink and paper. They should be there to help solve the problems, not BE the problem.

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    Default Re: What I've Learned So Far - A Noobs Tale

    Quote Originally Posted by Wuddus View Post
    ... I am quite a simplistic creature ...
    I disagree! You've already put far more insightful thought into this than I have in my (mumble) years using and accumulating these tools. And that's a good thing.

    Was just thinking about the pen/ink/paper conundrum over in the thread on feedback. I suppose I put the burden on the pen because that's the instrument. I don't want ink and paper - the 'consumables' - to be a distraction. If I stumble on a combination that works for me, I stick to it. As you say, the primary aim is to create.

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    Default Re: What I've Learned So Far - A Noobs Tale

    Quote Originally Posted by catbert View Post
    I disagree! You've already put far more insightful thought into this than I have in my (mumble) years using and accumulating these tools. And that's a good thing.
    Thank you From my perspective, I'm just bumbling my way through, and gibbering about it as I go

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    Senior Member azkid's Avatar
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    Default Re: What I've Learned So Far - A Noobs Tale

    In my limited experience, I suspect that the combos that work far outnumber those that don't.

    I have only a dozen inks, two papers, and a dozen pens. I haven't tried all the combos but most have worked fine.

    For the occasional problem combos, I had options: nib tweaking or using a drier or wetter ink, or a different pen.

    I guess I am just mapping out what works and changing one thing at a time when trying something new.

    I don't plan to collect paper. I like trying new pens but probably I will end up with just a few that I use regularly. I do like trying different ink samples for giggles but am happy with my current black, brown, and blue for daily use.

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    Default Re: What I've Learned So Far - A Noobs Tale

    Quote Originally Posted by azkid View Post
    In my limited experience, I suspect that the combos that work far outnumber those that don't.

    I have only a dozen inks, two papers, and a dozen pens. I haven't tried all the combos but most have worked fine.

    For the occasional problem combos, I had options: nib tweaking or using a drier or wetter ink, or a different pen.

    I guess I am just mapping out what works and changing one thing at a time when trying something new.

    I don't plan to collect paper. I like trying new pens but probably I will end up with just a few that I use regularly. I do like trying different ink samples for giggles but am happy with my current black, brown, and blue for daily use.
    We appear to have very similar tastes.

    My three main pens, and my humble array of inks, are pretty much perfect for my everyday writing needs. I do consider myself very fortunate to have settled on them so quickly and cheaply. Rhodia seems to be working well for me, and I've looked into the Apica notebooks you've mentioned - they seem well priced, attractive, and with decent page counts too. I will give those a try at some point. However, between Pukka Pad and Rhodia, I have everything covered except letter writing paper, but I've got enough of what I've been using so far to see me through to autumn/winter, so there's no dire rush there.

    What may have crept into my earlier posts this evening, is a little disappointment over one of the four new pads. I don't like buying something and discovering (too late) it doesn't suit my needs. Unfortunately, that's a necessary part of the learning curve. Everything I've bought will get used somehow, and worthwhile experience is gained from those that don't work as desired.

    I have several months worth of paper here already (new and old), plus probably two years of ink, and a surplus of pens. It's very possible that my preferences may evolve over the next few months anyway, and I just need to rein in my eagerness for exploration a little. I have no immediate needs which can't be satisfied with what I already have.

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    Senior Member Sailor Kenshin's Avatar
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    Default Re: What I've Learned So Far - A Noobs Tale

    Anyone nearby you could trade papers with? Though I tend to be like you, Wuddus...if it's a pad pf paper towels, out come the pencils, ballpoints and gel pens.
    My other pen is a Montblanc.

    And my other blog is a tumblr!


    And my latest ebook, for spooky wintery reading:

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CM2NGSSD

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    Default Re: What I've Learned So Far - A Noobs Tale

    Quote Originally Posted by Sailor Kenshin View Post
    Anyone nearby you could trade papers with? Though I tend to be like you, Wuddus...if it's a pad pf paper towels, out come the pencils, ballpoints and gel pens.
    I don't really have much to pass on, save for a part used cheap Clairefontaine pad I'll crack on with what I've got. There are a couple of pens which behave with it, plus as you say there's always other pens or mechanical pencils, so I'll get use out of it.

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    Default Re: What I've Learned So Far - A Noobs Tale

    IMG_20180602_200115_800_600.jpg

    Dip pens arrived today, and I discovered the whole experience is really not what I expected. I'm not entirely sure what I did expect, but whatever it was, it wasn't this. This is a whole new sphere of learning, and I'm glad I started out so cheap, because I don't think it's suitable for a project I was planning. I'm not disappointed, just a tiny bit wiser.

    It will all get used, and no doubt I will learn from it and have fun with it. I just hadn't anticipated how different it would feel to use from everything I've played around with before.

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    Default Re: What I've Learned So Far - A Noobs Tale

    Dip pens don't always work well with fountain pen ink. And they may have to be cleaned before first use (it's been so long...!)

    I like the worksheet, though.
    My other pen is a Montblanc.

    And my other blog is a tumblr!


    And my latest ebook, for spooky wintery reading:

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CM2NGSSD

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    Default Re: What I've Learned So Far - A Noobs Tale

    Quote Originally Posted by Sailor Kenshin View Post
    Dip pens don't always work well with fountain pen ink. And they may have to be cleaned before first use (it's been so long...!)

    I like the worksheet, though.
    I am using Diamine's drawing ink, but like the complete noob I am, I hadn't prepped the nib. It was probably still covered in a film of factory oil or whatever, so I'm just crawling through youtube and discovering how much of an idiot I am

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    Default Re: What I've Learned So Far - A Noobs Tale

    Quote Originally Posted by Wuddus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sailor Kenshin View Post
    Dip pens don't always work well with fountain pen ink. And they may have to be cleaned before first use (it's been so long...!)

    I like the worksheet, though.
    I am using Diamine's drawing ink, but like the complete noob I am, I hadn't prepped the nib. It was probably still covered in a film of factory oil or whatever, so I'm just crawling through youtube and discovering how much of an idiot I am
    Not an idiot; I must have used dip pens for years before I read somewhere they need cleaning.
    My other pen is a Montblanc.

    And my other blog is a tumblr!


    And my latest ebook, for spooky wintery reading:

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CM2NGSSD

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    Default Re: What I've Learned So Far - A Noobs Tale

    I don't mind calling myself an idiot, I wear my noob badge with pride

    I have a lot of playing around to do with this, both in terms of pen handling and ink management. It's a new learning curve, and I'm just discovering how little I know. I've never been ashamed about being clueless about something. Without that you don't accept new knowledge, and you just start blaming the tools.

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    Senior Member azkid's Avatar
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    Default Re: What I've Learned So Far - A Noobs Tale

    I didn't know they needed cleaning either. I got my kid a box of old Esterbrook nibs. Guess I will be doing some cleaning.

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    Default Re: What I've Learned So Far - A Noobs Tale

    Quote Originally Posted by azkid View Post
    I didn't know they needed cleaning either. I got my kid a box of old Esterbrook nibs. Guess I will be doing some cleaning.
    I wrongly assumed everything would just be plug and play. The ink was beading and blobbing, and being totally unmanageable. I figured I must be doing something wrong, and headed off to the tube. Sure enough, it was operator error. I'll be giving one of the nibs a thorough clean tomorrow, and hopefully I should get better results.

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    Default Re: What I've Learned So Far - A Noobs Tale

    Today's lesson was probably the most important so far.

    Don't absent mindedly get your fountain pen confused with your vape pen!

    Some lessons you don't want to have to learn more than once...

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    Default Re: What I've Learned So Far - A Noobs Tale

    I was looking online at a couple of pens today, wondering what was next... I guess I finally learned how addictive they are.

    No more!

    I went to my pen pot, and found all these pens inked up.

    IMG_20180606_024407_edit_edit.jpg

    Plus there's another 3008 drying after being flushed out

    Plus there's two more spare 3008s in a drawer

    Plus five spare Baoer 388s to come

    Plus a Parker Vector set with three nib sizes

    Plus a dip pen with a few different nibs

    Plus all my other types of pens

    ENOUGH! Behave yourself, Wuddus!

    Realistically, I'm highly unlikely to ever need to buy another fountain pen. That's zero to excess in less than six months. Even if I'm really clumsy with a couple and wreck them, lose a couple, and give a couple away, I'll still be good for a few inks and nibs on the go at once, plus spares in the drawer. However, including the 388s that aren't here yet, that's less than £50 for the lot! I'm delighted with that result.

    Sixteen pens is far too many, but some of the spare will end up in the hands of others (friends and family) as "starter pens". I put that in inverted commas, as some of these aren't starters at all - they're finishers as far as I'm concerned - and made the other pens I was looking at online today seem rather uninspiring in comparison.

    The journey isn't over though, anymore than a hike is finished just because you've found the right boots. I'll gradually meander my way through inks and paper, and what I can achieve with them. I look forward to many years of putting scuffs, scratches, and general wear and tear on my new companions.

    I wonder how long it will take me to wear out my first nib...
    Last edited by Wuddus; June 5th, 2018 at 11:21 PM.

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    Default Re: What I've Learned So Far - A Noobs Tale

    Ok, more lessons learned, and this might be the closing update for this thread:

    Pens are not lego
    I tried fitting a comic G nib to a Jinhao X450, and it didn't work. After some attempts at tweaking it, I pretty much destroyed the feed. Good job I have spare pens, eh? Thankfully, that one was one of my least favourite, so I can discard it without remorse.

    Flex is of no benefit to me
    This isn't just "sour grapes" from the failed mod attempt. I tried dipping that pen, and also dip pens, and it's really not interesting me at all. I like to just write, rather than "draw" letters, and I prefer the feel and look of what is produced by a firm nib. It suits my needs far better.

    I'll stick with Diamine
    Thanks again to Scooby for letting me partake in Mystery Inks #17,18 & 19. It was fun and a privilege to try out some new stuff, but I didn't find any traits which make me want to stray from Diamine, which is pretty much the lowest cost option in the UK. In fact my favourite of the three mystery inks was actually made by them. I'll keep it cheap and simple, and stick with Diamine Inks for the foreseeable future.

    I'm really glad I never bothered with vintage pens
    As established above, flex doesn't interest me, but neither does the brands or fancy materials, or handmade nature, or any of the other stuff that seems to get folks excited about them. Bladders seem to be a liability, so do some of the body and feed materials used from what I've read, and I've no interest in fixing stuff up beyond smoothing a nib. Others here seemed to think I would find some other interest or benefit from them, but I'm really not seeing it. I certainly don't want to dissuade others from going that route, but there's nothing about them that appeals to me. I nearly succumbed to peer pressure once or twice, but on balance I think I was wise to refrain and divert the beer vouchers elsewhere.

    I don't qualify as a pen geek
    I'm really glad I revisited fountain pens and indulged in a little exploration. I really like the pens I've settled on, have enjoyed trying out different things, and don't regret getting the ones I didn't gel with. They were part of the learning curve. I'm still enjoying using fountain pens, but am not excited by them. I've no desire to pursue the exploration any further. They are fun writing implements, but I just grab a pen, write with it, and put it back in my pocket or pen pot. Minimal emotional involvement. I've got all the pens I want, plus oodles of spares, and will never need to buy another. No interest to try new inks, nor refine my handwriting, or buy other accoutrements. I've already got everything I'll ever need.

    Right now, I've got four pens inked, others waiting patiently in the pen pot, and unused spares in the drawer. I've got half a dozen inks that I'll replenish when they're empty. Maybe the spare pens will be used if I lose or break one of the others, or maybe they'll be gifted to someone who shows interest. Who knows? Aside from using my favourites for my usual daily scribbles though, I think my fountain pen journey has pretty much come to an end. It was a fun trip, and nice to spend a bit of time here with you all, and I might even pop back in from time to time, but I don't think I'll have much of interest to share. Thanks for letting me share my thoughts and findings on my mini-quest, and for sharing your perspectives and opinions with me along the way. I'm off to go and simply enjoy using them now.

    Happy hunting, happy scribbling, and happy sketching.

    All the best
    Wuddus.

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    Senior Member calamus's Avatar
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    Default Re: What I've Learned So Far - A Noobs Tale

    Quote Originally Posted by Wuddus View Post
    I was looking online at a couple of pens today, wondering what was next... I guess I finally learned how addictive they are.

    No more!

    I went to my pen pot, and found all these pens inked up.


    IMG_20180606_024407_edit_edit.jpg

    Plus there's another 3008 drying after being flushed out

    Plus there's two more spare 3008s in a drawer

    Plus five spare Baoer 388s to come

    Plus a Parker Vector set with three nib sizes

    Plus a dip pen with a few different nibs

    Plus all my other types of pens

    ENOUGH! Behave yourself, Wuddus!

    Realistically, I'm highly unlikely to ever need to buy another fountain pen. That's zero to excess in less than six months. Even if I'm really clumsy with a couple and wreck them, lose a couple, and give a couple away, I'll still be good for a few inks and nibs on the go at once, plus spares in the drawer. However, including the 388s that aren't here yet, that's less than £50 for the lot! I'm delighted with that result.

    Sixteen pens is far too many, but some of the spare will end up in the hands of others (friends and family) as "starter pens". I put that in inverted commas, as some of these aren't starters at all - they're finishers as far as I'm concerned - and made the other pens I was looking at online today seem rather uninspiring in comparison.

    The journey isn't over though, anymore than a hike is finished just because you've found the right boots. I'll gradually meander my way through inks and paper, and what I can achieve with them. I look forward to many years of putting scuffs, scratches, and general wear and tear on my new companions.

    I wonder how long it will take me to wear out my first nib...
    I begin to understand why you've drawn the line at not spending more than £10 on a fountain pen... if in fact you've not crossed that line by now. Or have you crossed it? What do you do when a pretty little thing with a gleaming nib catches your eye, but it's priced at 11 quid? Or 12 quid?
    Last edited by calamus; August 4th, 2018 at 10:00 AM.
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