Inks and fade resistance

[MattiasW]

In the few tests I've seen many common fountain pen inks faded in daylight, some even faded when they were kept in a darker environment. In one test I saw pictures from, some inks were totally gone after < 6 months of daylight. I guess most who write journals and such will be ok if not exposed in light to much (when in a notebook), but if I my next drawing is a success and I sell it, I don't want it to fade if I hang it on a wall.

When I discovered this, I bought an iron gall ink that I read was permanent and that I've seen at least one retailer list as "fade resistant". Turns out it is not. "permanent" in this case means waterproof (which is the only thing the manufacturer states) and the retailer had probably made the same assumption as I had. So permanent or water resistant does not equal fade resistant. The ink I have is Diamine Registrars, but from what I guess this is the same with all iron gall inks (?). Also, most of the iron galls keep a hint of the color (blue for example).

In my search for fade resistant black ink, the alternatives that have been suggest to me so far is...

• Noodlers Blacks (I've been looking at Heart of darkness)
• Platinum Carbon Black
• Pelikan Fount India (my current ink)
• Sailor Nano Black (with the name Kiwa-guro)
• DeAtramentis Document black

Anyone have thoughts on these or any other suggestions?

I just recieved a bottle of the Pelikan Fount India the other day, which I have just started using. It is a "kinder" version of India ink though, so I will need to clean the pens good. When I get paid next time I plan to buy one of the others, possibly from some other country here in europe. I've only been looking for black ink so I don't know about other colors.

By the way, since I don't plan to hang my notes on a wall I don't mind writing with other inks I love taking notes with Diamine Registrars and other colors.

[Pterodactylus]

I don‘t know if anybody here can answer your question (I canˋt).

The inks are just not made to be fade proof when exposed to direct sunlight, because this is not a common requirement, like for art supply colors where you often get infos about the light stability of the color (at least the good ones).
And even there the light stability of different colors (within the same product line) is often quite different.

I guess the best answer I have, is to frame your art so the glass protects it from UV radiation, additionally not expose it to direct sun light.

And if not exposed in direct sun light, the stability of most colors is quite good.
At least the ink pictures my son and I made last even without a frame years without noticeable fading.

For normal writing not exposed to light (e.g. in a notebook) fading is normally not a real topic.
Except some in-stable ones, like (at least I heard this several times) Noodlers Baystate Blue.

The vast majority of my inks (and I have quite a lot) show no fading at least since a couple of years (since I started to hoard them) in notebooks.

If you want to be on the save side even with direct sunlight exposure I would recommend to use a dip nib with India ink.

In my experience the Rohrer & Klingner ones “Ausziehtusche Schwarz” and “Zeichentusche Schwarz” are top notch (with and without Schellack), blackest black, exceptional behavior, 100% waterproof and razor sharp line definitions, for sure stable for at least decades or more.

R&K also has light resistance infos in their website regarding the light resistance of the different colors.

You will not find a comparable ink using a fountain pen.

[Gobblecup]

I am in love with the water permanence of De Atramentis Document Inks, but I’m having trouble finding definitions for how UV/Sunlight resistant they are. On the De Atramentis website they describe the inks with a “Lightfast” rating, however, what that means I’m still trying to understand. https://www.de-atramentis.com/docume...-ink--928.html

As for Noodler’s, I’ve seen several people do independent tests before on the Bulletproof/Eternal inks, they are designed to not fade or get destroyed by UV/Sunlight, and the tests I’ve seen show that they live up to the claims made by Noodler’s. Nathan Tardif claims to have left them out in the Arizona sun to bake “over many months (as well as heat lamps, ageing ovens, biological attacks in moist conditions – Hurricane Katrina situations for example – among many further tests…)“ and they held up to it. You can read about the Bulletproof/Eternal qualities here on their site. http://noodlersink.com/noodlers-ink-properties/

Edit: I also decided to look up if Heart of Darkness is listed as Bulletproof/UV resistant on Noodler’s site, you have to scroll down to the bottom of the page to see the 4.5oz bottles, but yes, it’s listed as being Bulletproof/UV resistant! http://noodlersink.com/noodlers-ink-...ir-properties/

As for my thoughts on Noodler’s, I’m in the middle of the road, some people love them and others hate them, but you can’t paint the whole brand with a single brush stroke. Each ink is endowed with different properties, and it takes reading about them, reading reviews, and comparing properties to know how they will behave and what to expect. In my opinion some are excellent inks and others are better labeled as novelty experiments in ink. I’ve only had one Noodler’s Ink I didn’t like, that was Mata Hari’s Cordial, it wasn’t purple but it was pink (way off from the swabs I saw), it didn’t behave well on paper (spread like crazy), and it stripped my TWSBI piston of lubrication right after greasing it, it did this twice. It’s the only ink I’ve dunked down the toilet, I didn’t want to send it to anyone and be to blame for breaking a piston (mine was so stuck it unscrewed from its housing before it would move down the barrel). It was from the UK series, and it’s particularly odd, I would avoid it in anything but an eyedropper. I’ve used dozens of other Noodler’s inks without problems.

[Jon Szanto]

Two very brief thoughts:

1. I never spend a lot of time in them, but there have been a number of threads/test over at FPN regarding fading. IIRC, Amberlea Davis did a number of test with many inks, doing A/B test with duplicate samples both stored darkly and exposed to sunlight. Anyway, a search in the ink forums for "Fade" could be useful.

2. I don't know how it would meet your needs as it isn't black, but my all-time fave IG ink is ESSRI (Ecclesiatical Stationery Supplies Registrar's Ink) - simple Google on ESSRI will get you to their site. Small English operation that has only a couple of products/supplies but that ink has been in use for official church (and other) documents for a good while. It is possible to watch it turn dark and while I use it with the same precautions for any IG ink, I've never had issues. Worth your consideration.

[pw1224]

Noodler’s Kung Te Cheng is fade resistant but it’s not black. It’s blue-ish/purple-ish. I think it looks very blue but your mileage or bottle may vary.

I like the KtC more than I like Heart of Darkness. Again, YMMV.

[MattiasW]

Thanks folks, I feel like I'm on the right path then. I wish the Noodlers and Platinum were more availeble here, luckily we have online shopping

The Pelikan Fount India I'm using now feels wet in my TWSBI 580 with F nib and gives a broader line that I'm used to, and dry in my Lamy Safari with M nib where it also has problem starting. The experience with other inks have been the opposite. Strange. I'm thinking that the seal of the cap matters, and that it dries a bit with the Safari nib.

One more question: I've tried small samples of Noodlers Heart of darkness and Noodlers Black that a friend sent me. I think they smelled weird, any thoughts on that (I guess the samples could have gone bad)?

By the way, here is a link to a blogpost I found with test (not scientific though) with inks, showing the difference after 6 weeks and 5 months in windows, compared to in notebook.:
http://hudsonvalleysketches.blogspot...stness%20tests

[JulieParadise]

When in doubt conduct your own test.

I do one each month: At the beginning of the month I write down a little list with all my inked pens + inks in them -- twice. One exemplar goes into my journal (I start a new little DIY booklet in my Midori Traveler's Journal each month) where it will kept shut from then on, the other sheets is taped to my SSO facing window. New entries into my currently inked line-up are added to both lists + date. At the end of the month I stash the window sheet next to the other one in my cahier and can directly compare the ones exposed to light to those kept dark, sometimes even comparing both to a new swatch if the pen has the pen still has the same ink in it.

This takes about 5-10 minutes each month and is in no way scientific, but it often surprises me which inks fare well and which fade into oblivion after even days sometimes.

Hint: Turquoises are often weak as are light greens and oranges, reds and pinks. One of the most reliable inks I regularly use is J.Herbin Perle noire and Rohrer & Klingner Blau Permanent. Pigment inks (e.g. Platinum Carbon Black), of course, are nearly indestructible.

[Pterodactylus]

Fount India is not a bad ink with great water resistance, I also use it now and then, but what I do not like is when drawing with it that with heavy washes often you can get some grey clouds washed out from it, not much but can disturb on light colors.

[MattiasW]

Fount India is not a bad ink with great water resistance, I also use it now and then, but what I do not like is when drawing with it that with heavy washes often you can get some grey clouds washed out from it, not much but can disturb on light colors.

That's great to here, thanks.

I have tested it a bit. I was going to do a lot of drawing this weekend but other parts of life got in the way I'm hoping I will get something done tonight.

[suzy01]

I draw in a sketchbook so cannot comment on the light fastness issue but I love de atramentis black document ink for its waterproof without smear quality. I found noodlers heart of darkness surface smeared when adding watercolour which was disappointing. I look forward to hearing more about the fading issue of these inks since I'm unlikely to get a chance to test them out myself (I have to draw on my commute to work since I never have any other time either &#129315

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