Music nibs - Pilot or Sailor?

[jar]

Thanks all.
I've had a look at the F-C but it looks just a little bit too wide for me I'm afraid as I'm wishing to use it for daily writing cursive.

The Sailor 21k sounds temping as the expressiveness without being too obviously wide is what I'm looking for, but perhaps not so wet as to guzzle ink too quickly. There haven't been many experiences with Sailor in this thread so it's very welcome.

I know what you mean ethernautrix about the cheating, but I suppose it was for the reason mentioned in post 16 as that's what I keep on reading. You may prefer the SU nib because it's not as wide as the music nibs but it's sharper.

I would have to rate the Pilot SU nib as without a doubt the least interesting, least expressive, least enjoyable of all of my stub nibs. To label it as boring would be overselling it I fear.

[Medieval]

Is it because it's said to be sharp?

[jar]

Is it because it's said to be sharp?

If that was addressed to me, it is because I have so many stub nib pens that are truly superb and so the Pilot stub is mediocre at best. If I had not used so many really great stubs I might have found it really nice but compared to a Sheaffer Fort Madison stub or Aurora stub or Montegrappa stub or even just a Montblanc "B" or wider nib the Pilot stub is simply boring.

[Jon Szanto]

If that was addressed to me, it is because I have so many stub nib pens that are truly superb and so the Pilot stub is mediocre at best. If I had not used so many really great stubs I might have found it really nice but compared to a Sheaffer Fort Madison stub or Aurora stub or Montegrappa stub or even just a Montblanc "B" or wider nib the Pilot stub is simply boring.

This is why individual responses, with regard to their content, are so much more meaningful than a tally of the number of people who say "yeah, I like that". Trying to come to a decision on a piece of technical gear - which this is - cannot be done as a popularity contest but only by weighing the relative merits of the opinions given. Whether or not you agree with a person like jar, you can see that he has broad experience (and broad nibs) and is able to compare the items under discussion with a good degree of expertise. This is the kind of response that is helpful.

[Medieval]

If that was addressed to me, it is because I have so many stub nib pens that are truly superb and so the Pilot stub is mediocre at best. If I had not used so many really great stubs I might have found it really nice but compared to a Sheaffer Fort Madison stub or Aurora stub or Montegrappa stub or even just a Montblanc "B" or wider nib the Pilot stub is simply boring.

This is why individual responses, with regard to their content, are so much more meaningful than a tally of the number of people who say "yeah, I like that". Trying to come to a decision on a piece of technical gear - which this is - cannot be done as a popularity contest but only by weighing the relative merits of the opinions given. Whether or not you agree with a person like jar, you can see that he has broad experience (and broad nibs) and is able to compare the items under discussion with a good degree of expertise. This is the kind of response that is helpful.

One person's opinion on it's own, no matter how much experience they have, is meaningless. Simply because their opinion reflects their tastes, not mine nor the majority nor even an accurate one.
Also, I asked jar earlier in post in post 10 to expand on his reasons for his opinions, but I've not heard anything more from him on the matter.

Is it because it's said to be sharp?

If that was addressed to me, it is because I have so many stub nib pens that are truly superb and so the Pilot stub is mediocre at best. If I had not used so many really great stubs I might have found it really nice but compared to a Sheaffer Fort Madison stub or Aurora stub or Montegrappa stub or even just a Montblanc "B" or wider nib the Pilot stub is simply boring.

Yes, sorry, I didn't bother to quote because you were the last person to reply.

[dfo]

What majority? I have never experienced any noticeable favoritism towards Sailor or Pilot music nibs. In fact, I have only heard the lauding of Platinum music nibs over the other mentioned brands.

I know that you are new to the forum, but Jar and Jon are legit. If you are not interested or desire to receive opinions or experience, why start this thread.

[Gobblecup]

I think that it’s somewhat condescending to make a post saying one person’s expertise is more helpful than everyone else’s, regardless of how prolifically they post or how specific their expertise may be. While yes a range of experiences with different nibs in the same style might be more helpful, that doesn’t mean the person reviewing those nibs shares the particularities of those they are talking to. I think the OP is entitled to their option to look for a variety of opinions and experiences. Maybe I’m taking things the wrong way, but it seemed like a tag team declaration that one opinion/experience trumped all others and that doesn’t come off in a very helpful way. Especially when Jar didn’t say exactly what about the Pilot nib was mediocre except saying it was.

[Medieval]

What majority? I have never experienced any noticeable favoritism towards Sailor or Pilot music nibs. In fact, I have only heard the lauding of Platinum music nibs over the other mentioned brands.

I know that you are new to the forum, but Jar and Jon are legit. If you are not interested or desire to receive opinions or experience, why start this thread.

Listen, do you see "Platinum" mentioned anywhere in the title of this thread? If not, please stop trying to make me consider a pen which I'm neither interested in nor have I asked for any opinions on. If you're not interested in being helpful, then go elsewhere if you don't mind.

[dfo]

I did not want to highjack this thread, but really? I never weighed the expertise of any members in this forum against the OP. Please reread my post.

The op was asking for opinions, received some opinions he/she/they did not like, and then judged it as meaningless.

I think that it’s somewhat condescending to make a post saying one person’s expertise is more helpful than everyone else’s, regardless of how prolifically they post or how specific their expertise may be. While yes a range of experiences with different nibs in the same style might be more helpful, that doesn’t mean the person reviewing those nibs shares the particularities of those they are talking to. I think the OP is entitled to their option to look for a variety of opinions and experiences. Maybe I’m taking things the wrong way, but it seemed like a tag team declaration that one opinion/experience trumped all others and that doesn’t come off in a very helpful way. Especially when Jar didn’t say exactly what about the Pilot nib was mediocre except saying it was.

[Jon Szanto]

While yes a range of experiences with different nibs in the same style might be more helpful, that doesn’t mean the person reviewing those nibs shares the particularities of those they are talking to. I think the OP is entitled to their option to look for a variety of opinions and experiences. Maybe I’m taking things the wrong way, but it seemed like a tag team declaration that one opinion/experience trumped all others and that doesn’t come off in a very helpful way. Especially when Jar didn’t say exactly what about the Pilot nib was mediocre except saying it was.

You have misjudged my commentary to a great degree. I tried to take pains to explain that I didn't want the OP to favor the nib I was mentioning, but to only give it due consideration. I am seeking to broaden the pool of data that the OP is using to make their choice. The fact that jar, whom I have known on forums for a number of years through agreements and disagreements, was only coincidental. That said, his comments showed a knowledge of not only the items in question but other nibs beyond that. That shows me an understanding not only of the individual respective nibs but also the technology (if you will) behind the entire category. Of course, having read the forums for a number of years and knowing his input, I already knew him to be a savvy owner and user of these writing instruments, and I have a lot of respect for his wisdom and experience. Which leads to:

I think that it’s somewhat condescending to make a post saying one person’s expertise is more helpful than everyone else’s, regardless of how prolifically they post or how specific their expertise may be.

Yeah, ok, whatever. Condescending? Please. It simply makes sense to give weight to an information stream that is of higher content, better s/n than the average response. If I go to a pen forum and ask advice about pulling a section, I might very well get some guy who has resacced a half dozen Esties telling me what to do (because he loves to share his thoughts) and I might very well get one of the reputable repair people who frequent some of these places, who have removed thousands of sections on Esties all the way out to the most problematic pens.

You seriously aren't proposing that both of those responses should be given equal weight, are you? Does my valuing the 2nd de-value the 1st? (No, it doesn't). No, it isn't condescending in the least to suggest that there are people who know more than I or you or others on some particular topic and that it might be a great thing to Really Listen To That Commentary if you are making some kind of decision. Yeah, I think that makes a great deal of sense and there is no judgemental attitude attached to it whatsoever.

[Jon Szanto]

One person's opinion on its own, no matter how much experience they have, is meaningless.

I seriously hope you never have to consult an oncologist. Good day to you.

[Gobblecup]

If that was addressed to me, it is because I have so many stub nib pens that are truly superb and so the Pilot stub is mediocre at best. If I had not used so many really great stubs I might have found it really nice but compared to a Sheaffer Fort Madison stub or Aurora stub or Montegrappa stub or even just a Montblanc "B" or wider nib the Pilot stub is simply boring.

This is why individual responses, with regard to their content, are so much more meaningful than a tally of the number of people who say "yeah, I like that". Trying to come to a decision on a piece of technical gear - which this is - cannot be done as a popularity contest but only by weighing the relative merits of the opinions given. Whether or not you agree with a person like jar, you can see that he has broad experience (and broad nibs) and is able to compare the items under discussion with a good degree of expertise. This is the kind of response that is helpful.

Saying “THIS IS THE KIND OF RESPOSNE THAT IS HELPFUL” makes it seem as if all other contributions to the thread were unhelpful and you weren’t even the OP so I don’t know why it was something you had to point out. Except to solidify that you thought everyone else commenting was inexperienced. It is entirely condescending. It makes it seem as if you know that every other poster in this thread DOESN’T know what they’re talking about. I’m not going to go into what experience I have or don’t have, I’ve handled plenty of stub nibs in my time. I simply feel you could be a little less of a irate fellow if you really do want to help new members and curious explorers of the fountain pen world and the others who wish to contribute to their experiences. If you can’t see how your landguage comes off then oh well, it’s a waste of time arguing about it, there aren’t enough voices on these forums or any as it is.

[SIR]

Thread went south, and not in a good way, quickly; obviously OP has preset/determined criteria and that's their prerogative but... civility, open mindedness, and respect for other's particular judgment - particularly when specifically requested - should prevail, right?

[SIR]

Relax and have a caipirinha; that's what i'm doing .

[Gobblecup]

Also we’re not talking about expert fountain pen repair, we’re talking about nib preferences.... So why bring up those who have repaired thousands of pens? I felt that the OP was being ignored and others (myself included) demeaned, and I said something. People don’t need a PhD in fountain pens to participate.

[Gobblecup]

Relax and have a caipirinha; that's what i'm doing .

That actually sounds like a great idea.

[SIR]

Relax and have a caipirinha; that's what i'm doing .

That actually sounds like a great idea.

Your good health!

[Jon Szanto]

It is entirely condescending.

If I felt like showing you condescension, you would very well know it. I have not.

Relax and have a caipirinha; that's what i'm doing .

I've nursed a halfway decent Malbec part of the evening and now it's time for sleep. Have a good tomorrow!

[ethernautrix]

I would have to rate the Pilot SU nib as without a doubt the least interesting, least expressive, least enjoyable of all of my stub nibs. To label it as boring would be overselling it I fear.

This piques my interest even more, as I'm not looking for overt line variation. Over the years, I've enjoyed trying other pen friends' stub nibs, but I've learned that I like them while I'm trying them and not so much during extended writing sessions. So maybe Pilot is a good choice for me. (Also, I prefer hard nibs to soft and black ink to RAINBOWS! So perhaps I'm tempering the colors of my life with dull choices in pens and inks.) *Dog tap-dancing in sequined pants and top hat emoji*

[ethernautrix]

One person's opinion on its own, no matter how much experience they have, is meaningless.

I seriously hope you never have to consult an oncologist. Good day to you.

Dude.

C'mon.