Choosing a nib width

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Okay, here's another in my series of topics based on questions only a terminally stupid person such as myself would ask.

I am wondering about the factors that go in to a person's choice of nib width. Is the width determined by the writing size? The style of script? Or is it the other way around, that the writing is determined by the nib width?

In asking this I note that quite a few people favour double or even triple broad nibs. Now, this is not intended as a criticism, but I have found that if I use such a monster nib then my handwriting starts to look like it was done using a Sharpie or a fat crayon. And on a standard page the number of words I get per line decreases quite significantly, almost to the point where following the meaning of a sentence requires too much back and forth eye movement.

Italic nibs, while often broad, are different, inasmuch as an italic script can be tall and thin.

I am excluding calligraphy here because to me that is mainly a drawing art rather than a writing exercise.

Oh, also, I note that tastes change over time. What generally drives that?


Okay, shoot (metaphorically).

[Jon Szanto]

It isn't a stupid question at all, and it can be a difficult decision (at least if you don't want to have a lot of pens of various tip sizes).

In my case, a bit of it has to do with being left-handed and always trying to work hard to be legible. I tend to not use F or XF pens (with just a couple of exceptions that must be phenomenal nib setups) because they tend to dig in, etc. So when I first started using fps for writing, I most always tended to a M nib with a nice round ball. While in college I started doing music copying and in addition to calligraphy (dip) nibs, I started using some inexpensive Sheaffer 'italic' nibs (also their version of a calligraphy pen). I became enamored as to have even a bit of stub/italic could help my hand have a bit of character in spite of the left-orientation.

Fast forward to when I started really zeroing in on nibs and a perfect example: like many people I picked up a few Esterbrook pens and an assortment of nibs. I especially enjoyed writing with the 2314-F and -M "relief" nibs, which are basically a stub with a little oblique. When I decided to get my first custom ground italic nib (from Mottishaw at the LA pen show) I took along the 2314-F I was using and said "I want it exactly this wide". I think it is around 0.4 or 0.5mm in width. For any critical choice of nibs, if I'm describing it to someone, I choose to measure the tip instead of the line it produces, because that is the only measurement that won't vary with ink or paper, as the written line will.

I don't know how well that answers, but it has taken me a few years and now I know the profiles of the nibs I like, in various forms, as well as specific optimal weights of pens and girth of sections. It is only this year that I'll plan on my first bespoke pen. If nothing else, my experience has validated my own gradual growing of a collection of pens, which allowed me to try a wide array and find my sweet spots, and now I'm gong to be in the process of letting a lot of them go and returning to a smaller number of pens that perfectly suit me. That goes for the nibs, of course.

[dfo]

I tend to value variety and I alter my script based on the pen and nib.

I get the most compliments when writing with a EF/PO nib and it seems to help turn my handwriting into legible script. That said, I thoroughly enjoy writing with a BB, though I can barely read my own handwriting. I am also hooked on this vintage Lamy 27 medium, which is flattened out like a stub. I guess my point is that there are some nib widths (EF) that improve my writing style and other widths (BB and vintage nibs) I enjoy writing with more.

Edit:
For me, I adjust my script based on the nib width (e.g. smaller nib: smaller script).

[ethernautrix]

I've always preferred F and EF, even with ballpoints. The joy when I discovered the orange-barrelled Bic Accountant Fine!

By the time I started using fountain pens regularly, I had amassed hundreds of ballpoints and felt-tips (pens and markers, of many, many colors). My preference was clear: Fine. With some dabbling in the EF waters. Western grade typically.

Notebooks came in three rulings: college, wide, and narrow. (Blank, or no lines, isn't a ruling, and grids were special SCIENCE! notebooks and notepads. Dots hadn't been invented. Probably.)

Pretty sure I adjusted my handwriting to fit the ruling. And that was my habit until I entered a particularly skint period. Since I had a lot to vent (nested failures) and not a lot of money, I doubled down on the line spacing by writing smaller.

Thus was my small handwriting habit established.

It amuses me to open a notebook from, say, the mid-90s and see how "big" my handwriting was. Big, meaning tall and spaced out, not thick.

I continued the habit out of economy, filling up notebook after notebook. I can't imagine how many more notebooks I would have (to shred, ha!) had I maintained my bigger handwriting.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Interesting. It is hard to write small letters with a wide nib, but considerably less hard to write large letters with a finer nib. The question that leaps (for the moment) is does anyone write large with a fine nib?

[Wuddus]

I want whatever I've written to not look like it was done with a ballpoint, both in terms of thickness and colour. I also want the nib to do justice to the colour of the ink. For me, that tends to mean thicker nibs, particularly when writing something, that is meant to be read by others.

For letter writing, that's usually a 1.1 to 1.5mm italic/stub. The slight line variation helps my writing look a little better too. For everything else, a M nib or F/M nib is enough to show the ink colours off, but without using more paper than I need to. I have no nibs less than 0.35mm, and have no yearning for one. My writing has always been fairly large, so 0.4 to 0.5mm nibs work well for me. The finer nibs would likely leave my writing looking a little gaunt.

I also like wetter nibs. On a shading ink, I predominantly want the richer colour, with just the occasional highlight of lighter tone. I don't like a drier ink that only pools occasionally, as much as I do rich lines with occasional highlights.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

So, when using the wider nibs, what would you say is the average height and width of your lower case round letters?

[Wuddus]

So, when using the wider nibs, what would you say is the average height and width of your lower case round letters?

Depends on the nib/ink/paper, but just measuring something I wrote yesterday, my lowercase "e" is roughly 3.5mm high and wide. That does vary somewhat, and my handwriting isn't particularly uniform (though still legible)

[Empty_of_Clouds]

And would your writing be that size if you used a finer nib?

[Wuddus]

Writing freely on an A4 sheet, yes it probably would - maybe slightly smaller. I can write smaller if I need to, which is why my daily scribbler and pocket pen are M and F/M respectively. I have a tiny Rhodia 3"x2" pad in my pocket right now, and the lettering in there is no less than 2mm. My natural free flowing handwriting does tend to be on the larger side though.

[Kaputnik]

I've tried different sizes of normal symmetrical nibs, some italics, including a couple of left obliques, and a stub or two. I'm glad to have tried a variety, as I wouldn't know what I prefer, otherwise.

But now that I have that experience, my broad nibs sit largely unused, as do the italics, obliques, and stubs. My sweet spot for a nib width is the Pilot FM, fine medium, although I can go as narrow as a Pilot extra fine, or as wide as a typical JoWo medium.

As for what drives this, my handwriting is on the large size, when it has the room; I favor unlined paper that doesn't fence me in. But I still prefer a relatively fine line at any size of writing, as it seems to improve precision and legibility, and I am sometimes constrained to write small. On the other hand, extra fine nibs, if not exactly scratchy, tend to have more feedback than I like (although not without individual exceptions).

On the third hand, some of my medium nibs (including both Japanese and German mediums, and one special regrind) are beautifully smooth, and leave a fine enough line on most papers.

As for style of script, I write a serviceable enough standard cursive that probably started as Palmer method back in elementary school but has taken on various adult eccentricities. Although sometimes I enjoy the swoops and flourishes on certain letters, or line variation where that emerges naturally with certain nibs, I'm not really trying to be stylish. The most important thing is to get the words down on paper legibly. For that, the nib choices I've already indicated work best for me.

[Sailor Kenshin]

Any and all nibs: italic, Ef, F, M, B, fude....and whatever else I might have forgotten. Discovered I like them all depending on my fleeting, everchanging moods, and my handwriting magically changes to accommodate each. A fact which surprised me.

Bring 'em on.

[penwash]

Any and all nibs: italic, Ef, F, M, B, fude....and whatever else I might have forgotten. Discovered I like them all depending on my fleeting, everchanging moods, and my handwriting magically changes to accommodate each. A fact which surprised me.

Bring 'em on.

This is my experience too. Although I agree that blobby BBB nib is less appealing to me, but when it's BBB with a stub or italic characteristics, then it has the potential to become my favorite. Good discussion question, David, not a stupid one at all.

[AzJon]

I have a range of nibs and agree that the super broad nibs look like writing with a crayon/sharpie and for that reason will only consider broader nibs that have been stubbed.

I write just as fluidly with my Masuyama fine-italic as I do with wider nibs (although, I do draw the line at a western medium by and large). With a finer nib, my handwriting adjusts accordingly, but end up looking like the cramped writing of a serial killer. Broader nibs force my hand to go a bit larger, which for simple page-long correspondence can be nice to maintain brevity and show off whatever ink I'm using.

i don't recall where I heard it, but I remember someone telling the story that their dad used to work in a pen shop (or at least a shop that sold many pens) and the "right" size for a person to write with was the size where they could write at a normal speed and have a distinct opening on their "e". If the loop of the "e" collapsed, the width was too broad.

I also seem to recall that broad (or wider) nibs are/were largely marketed as "statement" or "signature" nibs. Pens that you took out for important business signings so you could have a bold John Hancock-esque signature on the page.

[stub]

I have 3 main applications and find pens/nibs that fit those applications.

By far, the vast majority of my pen use is academic work. This consists largely of reading and note taking, on 7mm lined paper. For this I like a good old fashioned boring firm round M or F nib. You know, precisely the nib everyone (seemingly) thinks is boring and bad-mouths (oh, it has no flex, oh it is only semi-maxi tuesday flex, oh look at that nail boo hoo). HARD MEDIUM ROUND. Boring ink too please. haha.

Since I am writing and reading and my eyes are not the best, I prefer a pretty good M nib and no pens with narrow or difficult sweet spots. Honestly, I think I would buy a Kugel nib if I could but the nib like found on a Sheaffer Snorkel is really excellent for me, the upturn at the end and the unbroken line from barrel to tip, like a pencil. If the nib is too bold and my 'e' loops start to close up, it is too fat.

For lecture notes that I have to read at a lecture or podium I like sometimes a little bit more. The Platinum 'B' nib (more like a fat M to me) is excellent as is the M on my Parker Duofold (huge for an M).

If I am writing without reading and I can keep my eye just on the page and write freely, like when writing a letter, then the small army of italics and stubs come out.

Music. I do music by hand sometimes. I have been a life long pencil user but as the eyes age I do more and more directly in ink, even sketching and goofing around or teaching lessons. For that I have my (rarely used) XFs, and bunch of Esterbrook nibs (9312, 9324, etc.) and Sheaffer Nononsense nibs.

A couple nibs for fun stuff (a music nib, an Omas double sided nib, etc.) & yes I do have a couple flex nibs, but they are for fun and, strictly speaking, unnecessary.

--

honestly, like 90% of my application calls for bone stock "boring" hard M nib. If I threw everything away and just kept one black ink and one blue ink (and maybe one red for markup & grading) and a Sheaffer M nib Balance or Snorkel or whatever. My workflow would hardly be interrupted at all.

I do suit-up for work and for that I don't rock a vintage pen (my preference). I don't trust the caps to stay on. For work I usually do a modern pen with a trustworthy cap (Platinum 3776, Pilot 912, Sheaffer Prelude, etc.). The vintage cuties will ride in a pen case in my bag away from my shirt and jacket, some don't leave the desk b/c they are too wet to even travel in a bag).

[suzy01]

Not a silly question at since since it prompted such an interesting discussion. Unfortunately I cannot comment on this too much as I never write anything 🤣 I can say, that when I switched nibs from the standard twsbi ef to my custom Xxxf I found that my writing naturally went smaller and I had to concentrate more to write bigger when writing my ink names on my sketchbook test page (see the last two)

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

[Lady Onogaro]

I don't think I have a broad nib in my collection. Well, I do have two Chinese pens from Birmingham Pen that are supposed to be oblique broads, and I got them because they were inexpensive just to try. Well, I tried them, and I don't use them. I mostly use fine nibs with a couple of exceptions. I do like using the Pilot medium nib and the JoWo medium nib. The rest of the time I use the JoWo stub or Masayuma SIG nibs in medium.

My handwriting is pretty small, so when I use broad nibs, the loops and o's get filled in.

[catbert]

Another interesting question. Not stupid at all.

I started at school with EF and F and wrote bigger and messier than now. My handwriting got smaller as I tried to be ’neater’. (I know, should have slowed down instead.) These days I write small with a range of nib sizes. Staying inside the lines of a Hobonichi Techo, I get 9-10 words per line with an EF nib and 6-7 words per line with an OBB, which is as broad as I go. (I have vintage OB/OBB which measure about the same as a Lamy 1.1 stub at the tip but write slightly wider with flex/wetness.) So, some adjustment of writing size for nib width, but not much. In some ways a reverse correlation between choice of nib width and writing size over time.

Re changing taste: experience is a factor. I like more different things as I try more different things. Stubs made no sense to me until I learned they make my scrawl look more intentional. EFs make it look more haphazard but I enjoy their precise feel.

If/when I’m ready to order a custom pen, maybe I’ll try to pin down the writing qualities I find most pleasing, balancing aesthetics and writing experience. For now, I enjoy each unique pen as it comes.

[innerlight]

thanks for asking this question! interesting read. I myself ... am trying to find the right size for me... I go from EF, F , M, B.

Depending on the paper... I like the broad for headers... and the ef for numbers when I do quotes or calculations... so I carry a couple
"cough" fountain pens to work. Only 1 in my office that uses fountain pens. all in all... still trying to find that sweet spot...

[dneal]

For work, I use F or EF for taking meeting notes or writing on crappy and absorbent copier paper. At home, I use my own “daily grind”, which is usually a .6 or .7mm stub/italic.