Feathering and Bleed: Dip Pen vs Fountain Pen

[RuiFromUK]

In the past I have practised copperplate calligraphy which requires paper that does not bleed or feather as a flexible nib is a must for that form of writing.

For my needs the type of paper is more important than the type of pen be it an old classic fountain pen like one from Mabie Todd's (Swan, Blackbird, Swallow, etc.) or a dip pen with a flexible nib.

[Wuddus]

I've now resigned myself to the fact that this project rules out the cheaper offerings available, and I need to pursue items which are specifically sold as suitable for fountain pens. I have seen some which look perfect, so I'll maybe grab one to try out later in the year.

Thanks to everyone for your input on this, it has been most helpful.

[AzJon]

I honestly have very good success with Rohrer & Klingner IG inks, both the Salix and Scabiosa, on cheap paper. If you are worried about nib tarnish, cruise fleaBay and pick up a fixer-upper Sheaffer with a gold nib. Most can be found in the $50 range and are absolutely solid pens. Even the repairs are usually cheap and easy (make sure its a lever or touchdown filler as the pump fillers are a pain in the rear). The R&K inks are very dry, so not the most pleasant writing experience, but nothing scratchier than, say, a graphite pencil.

Speaking of: Using a pencil is seriously the most efficient (and cheap) way to store information on paper for longevity. The graphite particles end up in the paper and aren't going to go anywhere unless someone erases them, of course.

[calamus]

As for paper, there are sketchbooks available (unruled, however) that use "acid-free" paper, which is considered archival. Some of them are too toothy for fountain pen use, but Strathmore makes one with a fine tooth and Bienfang with a pretty smooth "medium tooth," both of which work nicely with fountain pens. The paper is pretty heavy, so bleed-through is not an issue, and there's no discernable bleeding with most inks with the finer toothed papers. I've found both at Staples, a 5 1/2 x 8 Bienfang for $5.99 and a Strathmore the same size for $7.99. I believe they have about 100 sheets. They make them in larger sizes too. Cheap paper deteriorates badly, getting yellow and brittle after a few decades, especially the pulp papers.

[azkid]

Interesting to know. I have samples of both of those inks inbound.

I keep feeling like there must be some kind of paper that is tolerable and cheap out there.

I was at Staples office supply store today, thought of this thread, and picked up a 70pp, college ruled, Egyptian-made, poly cover notebook for $3 and tried my currently inked pens on it. Just for grins.

Inks behaved surprisingly well on this stuff. Now, it is no Clairefontaine, being lightweight paper and not as nice a finish but not bad.

In case it is of interest ...



Bleeding was intermittent with Lamy Blue-Black, tolerable with the rest. Diamine twilight writes dry for me; there wasn't enough ink to bleed



Show through was worst with Sheaffer Black, Take-sumi, and Lamy Blue-Black. The others showed least with the others, but this is still thin paper so I'm not sure about using both sides.

To my great surprise and chagrin, Sheaffer Skripsert, which usually feathers more than a pillow fight in a henhouse on everything I have tried, was actually tolerable on this paper.

Anyway hope this is of interest.

[Wuddus]

I honestly have very good success with Rohrer & Klingner IG inks, both the Salix and Scabiosa, on cheap paper. If you are worried about nib tarnish, cruise fleaBay and pick up a fixer-upper Sheaffer with a gold nib. Most can be found in the $50 range and are absolutely solid pens. Even the repairs are usually cheap and easy (make sure its a lever or touchdown filler as the pump fillers are a pain in the rear). The R&K inks are very dry, so not the most pleasant writing experience, but nothing scratchier than, say, a graphite pencil.

Speaking of: Using a pencil is seriously the most efficient (and cheap) way to store information on paper for longevity. The graphite particles end up in the paper and aren't going to go anywhere unless someone erases them, of course.

Thanks for the input Jon, but unfortunately it's not applicable to me. I won't cough up more than £10 for a pen (I know this might sound illogical to many members here). This may change it time, but it is very unlikely.

[Wuddus]

As for paper, there are sketchbooks available (unruled, however) that use "acid-free" paper, which is considered archival. Some of them are too toothy for fountain pen use, but Strathmore makes one with a fine tooth and Bienfang with a pretty smooth "medium tooth," both of which work nicely with fountain pens. The paper is pretty heavy, so bleed-through is not an issue, and there's no discernable bleeding with most inks with the finer toothed papers. I've found both at Staples, a 5 1/2 x 8 Bienfang for $5.99 and a Strathmore the same size for $7.99. I believe they have about 100 sheets. They make them in larger sizes too. Cheap paper deteriorates badly, getting yellow and brittle after a few decades, especially the pulp papers.

A Goldline sketchbook arrived here yesterday, and I did a bit of testing on the back page. I was very surprised how well it behaved with my pens. I didn't know about the embrittling issues with time though, so thank you for that.

[AzJon]

I honestly have very good success with Rohrer & Klingner IG inks, both the Salix and Scabiosa, on cheap paper. If you are worried about nib tarnish, cruise fleaBay and pick up a fixer-upper Sheaffer with a gold nib. Most can be found in the $50 range and are absolutely solid pens. Even the repairs are usually cheap and easy (make sure its a lever or touchdown filler as the pump fillers are a pain in the rear). The R&K inks are very dry, so not the most pleasant writing experience, but nothing scratchier than, say, a graphite pencil.

Speaking of: Using a pencil is seriously the most efficient (and cheap) way to store information on paper for longevity. The graphite particles end up in the paper and aren't going to go anywhere unless someone erases them, of course.

Thanks for the input Jon, but unfortunately it's not applicable to me. I won't cough up more than £10 for a pen (I know this might sound illogical to many members here). This may change it time, but it is very unlikely.

Of course! No worries there. I posted before in another thread about IG inks being used with all sorts of nibs and the R&K inks didn't kill the steel nibs. I've also used DeAtrementis Document ink in a Jinhao 159 in the past for signing wedding certificates. Also works well, but the document ink tends to have some flow issues, or at least it did for me.

Edit: Oh, and one of my favorite Sheaffers was picked up for 13USD and a few extra bucks in repairs. You never know the deals you can find!

[Wuddus]

I'm gradually tiptoeing towards this project, and placed an order today for some inks. I've stuck with Diamine, but their drawing inks line. Ultramarine, English Red, Sepia, Black, Emerald Green, and Gold should be arriving next week. I'll be getting a cheap dip pen or two, and a sample journal to tryout soon. Supposedly, all the inks should all be waterproof. I'll not be too upset if the inks fade a little over the years.

[calamus]

I'm gradually tiptoeing towards this project, and placed an order today for some inks. I've stuck with Diamine, but their drawing inks line. Ultramarine, English Red, Sepia, Black, Emerald Green, and Gold should be arriving next week. I'll be getting a cheap dip pen or two, and a sample journal to tryout soon. Supposedly, all the inks should all be waterproof. I'll not be too upset if the inks fade a little over the years.

Any updates yet?

[Wuddus]

Yes, kind of, but not really

I got the six inks, an ultra cheapo dip pen set, and a cheap journal. I messed around briefly on a separate pad with the pen and ink, and it was a complete shambles. That's when I learned you need to clean new dip nibs before using then. I did make a brief entry in my "What I've learned so far" thread, but life hasn't given me another window to try again yet.

I want to try and get the hang of using the pen and inks before making any marks in the journal. It seems a waste to start scribbling nonsense in it, or starting the project properly before I've learned to handle the tools. I've also ordered a couple of comic g nibs from the far east, to modify a cheap Jinhao that I don't mind getting wrecked. The plan there being to have a backstop pen that I can use with permanent ink should dip pen become too tedious for the bulk of the text. I don't think flex writing will be a regular requirement for me, but this is a cheap way of my finding out what all the fuss is about.

[Paddler]

Some nibs will hold an ink puddle big enough to write a whole line between dips. Others will go half a page. If you make a simple feed and install it, you may write a whole page. Unless you have to dip every word or two, you get used to dipping and the tedium goes away; you just dip without thinking about it.

[azkid]

After writing three or so pages, I find dipping every few lines isn't as tedious as I anticipated. The pen is really quite fun to write with, actually.