Looking to upgrade to a higher quality pen

[RocketRyan]

One I think one brand writing better than another is very subjective, and two price and materials make the m800 a higher quality item.

[Pterodactylus]

I don't think I know of anyone who would think a Pelikan writes better than a Pilot so the upgrade is in the quality of the nib. There is also a much inconsistency in their stated and actual nib sizes which isn't the same with Pilot. The Pilot Custom 823 is a flag ship pen too.

if the Lamy is not a good choice you may look at a Sheaffer Legacy heritage or Parkar Vac.

Ok, now you know at least another one.
Nice to meet you Medieval.

I‘m with RocketRyan, the M800 is in a different league.
I donˋt know what problem you have with Pelikan nibs (and/or pens) , but all (modern) I own or tried were top notch (too much nail for my preferences but this is not their fault )


Quote 022 by Ptero Pterodactylus, auf Flickr

(Pelikan M205 Blue-Marbled - B EMF ..... Colorverse Crystal Planet provided by Scooby 921)



And their semi-flex 50s nibs are a league of their own, outperforming easily almost every modern nib.


Quote 025 by Ptero Pterodactylus, auf Flickr

(Pelikan Ibis 130 - EF ..... Kaweco Sunrise Orange provided by Scooby921)

[Medieval]

One I think one brand writing better than another is very subjective, and two price and materials make the m800 a higher quality item.

I wasn't aware that a higher price meant that it was a better pen.

[RocketRyan]

One I think one brand writing better than another is very subjective, and two price and materials make the m800 a higher quality item.

I wasn't aware that a higher price meant that it was a better pen.

Not a better pen, but generally made better and from higher quality materials.

[Medieval]

One I think one brand writing better than another is very subjective, and two price and materials make the m800 a higher quality item.

I wasn't aware that a higher price meant that it was a better pen.

Not a better pen, but generally made better and from higher quality materials.

So Visconti pens are of higher quality, better made and higher quality materials than both Pelikan and Pilot?

[RocketRyan]

I'm afraid the Italians make their own rules when it comes to quality. Materials wise I have never seen materials as pretty as visconti with the exception of omas and tibaldi.

[dfo]

One I think one brand writing better than another is very subjective, and two price and materials make the m800 a higher quality item.

I wasn't aware that a higher price meant that it was a better pen.

Not a better pen, but generally made better and from higher quality materials.

So Visconti pens are of higher quality, better made and higher quality materials than both Pelikan and Pilot?

I enjoy the nibs on Pelikans and Pilots. I value the nibs about the same, but the binde plastic (whatever form of cellulose it is) on my M805 feels so much better than the barrel on my Pilot 912. To me, both pens are worth their price.

Medieval, why do you think Pelikan pens are not high quality? Have you had many a bad experience using their pens?

[carrolljc]

I don't think I know of anyone who would think a Pelikan writes better than a Pilot so the upgrade is in the quality of the nib. There is also a much inconsistency in their stated and actual nib sizes which isn't the same with Pilot. The Pilot Custom 823 is a flag ship pen too.

if the Lamy is not a good choice you may look at a Sheaffer Legacy heritage or Parkar Vac.

Thanks for that information and for the recommendations on the Sheaffer and Parker. I haven't thought about those at all. My Sailor 1911 L Realo was delivered a couple of hours ago, and I'm getting a feel for it. I was comparing specs on the Platinum 3776, the Lamy 2000, and the Sailor 1911 L. The 3776 and 1911 L are very similar pens, with a similar feel in my hand. Both are Japanese fine points, but the Sailor puts down a fatter, wetter line. I tried three different inks before I found one that seems about right for that pen.

The Lamy, though the weight and length are similar, feels very different in my hand, and it lays down a script very different from either the 3776 or the 19ll L. I really like the Lamy, despite the (for me) excessive width of the EF nib.

The pen I had been most interested in possibly acquiring was the Aurora 88, but I think it would probably be so similar in general design to the 3776 and the 1911 L that it would not be a good alternative for expanding the range of pens I'm familiar with.

Would anybody have an opinion about how the Aurora 88 would compare with the Sailor 1911 L or the Platinum 3776? Any really perceptible difference in quality of writing?

Someone recommended the Pilot Justus 95. I'm right on the verge of springing for that. It's another Pilot, but it would at least definitely increase the range of experience with nibs.

I started with the the Lamy Al Star, the Pilot Metropolitan, the Pilot Prera, and the Pilot Stargazer. I've put away all of those except the Stargazer, and prospects aren't looking good for the Stargazer, either.

I'll go look at the Sheaffer and Parker.

[alexwi]

"I'd like to get a nib that is equivalent in size to a Japanese fine."

Take a look at this table for a starting point, if you want to forego nib tuning: https://www.nibs.com/content/nib-tipping-sizes

Alex

[carrolljc]

"I'd like to get a nib that is equivalent in size to a Japanese fine."

Take a look at this table for a starting point, if you want to forego nib tuning: https://www.nibs.com/content/nib-tipping-sizes

Alex

Yes, someone pointed that table out to me the other day, and it was very helpful.

Today, I received in the mail the Sailor 1911 L Realo, and at first I was disconcerted. It was a fine point, but it laid down a thick wet line quite different from the fine point of the Platinum 3776 or the Pilot fine points. I discovered though that the width of the line varies according to the angle at which I am holding the pen. If I hold it at a shallow angle, with the back of the pen closer to the desk top, the line is thick and wet. If I hold it at a more upright angle, with the end of the pen pointing up more toward the ceiling, the line thins out. At the correct angle, I can produce the line I want. Takes some practice.

I had a similar experience with the Lamy 2000 Extra Fine. It also laid down a fatter, wetter line than I wanted. But I discovered that if I hold it with the nib slanted a little off center--with the bottom of the nib facing not straight down toward the paper but off a little to the left, I can get a really sharp, fine line. For some reason, the script that results from that angle is my favorite script so far.

The Platinum 3776 is in this respect different from both the 1911 L and the Platinum 3776. With the 3776, I get just one consistent width of line. It's a fine point, and the line is like that of the Pilot fines, sharp and thin (which is what I want). It's consistent and doesn't require the extra attention required by angling the Lamy 2000 and the Sailor 1911 L, but I like putting in the effort with the other two. I've had the Lamy a few weeks now, and the correct angle has become pretty much habitual, with little extra effort required.

[Pterodactylus]

Be careful with such tables.
That can never be the absolute truth.

Nibs always vary in their sizes within one „size class“ some are a bit broader, some narrower.
I would not give too much on such a table, this looks nice and precise but it is only a rough abstraction of reality.
Beside that Asian nibs are generally one „size“ smaller than western ones not much can be said.

And beside the individual bandwidth and the influence how you hold your pen or how hard you press it down (catchword ballpoint barbarian) don‘t forget the ink, the ink has also great influence to the writing width.
The ink can easily make your pen write plus minus 1 „size class“ depending how wet or dry an ink is.

So the whole: „I want my pen write exactly with 0,3mm 0,7mm,.... „ is something which is a rough indicator, a wish to Santa. Claus if you like, not more, as there are so many factors which influence even one single individual pen (not talking about all of one series), like grind, pressure, angle (in 2 axis), ink, paper, ......

[Pterodactylus]

In case line width is such important to you, I suggest to use a technical pen instead, like the Rotring Rapidograph/Isograph......

They always write exactly with the specified line width, no matter what the user do or not do ....

[aaronp]

Lamy is always a good, so does Parker. Pelikan has some really beautiful limited edition that is not too pricey at all and look really nice as well.

[Scooby921]

One I think one brand writing better than another is very subjective, and two price and materials make the m800 a higher quality item.

I wasn't aware that a higher price meant that it was a better pen.

Not a better pen, but generally made better and from higher quality materials.

So Visconti pens are of higher quality, better made and higher quality materials than both Pelikan and Pilot?

It's always an opinion, but my opinion is yes. Since I bought a Visconti Homo Sapiens I have purchased two more Homo Sapiens and sold off a Lamy 2000, Wearever Pacemaker, Waterman Charleston, several TWSBI 580AL's, Montblanc Boheme, Sailor Pro Gear II Realo, Edison Menlo, Pelikan M640 Polar Lights, and Pilot Vanishing Point.

[carrolljc]

The ink can easily make your pen write plus minus 1 „size class“ depending how wet or dry an ink is.

I don't know anything yet about the relative wetness or dryness of inks. Can anyone recommend some good dryish inks?

the inks I've been using so far:

Iroshizuku Asa-gao
Private Reserve Electric DC Blue
Private Reserve American Blue
Colorverse Quasar
Waterman Serenity Blue

I tried a couple dozen samples from Goulet, but I was just testing for color, not wetness or dryness.

[Bold2013]

Pelikan 4001 inks are on the dry side.

[Pterodactylus]

True, these and many IG inks (not from KWZ) like ESS Registrars Blue Black, Rohrer&Klingner Salix and Scabiosa.

[carrolljc]

Pelikan 4001 inks are on the dry side.

Thanks, glad to find that out.

[Driften]

I would think most people would consider the Pilot Custom 823 to be an upgrade of even the Pelikan M800.

I do enjoy both my m805 and the 823. They are very similar in feel and the Pilot has a much better price of the two. I just don't see the 823 as an upgrade.

[RocketRyan]

Pelikan 4001 inks are on the dry side.

Thanks, glad to find that out.

4001 turquoise is a beauty too.