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Thread: Measuring Flex with a scale

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    Default Re: Measuring Flex with a scale

    Quote Originally Posted by Freddie View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Farmboy View Post
    It is not the size of your wand, but the magic in it.
    I'm of the same opinion....'Tis not the size of the boat....'Tis the motion of the ocean.....

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    Default Re: Measuring Flex with a scale

    Quote Originally Posted by Pterodactylus View Post
    Penwash, just because Iˋm curious what is missing?

    I don´t want to start a virtual cock size comparison contest but I think my „flex is fun“ post has at least the same factors of flexed to unflexed line variation as yours.

    And imo it’s not about squeezing out the fattest line possible (without breaking it on the short run), itˋs about the aesthetics in the writing setting accents with line variations.
    It has to be harmonic.

    The comparison post with the 12 1/2 does not show it‘s maximum possible line width.
    Itˋs btw one of my best flex nibs, a true full flex beauty which is just top notch.

    It shows how I use a full flex nibs during „normal“ writing.

    And not snatching for attention with each character somebody do squeezing out the max variation.

    Show me a full page of aesthetically pleasing writing with your nib, how you would use it in daily usage.

    People must get the wrong impression with this always posted „squeeze out whatever is possible without immediately damage in a few words“ samples.

    They are neither pleasing nor practicable (just a cock size comparison).

    And then the same (or many ) people claim, yeah there are flexible nibs but flex writing is not a practicable option in daily life these days, itˋs a ancient curiosity and long gone.

    And here I claim „NO“ it is neither ancient, nor inpracticable, nor not suitable for daily writing.
    These nibs can be used in daily writing just as a modern nail without any drawback, neither in speed nor any other aspect.
    they produce wonderful decent line variation enriching writing by factors.

    It‘s definitely not about squeezing out the maximum line width with every single character (which is not appealing at all) and which most likely will destroy the nib on the long run as it was never designed to withstand such abuse.
    And that this is an abuse is crystal clear for me, nobody used these nibs that way in the past.

    And that is also the reason why I‘m against this measure factor X crap.
    It‘s not about a maximum achievable flex factor X, persons who thinks that has not understand flex nibs at all.

    Many people just hunt them because it is popular to own these ancient curiosities, but never intended to learn how to master them and use them reasonable in daily life.
    They might ink one every now and then, squeeze a hell of line variation out of it in a few ugly written words, post it and claim „oh yeah I have awesome ancient flex nibs, I can master it“, then they go back to their shelf, as they are „not practical for daily usage“
    Of course the size of the line variation matters. The larger variation can be achieved while still writing in a pleasant way (not putting undue stress both to the nib and to the hand), the higher the quality of the nib in terms of flex writing.
    Maybe not to you, but to most people it does. Are you not okay with others having different preferences than yours?

    And I have no idea what you're talking about bringing 'cock' into the discussion. This is about flex writing using flex nibs. What does it have to do with chickens?
    - Will
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  4. #43
    Senior Member Pterodactylus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Measuring Flex with a scale

    Quote Originally Posted by penwash View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pterodactylus View Post
    Penwash, just because Iˋm curious what is missing?

    I don´t want to start a virtual cock size comparison contest but I think my „flex is fun“ post has at least the same factors of flexed to unflexed line variation as yours.

    And imo it’s not about squeezing out the fattest line possible (without breaking it on the short run), itˋs about the aesthetics in the writing setting accents with line variations.
    It has to be harmonic.

    The comparison post with the 12 1/2 does not show it‘s maximum possible line width.
    Itˋs btw one of my best flex nibs, a true full flex beauty which is just top notch.

    It shows how I use a full flex nibs during „normal“ writing.

    And not snatching for attention with each character somebody do squeezing out the max variation.

    Show me a full page of aesthetically pleasing writing with your nib, how you would use it in daily usage.

    People must get the wrong impression with this always posted „squeeze out whatever is possible without immediately damage in a few words“ samples.

    They are neither pleasing nor practicable (just a cock size comparison).

    And then the same (or many ) people claim, yeah there are flexible nibs but flex writing is not a practicable option in daily life these days, itˋs a ancient curiosity and long gone.

    And here I claim „NO“ it is neither ancient, nor inpracticable, nor not suitable for daily writing.
    These nibs can be used in daily writing just as a modern nail without any drawback, neither in speed nor any other aspect.
    they produce wonderful decent line variation enriching writing by factors.

    It‘s definitely not about squeezing out the maximum line width with every single character (which is not appealing at all) and which most likely will destroy the nib on the long run as it was never designed to withstand such abuse.
    And that this is an abuse is crystal clear for me, nobody used these nibs that way in the past.

    And that is also the reason why I‘m against this measure factor X crap.
    It‘s not about a maximum achievable flex factor X, persons who thinks that has not understand flex nibs at all.

    Many people just hunt them because it is popular to own these ancient curiosities, but never intended to learn how to master them and use them reasonable in daily life.
    They might ink one every now and then, squeeze a hell of line variation out of it in a few ugly written words, post it and claim „oh yeah I have awesome ancient flex nibs, I can master it“, then they go back to their shelf, as they are „not practical for daily usage“
    Of course the size of the line variation matters. The larger variation can be achieved while still writing in a pleasant way (not putting undue stress both to the nib and to the hand), the higher the quality of the nib in terms of flex writing.
    Maybe not to you, but to most people it does. Are you not okay with others having different preferences than yours?

    And I have no idea what you're talking about bringing 'cock' into the discussion. This is about flex writing using flex nibs. What does it have to do with chickens?
    Yeah, yeah, size matters, and you do not understand what I’m talking about

    I´ve no problem with different preferences.
    And what are exactly the differences?
    Iˋm a flex addict, enjoying flex nibs, vintage and modern.
    I don´t care about how old a nib is, what count is the performance it offers (and most of my pens are vintage ones)


    But please answer my question, what is missing/lack in my sample compared to yours?

    Because I don’t know it

    ... or is it just because it was done with a modern nib.....
    and your world picture would get a scratch admitting that full flex is also possible with modern nibs?

    ....or because you are selling vintage flex nibs and this would endanger your selling positions?...
    you are selling vintage pens right?

    This really reminds me on a discussion I had with Mauricio (who also live from selling vintage flex pens) years ago on the evil other side.
    And he also argued the same way as you do against modern flex, and lacked arguments after writing samples were provided....... strange things happens aren’t they? .....
    Last edited by Pterodactylus; June 9th, 2018 at 01:06 AM.

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    Default Re: Measuring Flex with a scale

    Ah yes, I remember that guy. Any conversation about flexibility was trolled by him acting all high and mighty but really coming across as a monumental dick, or it was trolled by the author of "How fine can I split this hair: My guide to flexible fountain pens".

    But I digress.

    Grabbed a couple of pens and very quickly and roughly wrote what you see in the pictures. Sorry for lack of clarity in focus - cell phone camera, desk lamp, no skills, you know how it is.

    Anyway, one, either or both of these is written by a modern flexible nib - OR - one, either or both, is written using a vintage flexible nib.

    Apart from lucky guesses the challenge here is to determine what has been used where, and to back that determination with solid reasoning.



    Ptero, I largely agree with you regarding the need (or not) of a measure of flexibility. As I've said on numerous occasions, those of us in places where you cannot ever try first have to have some way of making a distant judgement on a purchase. The measure would help, but it doesn't have to be perfect!

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    Default Re: Measuring Flex with a scale

    When I was back there in seminary school, there was a person there who put forth the proposition that you can measure flex with a scale - measure flex with a scale - measure flex with a scale...

    YOU CANNOT MEASURE FLEX WITH A SCALE!!!

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    Default Re: Measuring Flex with a scale

    Depends what you mean by scale. I was thinking of something similar to a Likert scale.

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    Default Re: Measuring Flex with a scale

    This is one of those discussions that makes me feel very glad that I'm so clueless

    I haven't developed a "need" for flex yet, which makes my pen purchasing a whole lot simpler. That said, I can understand the need to understand how responsive a nib might be before you've handed over some serious coinage for it.

    Maybe it would help if everyone agrees what properties do/don't matter, before trying to figure out how to rank it. From what I'm reading, it seems there's more to it than achievable line width and pressure required... but I don't know enough to guess what the other properties are.

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    Default Re: Measuring Flex with a scale

    Really there are only three factors to consider:

    1. How easily the nib flexes - less pressure vs more pressure = less control vs more control (in general).
    2. How much line variation is achievable without springing the nib.
    3. How quickly does the flexed nib return to its default state.

    For example, a given nib may flex easily and recover quickly and yet only have a small amount of line variation. Some Waterman "pink" nibs are like this, and they are often the grail flex nib for some people.

    Any combination of these factors may be desirable. One of my dip nibs for instance requires hardly any pressure to achieve a line variation 30x wider (yes, that's thirty) if not more than its starting width, and snaps back instantly any pressure is released. Hard to find that in a fountain pen quite frankly.

    My favourite flexible fountain pen nib would allow me to write hairlines and small swells, and have sufficient rigidity so that it is easier to control. There's lots of them around if you are in a place that has a thriving pen market.

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    Default Re: Measuring Flex with a scale

    Quote Originally Posted by SIR View Post
    When I was back there in seminary school, there was a person there who put forth the proposition that you can measure flex with a scale - measure flex with a scale - measure flex with a scale...

    YOU CANNOT MEASURE FLEX WITH A SCALE!!!
    You're right. It is magic. Beyond our feeble human understanding. Thread complete! Let's all go home now.

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    Default Re: Measuring Flex with a scale

    I think if you are technically minded, the scale would help relate to flexibility and makes sense, at least on paper. It is just how one's brain is wired to perceive the data. More grams/mm = less flexibility than fewer grams/mm. It is easy enough to understand. Then you would have to settle on what is you flexibility standard. Anything more or less than your standard would help relate that pens flexibility. I like it but some people will not relate to the data.
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