Sailor 21K Broad Nib Question

[calamus]

I received an eagerly-awaited pen just recently, a Sailor 1911 standard body with a 21K broad nib. I’ve been using fountain pens on and off since the 1950’s, but it’s the first gold nibbed-pen I’ve owned.

I inked it with some Diamine Lapis Blue I’d just recently acquired from the Phillippines, and gleefully put pen to paper, expecting hitherto unexperienced writing joys. I’d heard Sailor nibs discussed in hushed, reverent tones; even heard them described as among the world’s finest. So I was exceedingly disappointed when it had noticeable drag, occasionally skipped (okay, I was writing on a notebook balanced on my knee, but still..), and once or twice produced blobs of ink on the page (looked like a bit of paper fiber got momentarily stuck between the tines). I have a Pilot Metropolitan with a stainless steel nib that performs much better. Did I get a dud, or are Sailor nibs vastly over-rated? Or does it merely require advanced nib-handling techniques that I need to learn at the lotus feet of a fountain pen guru? Or perhaps I fail to appreciate the equisiteness of draggy nibs that occasionally skip?

I bought the pen on eBay from Japan from a private party, so I can’t return it for a replacement, as I could have if I’d paid double for it from an authorized dealer. It came new in the package and gives no indication of being a knockoff, and the dealer has a 100% feedback rating. The pen and nib look gorgeous, and I see no obvious problem with the nib through a loupe, although the shape of the tip is different from what I’m accustomed to seeing; instead of being spherical, the bottom of the bellied-out part is elongated a bit.

I’m hoping it could be tuned up by what I’ve heard people refer to as a nib-meister. Can anyone tell me who the go-to nib wizard is, what does a tune-up usually cost, and does this sound like a fixable problem? An ad for thenibsmith.com popped up when I did an online search, but when I went to his website it said he was not taking any new orders until his backlog became manageable.

[dfo]

Before sending out the pen for repair, I would first try the pen with other inks and I would then post some photos of the nib. My Sailor ProGear definitely has more feedback than my Pilot 912, but I enjoy both pens.

[Medieval]

Sailors have a unique style of nib which means that they're likely to have a more polarised opinion than others

There are two aspects of their nib which may be causing your problems. the first is that they usually have a sweet spot. Hit the sweet spot and it's smooth, miss it and it may skip or scratch a little. The second is that they have a zoomlike shape to them in that they will write more broadly and smoothly the lower the angle you write at.

[calamus]

Sailors have a unique style of nib which means that they're likely to have a more polarised opinion than others

There are two aspects of their nib which may be causing your problems. the first is that they usually have a sweet spot. Hit the sweet spot and it's smooth, miss it and it may skip or scratch a little. The second is that they have a zoomlike shape to them in that they will write more broadly and smoothly the lower the angle you write at.

I noticed that it wrote more smoothly at a lower angle, about 30º, but I write more naturally at closer to 45º. I tried a different ink, as dfo suggested, and noticed an immediate improvement in performance. Lapis Blue, or at least the bottle I got, seems to be much drier than any of the other Diamine inks I've used. The one I've got in there now is Diamine Oxford Blue, my everyday ink, and it's cut the feedback in half.

I'll have to see if I can get used to writing at a flatter angle. Hopefully I can find an angle that's a little flatter than what I'm accustomed to, but not by so much that it would be too hard for me to get used to. Otherwise I may be looking at trying to trade for a Pilot or re-grinding the nib, but that seems almost sacrilegious. I'd better get to know the pen better before doing anything irreversible with it.

[dfo]

but that seems almost sacrilegious. I'd better get to know the pen better before doing anything irreversible with it.

Remember that getting a nib tuned/worked on is never sacrilegious. It is and has been part of owning a fountain pen. Check out Michael Masuyama, who worked for Sailor back in the day. Masuyama and many other nibmeisters can tune the pen to suit your needs.

[calamus]

Remember that getting a nib tuned/worked on is never sacrilegious. It is and has been part of owning a fountain pen. Check out Michael Masuyama, who worked for Sailor back in the day. Masuyama and many other nibmeisters can tune the pen to suit your needs.

Medieval seems to be saying that given the shape of Sailor nib tips, a Sailor pen requires that it be written with it at a lower angle than other types of pen. Would Michael Masuyama or another nibmeister who is experienced with Sailor nibs tune one so that it writes better but still needs to be used at a lower angle than other pens, or could they make the tip rounder or make whatever modification it requires for it to write more like other pens that i'm accustomed to? I hope I phrased that clearly.

By the way, thank you for your earlier suggestion about trying a different ink; the pen seems to perform significantly better with Diamine Oxford Blue, but it still doesn't write as well as my Pilot Prera, which I bought for about $35.

[adhoc]

This is the third complaint about Sailor nibs I’ve read in 10 minutes. Perhaps they’re not THAT great either.

[calamus]

This is the third complaint about Sailor nibs I’ve read in 10 minutes. Perhaps they’re not THAT great either.

I'd not heard about other people having problems with Sailor nibs until your post, so I did an online search on the subject. I found a few threads on other forums on the subject, and it seems that while most people are very happy with their Sailors right out of the box, now and then a nib/feed problem does slip past quality control.

[adhoc]

I don’t want to be super critical, I’m actually thinking of picking up a Sailor black luster for myself, that’s why I’m interested in the topic. I heard many times how Sailors are the be all end all, but I see more than a few complaints from owners that might paint a different picture.

[calamus]

I don’t want to be super critical, I’m actually thinking of picking up a Sailor black luster for myself, that’s why I’m interested in the topic. I heard many times how Sailors are the be all end all, but I see more than a few complaints from owners that might paint a different picture.

What I read repeatedly was that people who bought them from high end dealers that tuned them before sending out had no complaints at all, and people who bought them elsewhere and were less than delighted with the out-of-the-box experience but then sent them off to a good nibmeister to have them tuned were deliriously delighted with the resultant pen.

[calamus]

[Medieval]

I don’t want to be super critical, I’m actually thinking of picking up a Sailor black luster for myself, that’s why I’m interested in the topic. I heard many times how Sailors are the be all end all, but I see more than a few complaints from owners that might paint a different picture.

What I read repeatedly was that people who bought them from high end dealers that tuned them before sending out had no complaints at all, and people who bought them elsewhere and were less than delighted with the out-of-the-box experience but then sent them off to a good nibmeister to have them tuned were deliriously delighted with the resultant pen.

The high praise for Sailor nibs comes from nibmeisters such as Richard Binder, John Mottishaw, John Sorowka, et al who know what they're talking about when it comes to nibs.

[calamus]

I don’t want to be super critical, I’m actually thinking of picking up a Sailor black luster for myself, that’s why I’m interested in the topic. I heard many times how Sailors are the be all end all, but I see more than a few complaints from owners that might paint a different picture.

What I read repeatedly was that people who bought them from high end dealers that tuned them before sending out had no complaints at all, and people who bought them elsewhere and were less than delighted with the out-of-the-box experience but then sent them off to a good nibmeister to have them tuned were deliriously delighted with the resultant pen.

The high praise for Sailor nibs comes from nibmeisters such as Richard Binder, John Mottishaw, John Sorowka, et al who know what they're talking about when it comes to nibs.

Do you know where I could learn about who the best nibmeisters working with Sailor nibs today are, and how to get in touch with them? Dfo mentioned Michael Masuyama, and now you've given me a few more names.

[Medieval]

I wouldn't buy any pen if it required a nibmeister. It's highly unlikely that the Sailor pens do because they're designed with the characteristics that they are. They are praised by nibmeisters because their QC is second to none and hence they perform as expected, but not everyone likes how they perform with their zoom feature and sweet spot.

I think that you're better off with a different brand if you need to send it to a nibmeister.

[calamus]

Well, this is a bit embarrassing, but less than 24 hours after getting the hang of how the zoom nib works, my pen fell onto the floor and now has a bent nib. I have been on a roller coaster with this pen, first disappointed because it didn't seem to be performing as I expected, then euphoric when I suddenly got the hang of it, and then this. I'm attaching a photo. As you can see, I do need someone to repair it. I'm going to query Michael Masuyama, but would like the names of any other experts who are currently working, in case it turns out that he has a six-month turn-around or something crazy like that. Thanks.

[Scooby921]

I don’t want to be super critical, I’m actually thinking of picking up a Sailor black luster for myself, that’s why I’m interested in the topic. I heard many times how Sailors are the be all end all, but I see more than a few complaints from owners that might paint a different picture.

I don't know if Sailor is the be all end all, but every one I've used has been very nice, save the used Sailor I bought for my wife. That nib had some issues, but I figure it was the previous owner. She sent the pen to Mike Masuyama for a new grind and the new architect nib is nothing short of fantastic.

Well, this is a bit embarrassing, but less than 24 hours after getting the hang of how the zoom nib works, my pen fell onto the floor and now has a bent nib. I have been on a roller coaster with this pen, first disappointed because it didn't seem to be performing as I expected, then euphoric when I suddenly got the hang of it, and then this. I'm attaching a photo. As you can see, I do need someone to repair it. I'm going to query Michael Masuyama, but would like the names of any other experts who are currently working, in case it turns out that he has a six-month turn-around or something crazy like that. Thanks.

I'm slightly confused. Your 1st post says Broad nib, and now it's a Zoom nib. If it's a zoom nib then I completely understand why changing angles impacts how well it writes. The whole point of the zoom nib is that changing your writing angle changes the line you get. The higher you go the finer the point and the more feedback / scratch you're going to get. On a plain broad nib that wouldn't be as much of an issue, and being wider and putting down more ink the Sailor broad nibs are quite wet and glide across the page really well (one of the best nibs I've owned).

As mentioned the "local" authority on Sailor nib tuning is Mike Masuyama. I would definitely email or call him, send pics, and see if it's something he can repair. Alternatively you can contact Classic Fountain Pens (nibs.com) and see if John Mottishaw can / will repair it. If not, CFP is a Sailor vendor and should be able to replace the nib for you and tune the new nib / pen before it comes back. I've bought numerous pens from CFP and had pens tuned and nibs ground by John. I've been pleased with all of them.

[calamus]

It is a broad, but the tip is an unusual shape, not spherical like other fountain pens I've owned, more like a rounded triangular shape, and when I tried to describe it, fumbling for the right words, Medieval must have thought I was trying to describe a zoom nib and called it that, so I thought that was another name for what I had. In any event, it does seem to respond much better when a certain area of the nib is in contact with the paper, and it does make a broader line at a lower angle. And it doesn't exactly glide across the paper, but moves across it with a bit of resistance. Anyway, I'm sending it to Mike Masuyama, even though he currently has a 17-week backlog and isn't offering expedited service at the moment. (Addendum a week later: He will begin offering expedited service again starting July 1. Yay!!)

Oh, and thank you again for Mystery Ink #18. That was fun.

PS Here's a sketch of the nib tip in profile, more or less:



Hmm. Looking at the drawing enlarged, it seems that the line should not get broader as the angle became lower; the opposite if anything. But it did do that. Weird.

[dneal]

Looks like somebody ground a foot on it.

[calamus]

The pen was represented as new. I bought it on eBay from a private party in Japan who had a 100% feedback rating. It came in the box in a cellophane sleeve with a tag attached to the clip and what appeared to be all the right paperwork, and it looked new. Maybe my sketch is off.

[calamus]

Looks like somebody ground a foot on it.

I'm not familiar with that term. What is a foot on a nib?