Why are there no modern wet noodles?

[ardgedee]

Sometimes it's a matter of finding a market... sometimes it's a matter of making a market...

In my dip pen days, I would have killed to have a fountain pen that worked like (and as well as) my favorite railroad pens -- this was long before I'd ever known about antique fountain pens and their flexible nibs.

Artists are always looking for new tools. So I don't think the business potential is nonexistent as much as an uphill climb.

[snedwos]

These days, thanks to the power of TEH INTERNETZ, there is no reason why niche markets shouldn't be profitable. You can fairly easily get whatever anyone wants to whoever wants it. It's "long-tail" economics (Sorry, just read a book on the subject, and am excited with my little knowledge).

[Jon Szanto]

A "little knowledge" can lead to incomplete and erroneous assumptions.

If anyone wants to look at what (appears to be) a successful niche venture goes like, the recent history of Syd Sapperstein (sp?) and the return of the Wahl-Eversharp company is a good start. However, it appears to be successful for a number of reasons, and might not scale down to something like offering wet-noodle pens.

[fountainpenkid]

Maybe TWSBI will be the first...

[Mod_wolves]

Maybe TWSBI will be the first...

They'll probably be the only company who might. And if so my name will be on the list.

[AltecGreen]

Maybe TWSBI will be the first...

They'll probably be the only company who might. And if so my name will be on the list.

They would first have to make their own nibs and feed.

[fountainpenkid]

Maybe TWSBI will be the first...

They'll probably be the only company who might. And if so my name will be on the list.

They would first have to make their own nibs and feed.

Yes. They already do the latter, I believe.

[AltecGreen]

Maybe TWSBI will be the first...

They'll probably be the only company who might. And if so my name will be on the list.

They would first have to make their own nibs and feed.

Yes. They already do the latter, I believe.

Feeds are easy if you have the capability to injection mold or machine.

Nibs are a different story.

[hari317]

But could a craftsman of today make a modern wet noodle? Is it possible?

I believe one guy does. look for Romillopens "nib K"

[AltecGreen]

But could a craftsman of today make a modern wet noodle? Is it possible?

I believe one guy does. look for Romillopens "nib K"

Alvaro is the only one I know of who does it. I believe the nib is vintage flex but not a wet noodle. The pens that takes the K nib are also around 1000 euros. It can be done but not at a low price.

[Manny]

[Sailor Kenshin]

Evidently, both.

I hope this is visible. There used to be many more wet-noodle vids on the 'tube' but they all disappeared.

That's pretty noodle-y.

[Manny]

There used to be many more wet-noodle vids on the 'tube' but they all disappeared.

This was the video that did it for me.

[Sailor Kenshin]

That guy is a magician.

Did I read right and is the ink actually watercolor? I do own one flex pen, but it's a frankenpen picked up at a show for ten bucks. It has no cap. The gold stub nib is quite flexible but clearly alien to the eyedropper feed and body.

One of these days I'll acquire a real one.

[Musinkman]

My understanding is pretty much what Maricio stated...that the process of "forged gold" no longer exists due to the cost of working the gold in that way. That process has been replaced by "rolled gold" which does not have the same properties as forged gold. That along with the craftsmen who ground, tested, and did the QC on the nibs in the old days...there are no such craftsmen these days. There is no demand for the craft and has not been for many years. There were no apprentices who learned the old nib master's craft so the art was lost. We have the Mottishaws, the Binders, the Zorns, and those guys...but how many really? Only a handful of true nibmeisters remain in the world. So if that is true, then there is very definitely a finite number of the old full-flex, superflex, and wet noodle fountain pens out there. There will be no more. As people like us snatch them up, the supply grows less and less. With the price of gold at insane levels, I hear that many of those wonderful, irreplaceable old nibs are being melted down into gold bullion. The day is not far off when we will look back and wonder how the heck we didn't buy every vintage 14k nib on the market while they were still affordable. Get every one that you want now, because when they're gone...they're gone.

[AndyT]

My father was taught to write in the early 1930s, and he has an extremely light touch. At that time, in the UK at least, it seems that dip pens were the norm in schools and as anybody who has tried writing with vintage dip nibs knows, even the monoline models had a fair bit of flex. My suspicion is that the flexible fountain pen nibs of the time were more about feel than line variation, and everybody wrote with feathery light pressure compared to later generations who were brought up on ballpoints.

You won't see any very heavy shades in the Spencerian manuals, and the great American ornamental penmen all used super flexible steel nibs in an oblique pen holder (all right, W. E. Dennis was a goose quill man). Most fountain pen inks aren't well suited to making heavy shades either with their enthusiastic flow characteristics. So I think that those wet noodle videos show fountain pens being used in a more extreme way than was customary at the time of manufacture, and it's testament to the quality of the nibs that they can take the flexing and snap back smartly after all these years.

As for why nobody makes super-flexible nibs any more, I imagine it's just too labour intensive and too risky to offer a warranty on them. The Edison Pens / Greg Minuskin / Michael Sull Spencerian pen project fell through, sadly, because of nib problems, and since that was essentially a cost-no-object venture it suggests that some of the manufacturing skills have been lost. There's probably a lot of truth in the theory about forging: certainly going by how the process alters the spring properties of steel I'd guess it makes the same sort of difference with gold. So, keep an eye open for those Mabie Todds and Watermans.

[Musinkman]

My father was taught to write in the early 1930s, and he has an extremely light touch. At that time, in the UK at least, it seems that dip pens were the norm in schools and as anybody who has tried writing with vintage dip nibs knows, even the monoline models had a fair bit of flex.

Oh yes, I know what you mean. The dip pen requires such a light touch; else you get snagged and a nice spray of ink across your page. I used to call it the "springy sproingy sprays", because the nib (without warning) would "ping" and at the speed of light the ink droplets appeared across my page. I didn't know why, since I never had that problem with my old trusty vintage fountain pen flexers. But I've learned since. You just gotta be careful with those things, and if that nib is flexed the teeniest amount when you go into a curve...get ready for a display of inky pyrotechnics.

[ardgedee]

The dip pen requires such a light touch; else you get snagged and a nice spray of ink across your page. I used to call it the "springy sproingy sprays", because the nib (without warning) would "ping" and at the speed of light the ink droplets appeared across my page. I didn't know why, since I never had that problem with my old trusty vintage fountain pen flexers. But I've learned since. You just gotta be careful with those things, and if that nib is flexed the teeniest amount when you go into a curve...get ready for a display of inky pyrotechnics.

It's been quite a long time since I used dip pens regularly, but my favorites were often the ones with that kind of snap to them; when a nib was broken in and flowing well, it was amazing how quickly I could draw with it, about on par with pencil or conte. It wasn't too hard to keep under control after warming up a little.

A master (unlike me) could use the spray from that snap, and parlay the tactile qualities of an India ink to good effect...
ralph-steadman-old-blue-eyes.jpg

As I've noted, I'm less interested in using a flex pen for writing, and more for drawing. There is now a whole generation of artists who are used to getting line variation out of touch sensitivity on computer art tablets -- even when emulating tools that don't ordinarily vary their lines much, like modern ink pens -- and I'd bet a new generation of wet noodle pens would be appealing to them.

[AndyT]

There is now a whole generation of artists who are used to getting line variation out of touch sensitivity on computer art tablets ... and I'd bet a new generation of wet noodle pens would be appealing to them.

One interesting (and inexpensive) possibility would be to follow up on Nathan Tardif's suggestion and try using a dip nib in one of his flex pens. You'd have to find the right nib, probably one of the "shoulder pen" pattern, ideally a boxful of them. And be prepared to do a lot of work on the feed. For instance, it looks to me as if a Brandauer Review Pen could be made to fit snugly into an Ahab with a little judicious grinding. If there's a suitable modern nib out there it could be practical proposition.

It seems that Peter Unbehauen has produced a few pens along these lines. SBREB knows more about that, in fact I egged him on to get one. Not sure if anything came of that, but Stephen did put a Brause Rose into a Noodler's pen in one of his videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9Qnd1Z6LHg

Maybe not an unqualified success, but there's clearly some mileage in the idea ... the main limiting factor is having to use fountain pen ink. I guess that this was what gave Stephen the idea in the first place:

http://www.kalligrafie.net/drechselw...ntainpen5.html

[AltecGreen]

There is now a whole generation of artists who are used to getting line variation out of touch sensitivity on computer art tablets ... and I'd bet a new generation of wet noodle pens would be appealing to them.

One interesting (and inexpensive) possibility would be to follow up on Nathan Tardif's suggestion and try using a dip nib in one of his flex pens. You'd have to find the right nib, probably one of the "shoulder pen" pattern, ideally a boxful of them. And be prepared to do a lot of work on the feed. For instance, it looks to me as if a Brandauer Review Pen could be made to fit snugly into an Ahab with a little judicious grinding. If there's a suitable modern nib out there it could be practical proposition.

It seems that Peter Unbehauen has produced a few pens along these lines. SBREB knows more about that, in fact I egged him on to get one. Not sure if anything came of that, but Stephen did put a Brause Rose into a Noodler's pen in one of his videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9Qnd1Z6LHg

Maybe not an unqualified success, but there's clearly some mileage in the idea ... the main limiting factor is having to use fountain pen ink. I guess that this was what gave Stephen the idea in the first place:

http://www.kalligrafie.net/drechselw...ntainpen5.html

I've done this on a few of the Noodler's pens as well as a number of other low and high end pens.

The results are mixed. The Brause Rose is a good choice and better than a Gillott 303. The flow is never perfect and often the pen is a hard starter. Still, if you want to do formal calligraphy, a dip pen nib in an oblique holder is a better choice. A vintage fountain pen with a vintage flex nib is more stable and useable than a modified pen. A better choice if you want to modify is to take a gold Victorian dip pen nib and mount that in a large modern fountain pen. They can still be a little wonky but they are bit better behaved.

If you do want to try steel dip pen nibs, bear in mind they tend to be a bit longer and more curved than a standard fountain pen nib. Depending on the pen, I've had better success trimming a bit off the back of the nib and flattening the nib profile.