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Thread: Misaligned tines on Pelikans

  1. #21
    Senior Member Pterodactylus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Misaligned tines on Pelikans

    Quote Originally Posted by Medieval View Post
    Oh dear, we have touched a raw nerve haven't we. I would hazard a guess though that 5 different nibmiesters are more credible than someone who is fanatical about Pelikans.

    When you've calmed down enough to think rationally, you'll notice that we're talking about modern Pelikans, not ones that are 70 years old. The fountain pen market and manufacture has changed a lot since then, but then some people prefer to live in the past.
    Question:
    Do you mean me with „someone who is fanatical about Pelikans“?

    I guess yes...
    Interesting, just because I shared my experience with Pelikan I‘m a fanatical Pelikan fanboy in your eyes.

    I ensure you I don‘t have to calm down, and I‘m not a fanatical fanboy.

    I just value the in my eyes top notch quality of their products (in my first person experience).

    I value also other brands with excellent products....(e.g. I love also Montblanc products, but not for status reasons, just for their quality)

    What I for sure never experienced is „mediocre“ overall quality of Pelikan piston fillers, the Pelikan quality of materials and manufacturing is for sure top notch.

    If you claim something like this than please prove it with several examples of first person experience, not just claim it or justify it afterwards with a: Mr A,B,C,T has told me....

    There are many other brands where the mediocre attribute might fit, but imho for sure not for Pelikan.

    Did you read my post at all?

    I guess not, I talked about modern Pelikans not vintage ones.

    So the market and the pens changed a lot, and if I value 50s Pelikan pens then I live in the past, interesting.

    Somehow I begin to question your reputation and experience level, sorry for that.....

    I mentioned the vintage Pelikans as they have the same nib unit as the modern ones, they are even interchangeable.
    A design which has proven it‘s value for many decades and which is still up to date (and many other manufacturers still have nothing comparable with respect to maintainability, quality, durability and smartness).

    To illustrate and question your claim that the Pelikan nib units are crap, a design which is successful on the market for many decades, where even many of the oldest ones are still in use and operable.


    Nothing to do with your claims, but please tell me in which aspect vintage Pelikan piston fillers are outdated and things of the past?
    Just because I‘m curious.

    Last time I checked it, they were still up to date and miss nothing compared to modern piston fillers.

    Just to mention: Top notch materials, timeless design, modern piston mechanism, up to date nib units, top notch nibs, top notch nib grinds with a great amount of different grinds available (including top notch oblique ones, offering many more nib options than modern ones (without paying a nibmeister to grind a custom one)), great maintainability, durability, good for another several lifetimes, .....

    So please enlighten me, what changed in your eyes so dramatically.

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  3. #22
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    Default Re: Misaligned tines on Pelikans

    Five Pelikans have been purchased by this family - so a statistically insignificant amount. Not one has had misaligned tines, nor baby bottom.

    And Mr S did not steer me away from Pelikans, nor any other brand of pen. He has sorted out some lemon nibs for me from other well known manufacturers.

  4. #23
    Senior Member Kulprit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Misaligned tines on Pelikans

    Quote Originally Posted by Medieval View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kulprit View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medieval View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pajaro View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medieval View Post
    Oh dear, we have touched a raw nerve haven't we. I would hazard a guess though that 5 different nibmiesters are more credible than someone who is fanatical about Pelikans.

    When you've calmed down enough to think rationally, you'll notice that we're talking about modern Pelikans, not ones that are 70 years old. The fountain pen market and manufacture has changed a lot since then, but then some people prefer to live in the past.
    When you are thinking rationally, you might realize that nibmeisters have a vested interest in having you believe that Pelikans have nibs that likely need their services. You might want to accept these claims blindly, but I suggest you consider them in the light of a wider group of experiences before you decide all the new Pelikans need immediate nib alignment services. It's your money, though. I have no Pelikans older than 20 years. All have recently made nibs. These are among the few nibs that I have found 100% of to be aligned. I weigh the authoritativeness of these nibmeisters against experience, and it just doesn't jive. The nerve is that I have a college education and I examine claims and think about them. Where I have experience, I consider that. The nibmeisters' claims might be true, but I can't verify it. My experience is at variance. YMMV.
    For that matter they have an interest in ALL nibs needing service. Mr S, for example, as I have referred to him, would not have steered me towards an example of a brand that makes good nibs while steering me away from Pelikan. If he really wanted my custom, don't you think he would have been encouraging me to buy a Pelikan? But perhaps you're not thinking rationally either.

    Why have 5 different nibmeisters singled out Pelikan? Well maybe because it's true. I have no reason to doubt all of them especially as it tallies with my own experience and much of what I've seen and read.

    I suggest you make contact many of the better known nibmeisters for yourself if you choose not to believe me.
    Except for pens getting custom grinds, every pen sent in to a nibmeister has a wonky nib. In other words, 100% of the Pelikans sent to nibmeisters for service have bad nibs. That’s what’s known in the statistical world as a sampling error.

    Now factor in the type of pen that someone is likely to send in for service. Is someone who spends $75 on a pen likely to send it in for a $50 adjustment/tuning? Possibly, but probably not. Now how about a $300-600 pen? Far more likely.

    Example: Many, many years ago, Consumer Reports gave very low marks to Nakamichi cassette decks, and very high marks to Panasonic cassette decks, because the former had significantly higher repair rates than the latter. Why would anyone buy a cassette deck that was 5x more likely to be sent in for repair? Seems logical, no? To anyone who was into hifi in that era, this was a most puzzling development, since Nakamichi made the finest cassette decks in the world. The one factor that Consumer Reports hadn’t considered, however, was that Nakamichi cassette decks could easily cost in excess of $1500 (in 80s money) whereas the Panasonics were “disposable”. Obviously somebody is more likely to repair a $1500 component than they are a component whose replacement cost is less than the repair cost.

    It had nothing to do with high likely it was that the object would NEED service, but rather how likely was that the object would BE serviced.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    So one would expect there to be lots of Sailor KoP and Pilot makie pens going in for nib work then.
    Well of course not, Sailor and Pilot have excellent QC.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Default Re: Misaligned tines on Pelikans

    Quote Originally Posted by Pterodactylus View Post

    and I‘m not a fanatical fanboy.

    ........


    A design which has proven it‘s value for many decades and which is still up to date (and many other manufacturers still have nothing comparable with respect to maintainability, quality, durability and smartness).


    -----------

    Just to mention: Top notch materials, timeless design, modern piston mechanism, up to date nib units, top notch nibs, top notch nib grinds with a great amount of different grinds available (including top notch oblique ones, offering many more nib options than modern ones (without paying a nibmeister to grind a custom one)), great maintainability, durability, good for another several lifetimes, .....
    Well of course you're not a fanatical Pelikan fanboy. How could anyone possibly consider you a fanatic. As for your post, it's difficult to know where to start.

    For example:
    "Did you read my post at all?

    I guess not, I talked about modern Pelikans not vintage ones.
    "

    Modern, you say? Such as the Pelikan 400NN, Pelikan 100N, Pelikan P458 Airpen Silbe and most of the rest that haven't been available for donkey's years. And then this:
    "No,no, no... again wrong, this is a vintage bird, let me try it again, despite also these almost 70 years old pens have already the mentioned crappy designed nib".

    Gotta luv those modern pens of yours. And just because the nib units are interchangeable doesn't mean that the nibs are even remotely the same, which goes to show how little you know. If you're going to be a fanatic at least have some partial knowledge of the topic that you wish you knew about. Pelikan nibs have changed from being more angled to the characterless over-polished blobs of 2018 with QC issues galore.

    Obviously you don't read your own posts either, so I don't know why you would expect anyone else to waste their time on them.
    Last edited by Medieval; October 17th, 2018 at 12:40 AM.

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    Senior Member Pterodactylus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Misaligned tines on Pelikans

    Quote Originally Posted by Medieval View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pterodactylus View Post

    and I‘m not a fanatical fanboy.

    ........


    A design which has proven it‘s value for many decades and which is still up to date (and many other manufacturers still have nothing comparable with respect to maintainability, quality, durability and smartness).


    -----------

    Just to mention: Top notch materials, timeless design, modern piston mechanism, up to date nib units, top notch nibs, top notch nib grinds with a great amount of different grinds available (including top notch oblique ones, offering many more nib options than modern ones (without paying a nibmeister to grind a custom one)), great maintainability, durability, good for another several lifetimes, .....
    Well of course you're not a fanatical Pelikan fanboy. How could anyone possibly consider you a fanatic. As for your post, it's difficult to know where to start.

    For example:
    "Did you read my post at all?

    I guess not, I talked about modern Pelikans not vintage ones.
    "

    Modern, you say? Such as the Pelikan 400NN, Pelikan 100N, Pelikan P458 Airpen Silbe and most of the rest that haven't been available for donkey's years. And then this:
    "No,no, no... again wrong, this is a vintage bird, let me try it again, despite also these almost 70 years old pens have already the mentioned crappy designed nib".

    Gotta luv those modern pens of yours. And just because the nib units are interchangeable doesn't mean that the nibs are even remotely the same, which goes to show how little you know. If you're going to be a fanatic at least have some partial knowledge of the topic that you wish you knew about. Pelikan nibs have changed from being more angled to the characterless over-polished blobs of 2018 with QC issues galore.

    Obviously you don't read your own posts either, so I don't know why you would expect anyone else to waste their time on them.

    Ok, that‘s for me, I will not feed the Troll any further, his posts speak for itself.

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    Default Re: Misaligned tines on Pelikans

    I find misaligned nibs across a swath of brands including Sailor, Pilot, Lamy, and Pelikan. All make great pens and Pelikans are amongst my favorite. Misaligned nibs are easily remedied without the need of a nibmeister.
    Last edited by dfo; October 17th, 2018 at 01:04 PM.

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    Default Re: Misaligned tines on Pelikans

    Out of 14 modern gold nibs and pens I had from Pelikan varying from M400 to M1000 only one did not write properly, which is the best statistic I have with any brand except Lamy. I have had multiple pens from every major pen brand except Sailor.

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    Default Re: Misaligned tines on Pelikans

    I have over tighten a nib unit once which caused the feed to be off center which could have lead to misaligning the tines.

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    Default Re: Misaligned tines on Pelikans

    If you swap the nib units in/out of Pelican pens, it’s very easy to get the tines mis-aligned over the feed. You just to turn the nib a little and look at it under a 10-20x to fix it. If you write back-and forth sideways with a nib, you’ll know right away whether the tines are contacting the paper at the same time. Use a VERY light touch and you’ll feel it.

    I’ve had 20-30 Pelicans over time and this isn’t a big, nor an unusual issue. Many dealers, IMO just swap the nibs around and don’t bother to test and tweak them prior to sale.

    There are instances where the nib can be split off-center, but that’ pretty unusual. It should be caught by QC prior to shipment and the nib discarded. You see poorly split nibs much more commonly in vintage pens, not so much with good-quality modern pens.

    Skip


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    Senior Member pajaro's Avatar
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    Default Re: Misaligned tines on Pelikans

    Quote Originally Posted by skipwilliamsnj View Post
    If you swap the nib units in/out of Pelican pens, it’s very easy to get the tines mis-aligned over the feed. You just to turn the nib a little and look at it under a 10-20x to fix it. If you write back-and forth sideways with a nib, you’ll know right away whether the tines are contacting the paper at the same time. Use a VERY light touch and you’ll feel it.

    I’ve had 20-30 Pelicans over time and this isn’t a big, nor an unusual issue. Many dealers, IMO just swap the nibs around and don’t bother to test and tweak them prior to sale.

    There are instances where the nib can be split off-center, but that’ pretty unusual. It should be caught by QC prior to shipment and the nib discarded. You see poorly split nibs much more commonly in vintage pens, not so much with good-quality modern pens.

    Skip


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    This is a lot different from claims that Pelikans are commonly, out of the box, misaligned. Yeah, if you are not careful you can misalign the nib. You could even bend it or break it.

  14. #31
    Senior Member SIR's Avatar
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    Default Re: Misaligned tines on Pelikans

    'Claims' - just the first few from a random forum i found...

    http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/fo...saligned-nibs/
    http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/fo...isaligned-nib/
    http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/fo...d-hard-starts/
    http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/fo...-helpguidance/
    http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/fo...kan-m1000-nib/

    bide a wee... I would still recommend Pelikan pens and their nibs very highly, just wanted to make it clear that there is a well documented record of many Pelikans having misaligned nibs 'out of the box'.

  15. #32
    Senior Member pajaro's Avatar
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    Default Re: Misaligned tines on Pelikans

    I read that stuff. Not so much.

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