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Thread: Scams and Fountain Pens

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    Default Scams and Fountain Pens

    It has been disheartening to hear about the scams that have recently been occurring.

    I would like to point out that my experiences with fountain pen users over the last 4 years has been very positive. I've sold pens, bought pens, traded pens, sampled inks, and had paper sent to me. I find the fountain pen community to be some of the nicest people to converse with.

    Everyone that I've had a chance to communicate with in the fountain pen community have been honest and very congenial. I like that fountain people get along, no matter religion or political views.

    I hope that people do not get discouraged and let a few people ruin the community. It is easy to hear a few bad things and start thinking it is the norm. Again my experience and I'm sure others show that fountain pen users as a group are not out to scam people.
    Last edited by JustinJ; May 18th, 2013 at 09:56 AM.

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    Default Re: Scams and Fountain Pens

    I had experience a bad trade early on in my collecting. My very next trade was with a gentleman by the name of Hari that confirmed that fountain pen people are the best people out there. I recently lost a MB146 to a scammer (not one of the recent ones identified on this board), but will continue to trade because it is so much fun and these people are great. I am happy for FPG allowing us to name and discuss these thieves. FPN would always shut down any conversations about these people. I really don't think there are more thieves out there now, we are just being allowed to name them finally.

    Excuse my early morning pre-coffee ramblings.

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    Default Re: Scams and Fountain Pens

    I am certainly glad that Fountain Pen Geeks allows people to warn us. It is unfortunate that there are dishonest people.

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    Default Re: Scams and Fountain Pens

    This is one area where FPGeeks really proves its worth. The common sense stance taken is what the community needs.
    Latest pen related post @ flounders-mindthots.blogspot.com : '70s Pilot Elite pocket pen review

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    Default Re: Scams and Fountain Pens

    IME, far more than scammers are some pen maker, repair and nib service people (who like in any other profession) sometimes botch up the job and then unfortunately sometimes do not stand behind the customer. I have seen so many such threads started, warning about the experiences which were quickly shut down whatever be the reason. I hope the market feedback forum will allow such experiences also to be recorded.

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    Default Re: Scams and Fountain Pens

    Quote Originally Posted by heraclitus682 View Post
    I had experience a bad trade early on in my collecting. My very next trade was with a gentleman by the name of Hari that confirmed that fountain pen people are the best people out there. I recently lost a MB146 to a scammer (not one of the recent ones identified on this board), but will continue to trade because it is so much fun and these people are great. I am happy for FPG allowing us to name and discuss these thieves. FPN would always shut down any conversations about these people. I really don't think there are more thieves out there now, we are just being allowed to name them finally.

    Excuse my early morning pre-coffee ramblings.
    It has been a pleasure to trade several times with Brian(Heraclitus). He has been very generous in his trades and I have been more than satisfied each time. Thanks so much Brian.

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    Default Re: Scams and Fountain Pens

    Quote Originally Posted by hari317 View Post
    IME, far more than scammers are some pen maker, repair and nib service people (who like in any other profession) sometimes botch up the job and then unfortunately sometimes do not stand behind the customer. I have seen so many such threads started, warning about the experiences which were quickly shut down whatever be the reason. I hope the market feedback forum will allow such experiences also to be recorded.

    I am for market feedback. Honest and good pen people need to be recognized, just as bad or poor nib work needs to be recognized. Thank you Hari for bringing up this point.

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    Default Re: Scams and Fountain Pens

    Yup, I've had WAY more good experiences than bad. I find if I stick with folks I recognize as active forum participants, I can trust them and the transaction is always good. It's those folks who show up and have no useful or helpful posts to their names that are bad experiences.
    ---
    Current pen rotation: way too many!

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    Default Re: Scams and Fountain Pens

    I agree, way more positive trades/buy/sells then negative. I'm glad that this thread was started to reinforce that. Sometimes it's hard to remember all the positive experiences in the wake of something negative and disheartening. They always say in our customer service training that a negative experience will stay with a person far longer, and be told to many more people, then a positive one.

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    Default Re: Scams and Fountain Pens

    Quote Originally Posted by hari317 View Post
    IME, far more than scammers are some pen maker, repair and nib service people (who like in any other profession) sometimes botch up the job and then unfortunately sometimes do not stand behind the customer. I have seen so many such threads started, warning about the experiences which were quickly shut down whatever be the reason. I hope the market feedback forum will allow such experiences also to be recorded.
    In all fairness, I believe no restorer of old pens does (or could) warrant against damage during restoration. Some are gentler than others, but old materials break. This is one reason why restored guaranteed pens sold retail quite properly cost more than raw pens on ebay.

    I "hope" too (and I speak as one who does not repair pens) that the market feedback forum will allow restorers to cite unreasonable customers. Rumor has it that there are far more of those than there are bad restorers...

    zwregards

    david
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    Default Re: Scams and Fountain Pens

    Any commerce is based on some level of calculated risk. I was talking with my son about the local cigar store that puts empty boxes on sale outside their door, and had to explain why they were not worried that someone would just walk by and take one without paying the $3.00. I am pretty sure my son wouldn't do that, but he knows that some people might. It's true that a $3.00 box that has already served its purpose is going to cause less hurt when stolen than an expensive pen, but the principle remains the same.

    The more I remember that people often don't live up to expectations, the less surprised I am when they don't. It doesn't make me trust the system less (except for the five minutes or days after it fails on me). Same for traffic. Boy do I get self righteous when someone pulls in front of me (as if it matters that much), but most people are thoughtful and look out for each other, and trust that others will do the same for them.

    And if you know you can't trust someone, that is really useful information.

    All of this a roundabout way of saying that I am actually surprised things function as well as they do in a system of trust that is both fragile and oddly durable.

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    Default Re: Scams and Fountain Pens

    Quote Originally Posted by david i View Post

    I "hope" too (and I speak as one who does not repair pens) that the market feedback forum will allow restorers to cite unreasonable customers. Rumor has it that there are far more of those than there are bad restorers...
    I think they (service providers, sellers) should also be allowed to cite their problem customers.

    But, at the moment, the market feedback forum rules does not seem to cover that.

    We at FPGeeks feel it is important to be able to inform others about a good or bad experience you may have had with a company, restorer, or nibmeister. If someone or some place continously provides poor service people should be aware of their reputation before spending their money or sending off a treasured pen to be worked on. On the other hand, if you have had great experiences please share those as well.

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    Default Re: Scams and Fountain Pens

    I don't see an exclusion criterion. I see merely an attempt at inclusion. I would not be surprised if an additional word eventually is added...

    regards

    david
    Last edited by david i; May 18th, 2013 at 12:31 PM.
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    Default Re: Scams and Fountain Pens

    Quote Originally Posted by JustinJ View Post
    It has been disheartening to hear about the scams that have recently been occurring.

    I would like to point out that my experiences with fountain pen users over the last 4 years has been very positive. I've sold pens, bought pens, traded pens, sampled inks, and had paper sent to me. I find the fountain pen community to be some of the nicest people to converse with.

    Everyone that I've had a chance to communicate with in the fountain pen community have been honest and very congenial. I like that fountain people get along, no matter religion or political views.

    I hope that people do not get discouraged and let a few people ruin the community. It is easy to hear a few bad things and start thinking it is the norm. Again my experience and I'm sure others show that fountain pen users as a group are not out to scam people.
    That's been my experience as well.

    I can't tell you how many generous people have sent me items and asked nothing in return, so I've tried to do the same.
    My other pen is a Montblanc.

    And my other blog is a tumblr!


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    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CM2NGSSD

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    Default Re: Scams and Fountain Pens

    US-owned and -operated sites like FPG and FPB are explicitly shielded from liability for user-generated content by Section 230 of the otherwise justly maligned Communications Decency Act, so they need not worry about potentially expensive lawsuits, either from scammers looking to silence criticism, or from genuine victims of false reports. It is perfectly safe to run a ‘market feedback’ forum in the US. Other countries have different rules, and the policies of sites owned in such places, however disappointing they are to users, do not necessarily reflect what the owners would otherwise choose to do.

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    Default Re: Scams and Fountain Pens

    So far, I've only had positive experiences buying and doing several very small trades and letter exchanges (ink samples and that sort of thing) -- everything very pleasant. But... I just posted my first classified and the first thing I get is a "wanna trade" from a sketchy-looking profile with one post.

    After this Kirkymalarkey thing, I'll stick to trading letters and trivial things. I won't deny anyone an o-ring if I have extras (I do, for the record, lol), but there's no way I'm sticking any pen above twenty bucks in a box without a Paypal transaction first.

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    Default Re: Scams and Fountain Pens

    Quote Originally Posted by chiaroscuro View Post
    Paypal transaction first.
    And avoid unsafe transaction methods: Bank transfer, Western Union, MoneyGram, Shop Vouchers, etc.

    So far Paypal is okay for me, but YMMV or course. Plenty of horror stories even with that.. Not sure with IBAN in Europe, I'm not there.. :-)

    Woe unto you Canada for having Kirkylarky! If your own citizen for some (strange) reason could not rely on your fancy dressed policing, we shall treat you the same as Somalia in pen trading cred!*

    Tongue firmly in cheek.

    *except respectable people like drgoretex

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    Default Re: Scams and Fountain Pens

    Actually, oddly enough, I recently lost a MB 146 and a few other pens to a "trader" in Canada. I know it sounds crazy, but with that, and the kirkylarky stuff, I am reluctant to send my pens to Canada.

    Brian

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    Default Re: Scams and Fountain Pens

    In the short year that I've been collecting, my experience has also been quite good; most of the pens I got were working out-of-box, and virtually everyone involved in transactions was pleasant. In fact, I have to give thanks to someone on FPGeeks for sending a Lamy 2000 my way (if you're reading this, thanks Betty!) and also for just how nice in general the community can be. (Regardless of the malignancy towards FPN) I mean, look at their Pay-It-Forward thread. I know FPN can be considered a little...Wacky, at times, but it still shows, to some degree, just how nice the pen collecting community can be.

    I do have to say though, after all the dust from the kirky...what's-his-name incident settled, I'll probably be sticking to more local trades, where it's possible to meet in person to chat/write. The other part would be not to throw accusations around; especially after the finger-pointing at renpei I saw. It's not surprising, considering how a similar thing went down at another forum I used to frequent. It's easy to get worked up over a loss, but, as I see it, life always was a game of give and take. You'll win some, you'll lose some.
    Currently obsessed with: Parker 51s and Sheaffer Targas.

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    Default Re: Scams and Fountain Pens

    I have only traded once - with someone from Greece (on FPN). Everything went smoothly, and we both got what we wanted. I was extremely nervous about the trade prior to it taking place, but it seemed like he had traded quite a bit in the past, so despite my intial paranoia, I went ahead with it.

    Of course, scammers and liars can be found in every corner of the world, in any and every community. I don't think that it's possible to avoid them completely. However, I do believe that given the size of the online FP community, we're not doing too badly right now. Almost everyone I have talked to, or bought/sold pens from seemed like honest, nice people.

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