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Thread: Steel nibs on a Sheaffer Snorkel?

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    Default Steel nibs on a Sheaffer Snorkel?

    I've come across a Snorkel that is apparently fitted with a conical steel nib. Is that the case or is it more likely palladium?

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    Default Re: Steel nibs on a Sheaffer Snorkel?


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    Default Re: Steel nibs on a Sheaffer Snorkel?

    I'm pretty sure it should be stamped PdAg if it is Palladium Silver. If it isn't then it's likely to be steel.
    Regards, Chrissy | My Review Blog: inkyfountainpens

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    Default Re: Steel nibs on a Sheaffer Snorkel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrissy View Post
    I'm pretty sure it should be stamped PdAg if it is Palladium Silver. If it isn't then it's likely to be steel.
    In the immediate post-snorkel era there were some short conical nibs that were not hallmarked that many assume are steel but some also suspect could be unhallmarked PdAg but oddly none have solved this important vintage pen mystery (See: imperial II. Imperial II DLX and Skripsert pens).

    Sheaffer did odd things like that time to time. Note that the Imperial III pens are two-tone but rather than being gold with a platinum mask they are rumored (one model I don't own) to be the standard PdAg nibs with gold plating on the bottom. It is guessed that the machinery was all set up to run all PdAg nibs and that is also why some guess that short ones often advertised as steel could also be PdAg.

    There were no steel conical nib snorkels. ever. As far as I know.
    Last edited by stub; November 6th, 2018 at 03:53 AM.

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    Default Re: Steel nibs on a Sheaffer Snorkel?

    Quote Originally Posted by AzJon View Post
    I've come across a Snorkel that is apparently fitted with a conical steel nib. Is that the case or is it more likely palladium?
    The white metal conical nibs, even unhalmarked ones are all Clippers and Statesman with PdAg nibs. It was once thought that the one with the diagonal script "Palladium Silver" had higher Palladium content but that has been debunked. They are all the same. I think something like 95%Pd and 5%Ag. Maybe experts will chime in.

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    Default Re: Steel nibs on a Sheaffer Snorkel?

    Quote Originally Posted by stub View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrissy View Post
    I'm pretty sure it should be stamped PdAg if it is Palladium Silver. If it isn't then it's likely to be steel.
    In the immediate post-snorkel era there were some short conical nibs that were not hallmarked that many assume are steel but some also suspect could be unhallmarked PdAg but oddly none have solved this important vintage pen mystery (See: imperial II. Imperial II DLX and Skripsert pens).

    Sheaffer did odd things like that time to time. Note that the Imperial III pens are two-tone but rather than being gold with a platinum mask they are rumored (one model I don't own) to be the standard PdAg nibs with gold plating on the bottom. It is guessed that the machinery was all set up to run all PdAg nibs and that is also why some guess that short ones often advertised as steel could also be PdAg.

    There were no steel conical nib snorkels. ever. As far as I know.
    Yes, that's odd. How do they expect people to know the difference?
    Regards, Chrissy | My Review Blog: inkyfountainpens

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    Default Re: Steel nibs on a Sheaffer Snorkel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrissy View Post
    Yes, that's odd. How do they expect people to know the difference?
    One hypothesis I have heard is that they didn't expect or want you to know. They left it purposely vague because they didn't want to hurt the sales of the gold nibs. If folks knew they could get PdAg nibs much cheaper a lot of folks mightn't have bothered to pay more for a gold nib.

    As anyone who has switched back and forth between a Snorkel Statesman and a Snorkel Valiant will tell you, both the PdAg nibs and the 14k nibs are fantastic. The difference are more down to aesthetics and whether the person who hand finished your nib in Iowa had a good lunch or not.

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    Default Re: Steel nibs on a Sheaffer Snorkel?

    95% palladium would be much more expensive than 58.5% gold.

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    Default Re: Steel nibs on a Sheaffer Snorkel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Farmboy View Post
    95% palladium would be much more expensive than 58.5% gold.
    Today or when the PdAg nibs went into production?

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    Default Re: Steel nibs on a Sheaffer Snorkel?

    The pen looks like a Statesman. The link that Elim gave to Richard Binder's site does mention steel nibs, but I can't find an example of them anywhere. Given the lack of corrosion and shininess of the nib, I'm inclined to believe stub.

    The nib in question:


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    Default Re: Steel nibs on a Sheaffer Snorkel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Farmboy View Post
    95% palladium would be much more expensive than 58.5% gold.
    Not historically. Gold has always been above $1000/oz, but palladium, according to charts dating to the 80s was in the $150 range for quite some time. Not sure the value in the 50s/60s, but the value of palladium has only recently reached gold value levels.

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    Default Re: Steel nibs on a Sheaffer Snorkel?

    Quote Originally Posted by AzJon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Farmboy View Post
    95% palladium would be much more expensive than 58.5% gold.
    Not historically. Gold has always been above $1000/oz, but palladium, according to charts dating to the 80s was in the $150 range for quite some time. Not sure the value in the 50s/60s, but the value of palladium has only recently reached gold value levels.
    This is completely incorrect. Gold has not always been above $1,000/oz; it first reached that level only 10 years ago, and it was $35/oz (yes, thirty-five dollars an ounce) during the run of the Snorkel pen. Palladium was more expensive than gold from 1911 through 1930, 1967-1970, and 1999-2002. Palladium exceeded $1,000/oz in 2001--years before gold reached that level.

    --Daniel

    P.S. Sheaffer's PdAg nib alloy formulation is 30% palladium, 50% silver, and 10% each copper and gold.
    Last edited by kirchh; November 6th, 2018 at 11:27 AM.
    “Every discussion which is made from an egoistic standpoint is corrupted from the start and cannot yield an absolutely sure conclusion. The ego puts its own interest first and twists every argument, word, even fact to suit that interest.”
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    Default Re: Steel nibs on a Sheaffer Snorkel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Farmboy View Post
    95% palladium would be much more expensive than 58.5% gold.
    Farmboy is generally correct for when the Snorkel was introduced. Ignoring the other alloying elements, a 95% palladium nib would be about 12% more expensive than a 14K nib of equivalent mass.

    --Daniel
    “Every discussion which is made from an egoistic standpoint is corrupted from the start and cannot yield an absolutely sure conclusion. The ego puts its own interest first and twists every argument, word, even fact to suit that interest.”
    ― Paul Brunton, The Notebooks of Paul Brunton

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    Default Re: Steel nibs on a Sheaffer Snorkel?

    Quote Originally Posted by kirchh View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AzJon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Farmboy View Post
    95% palladium would be much more expensive than 58.5% gold.
    Not historically. Gold has always been above $1000/oz, but palladium, according to charts dating to the 80s was in the $150 range for quite some time. Not sure the value in the 50s/60s, but the value of palladium has only recently reached gold value levels.
    This is completely incorrect. Gold has not always been above $1,000/oz; it first reached that level only 10 years ago, and it was $35/oz (yes, thirty-five dollars an ounce) during the run of the Snorkel pen. Palladium was more expensive than gold from 1911 through 1930, 1967-1970, and 1999-2002. Palladium exceeded $1,000/oz in 2001--years before gold reached that level.

    --Daniel

    P.S. Sheaffer's PdAg nib alloy formulation is 30% palladium, 50% silver, and 10% each copper and gold.
    I was going off of this tracker dating to 1987 https://www.macrotrends.net/2542/pal...cal-chart-data that accounts for inflation. So my original statement is incorrect.

    If you have information on the price of palladium from 1911-1930 or 1967-1970, I would be interested in seeing it.

    100 years of gold value: https://www.macrotrends.net/1333/his...100-year-chart

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    Default Re: Steel nibs on a Sheaffer Snorkel?

    Last edited by kirchh; November 6th, 2018 at 03:15 PM.
    “Every discussion which is made from an egoistic standpoint is corrupted from the start and cannot yield an absolutely sure conclusion. The ego puts its own interest first and twists every argument, word, even fact to suit that interest.”
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    Default Re: Steel nibs on a Sheaffer Snorkel?

    Quote Originally Posted by kirchh View Post
    Merci.

    To any end: I can not find any evidence anywhere that steel conical nibs existed on a Sheaffer pen.

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    Default Re: Steel nibs on a Sheaffer Snorkel?

    It never occurred to me that my Skripsert was made with anything other than steel (it says nothing on the outside either way). Go figure.

    Much to learn, I still have...

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    Default Re: Steel nibs on a Sheaffer Snorkel?

    Quote Originally Posted by kirchh View Post
    P.S. Sheaffer's PdAg nib alloy formulation is 30% palladium, 50% silver, and 10% each copper and gold.
    THANK YOU for this. I always wanted to know this. Bravo.

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    Default Re: Steel nibs on a Sheaffer Snorkel?

    Quote Originally Posted by azkid View Post
    It never occurred to me that my Skripsert was made with anything other than steel (it says nothing on the outside either way). Go figure.

    Much to learn, I still have...
    If you say so Yoda.
    Regards, Chrissy | My Review Blog: inkyfountainpens

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    Default Re: Steel nibs on a Sheaffer Snorkel?

    No steel sheath points; white metal nibs of that shape are PdAg.

    --Daniel
    “Every discussion which is made from an egoistic standpoint is corrupted from the start and cannot yield an absolutely sure conclusion. The ego puts its own interest first and twists every argument, word, even fact to suit that interest.”
    ― Paul Brunton, The Notebooks of Paul Brunton

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