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Thread: Considerations of dimension

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Considerations of dimension

    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_of_Clouds View Post
    Appreciate the suggestion, but to pay such a large amount of money for a pen that has a nib normally used on a sub $100 pen... I don't consider that to be good value. Besides which, in my case, the whole desk pen approach doesn't really address the need to carry a pen. (I'm not carrying a desk pen around with me )
    That is not my experience. How many sub $100 pens have gold nibs?

    ETA: I just checked the Goulet pens page. Of the pens in their $50-100 range, I didn't find any gold nibs. You have high (unrealistically so, IMHO) expectations of what you should be able to purchase, and for how much, or rather little - but to say the Nakaya nib is "normally used" on a sub $100 pen is either disingenuous or delusional.


    Enough. I made a suggestion, and you responded with an inaccurate dismissal. You say you want to mend fences, but you show no effort in that direction.
    Last edited by empliau; November 16th, 2018 at 11:46 AM.

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    Senior Member ethernautrix's Avatar
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    Default Re: Considerations of dimension

    Empliau, pretty sure EOC was referring to Platinum 3776 pens with 14kt nibs, available through vendors in Japan for less than $100. But those are injected plastic molded [whatever the term is) versus the turned on a foot-pedalled lathe ebonite coated with urushi, which is where the expense lies.

    I've carried my Desk Pen around, but he's right. I prefer carrying my Nakaya Piccolos. One of them has a 14kt UEF nib that I "scavenged" from a 3776 (blue one, now "headless").
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  3. #23
    Senior Member Empty_of_Clouds's Avatar
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    Default Re: Considerations of dimension

    The 3776 is what I was referring to regarding the Nakaya nibs. As far as I understood it they are interchangeable. The 3776 can be had for under $100 easily. At the price point of the Nakaya I would expect something more spectacular in the nib department. That's just how I feel about it.

    Anyway, that's getting away from the discussion of dimensions.

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    Default Re: Considerations of dimension

    Clearly if one feels compelled to ask the question, it matters.

  5. #25
    Senior Member KBeezie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Considerations of dimension

    Quote Originally Posted by empliau View Post
    That is not my experience. How many sub $100 pens have gold nibs?

    ETA: I just checked the Goulet pens page. Of the pens in their $50-100 range, I didn't find any gold nibs. You have high (unrealistically so, IMHO) expectations of what you should be able to purchase, and for how much, or rather little - but to say the Nakaya nib is "normally used" on a sub $100 pen is either disingenuous or delusional.
    When factoring in both Vintage as well as Pens from places other than Goulet (ie: from Japan Directly).

    A lot.

    On the New in Box from Japan under $100 shipped with 14K gold nibs you have :

    - Platinum Century #3776 with Ultra Fine, EF, F, M, B, BB/C, Music*, and soft Fine (* usually carries a premium)
    - Pilot Custom 74 EF/F/M/B/SF/SFM/SM
    - Resin version of the Pilot Falcon (teeters just around the 100 mark, metal version around 130)
    - Nearly every Sailor 1911M and Pro Gear Slim (the 1911L or Pro Gears about 20-30 more)
    - Pilot E95 (and a lot of the 1970s Pilot Elites have 14k and 18k nibs for under $50)
    - A few of the Pilot/Sailor/Platinum models you don't normally see in the US, such as the PTL-5,000 and PTL-10,000

    On the Vintage Side, 14k and 18k nibs that can usually find under $100 restored (depending on rarity of body color or popularity can fluctuate above that especially if they're trying to pitch it as pristine)
    - Parker 45, 51, 61, and 75 (some cheaper 45s and 51s do have steel nibs, but can get the 14k version under 100)
    - Pilot Elites from the 1970s
    - Platinum and Sailor Pocket pens of the 1960s and 1970s
    - Pelikan 140 (almost always a semi-flex 14K gold nib, usually if you can get a seller in Germany)
    - Sheaffer Touchdowns, Snorkels, Lfietimes, etc
    - Eversharp Skylines (almost as common as finding Parker 45s and 51s, just more popular for the gold filled caps)
    - and there's like two dozen more that I'm forgetting to mention just in the US market alone.

    Short of my Lamy AL-Star, A Sheaffer Imperial 440, and a Platinum Preppy, all of my pens have 14k, 18k, or 21k nibs, and are mostly vintage, and mostly around the $100-200 range. And far as their design/holding goes, a lot of them are already in the fashion that I like that are comfortable, but I also don't need a huge pen which wasn't as common in the vintage line ups (Sheaffer Oversized for example fetch a pretty penny).
    Last edited by KBeezie; November 17th, 2018 at 08:49 PM.

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    Senior Member VertOlive's Avatar
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    Default Re: Considerations of dimension

    The only pens I've passed off to other homes were too heavy (big, metal Jinhaous for instance) or extremely thin.

    The girth sizes in my collection range from the chunky FC19 to a dainty Hero 715, and lengths go from the elfin Moonman Wancai to the katana-like Nakaya desk pen. I enjoy the variety.

    I have to say that I've never suffered hand fatigue with any of my pens, but I rarely write more than 10 double sided pages.
    Last edited by VertOlive; December 3rd, 2018 at 08:14 PM.
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    Default Re: Considerations of dimension

    Sadly, yes, size matters these days, as i recently learned with a nice 51 set I had plans for. Just too thin feeling and hard to hold. Thanks arthritis. My new Bexley Intrepid has rapidly become my go to pen. It's a big yet lightweight piece that fills my hand nicely. I REALLY want to find a stub nib unit for it, but most of what i am seeing out there are the 'smaller' #6 size units. I need something in the 'larger than' size club to maintain the nib/pen size ratio. I tried a unit from a levenger true writer and it just looked so anemic.

    *The levenger unit was too thin to fit properly, it was a mock up/ drop in to see what it would look like.
    Last edited by Elim; December 4th, 2018 at 12:58 AM.

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  11. #28
    Senior Member calamus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Considerations of dimension

    I'm not sure why, but I don't really like writing with thin or short fountain pens. I've never really liked writing with a pencil stub either, but the girth of a pencil never bothered me. I'm not sure why that is, considering that I really don't like pens that thin. My immediate hunch is that pencils pretty much come in one standard size. There are thicker ones, but those are primarily for little kids, so once I became a big kid, it was a source of pride to have graduated to a grownup's sized pencil. And the whole experience of writing or drawing with a pencil is very different from writing or drawing with pen and ink. Pencil is its own thing, and depending on the softness or hardness of the lead, and whether you're doing delicate shading or hard-edges lines or something else, the way you handle it varies. It's like another universe or another dimension.

    Pens, on the other hand, come in a huge variety or lengths, widths, weights, shapes, balance points, and so forth, so we get to choose what we like, as opposed to having to learn to accept one size only. And again, the act of laying down a line of ink with a pen is very different from laying down a line of graphite with pencil. In addition, it varies tremendously from person to person, and is even influenced by the ink and paper we use. The pressure applied by one person on smooth paper with a wet pen and a wet ink would be lighter than the pressure that person would apply on a toothier paper with a dryer nib or ink or combination. And that's the same person. Add another person into the equation, and it would vary even more.

    So it becomes a very personal thing. And after a while people figure out what pens they like, what inks, what papers.

    For me, comfort plays a huge role. As much as I enjoy wielding a pen that I love, where it becomes sublime is when the pen becomes almost like an extension of my hand, and I cease to be aware of it. Whether I'm writing or drawing, ultimately, it's what I write or draw that's of primary importance. I hate it if I become aware of the pen feeling awkward in my hand, or the nib feels scratchy or skips, or anything else happens to distract me from the creative act
    .
    Now, on the other hand, there are times when I'm, say, writing a letter, that I am very conscious of the pen in a good way. At those time I revel in the feel of the pen's movement as it glides across the page, forming letters or flourishes or shapes. But there too the pen has to be comfortable, and I have to have struck the happy confluence of right pen, right ink and right paper.

    I haven't tried a lot of pens, and only own a handful. The ones I keep going to are my Sailor 1911 standard and my Pilot Custom 74. I love both of them. I use the Sailor posted only, and the Pilot, which is longer, posted half the time and unposted half the time. Neither one feels unbalanced posted or unposted, but the Sailor is just a tiny bit too short to feel right in my hand when I write with it unposted. Posted, it's perfect.
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    Default Re: Considerations of dimension

    Very interesting perspective. It would seem, to me at least, that the comfort of a pen in the hand is rather like that of the right shoe on your foot. To expand slightly, shoes may be sold in "standard" sizes but they don't all fit the same. Many pens appear to be more or less the same size and yet some feel more comfortable than others. Why that is so remains a mystery to me, and may lie in an arcane combination of many factors rather than just one or two. Perhaps that's what drives a lot of us to experiment with different models and makes?

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    Senior Member dfo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Considerations of dimension

    I really like the size of a Pilot 912. The girth of the section and length of the barrel is very comfortable. However, a Sailor Pro Gear some how fits my large hands perfectly—down to the short section and short barrel. It is the most comfortable pen I own. On paper, the pen sections should be the same, but they feel very different. That said, when I am writing for hours a day, I usually switch between four pens of different sizes, which somehow aids in comfort. . __.

    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_of_Clouds View Post
    Very interesting perspective. It would seem, to me at least, that the comfort of a pen in the hand is rather like that of the right shoe on your foot. To expand slightly, shoes may be sold in "standard" sizes but they don't all fit the same. Many pens appear to be more or less the same size and yet some feel more comfortable than others. Why that is so remains a mystery to me, and may lie in an arcane combination of many factors rather than just one or two. Perhaps that's what drives a lot of us to experiment with different models and makes?
    "Love is the final fight."

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    Default Re: Considerations of dimension

    I personally think that my limit, in size and not girth, is that of a Safari, the smaller the better. Bigger pens are too cumbersome to carry around in my pockets.

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  19. #32
    Senior Member VertOlive's Avatar
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    Default Re: Considerations of dimension

    Quote Originally Posted by aquafox View Post
    I personally think that my limit, in size and not girth, is that of a Safari, the smaller the better. Bigger pens are too cumbersome to carry around in my pockets.
    Probably, of all my pens, the Safaris come closest to ideal girth, length, and weight.
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