Considerations of dimension

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Does your pen size matter?


Fountain pens, both modern and vintage, are made in a assortment of sizes. Slender and long, fat and short, every combination you can think of. Why is this? After all, a standard pencil is, what, 6mm diameter and approx 170mm long. Most of us have used pencils to either write or draw or doodle, and many of us still do. Outside of lead holders or mechanical pencils though there doesn't seem to be any clamour for pencils in the variety of sizes that are either accepted or demanded of fountain pens.

So, what is it about the fountain pen that distinguishes it from a standard pencil with regards to the general fit to hand?



For me, short pens (barrel length of 100mm or less) run the risk of not sitting on the thumb-forefinger web and dropping into the palm of the hand. However, a lot of pens fall into a relatively narrow range of lengths that I would consider short, and often these pens are unbalanced when posted, with the weight of the cap subtly lifting the nib from the page.

Then there is girth. My fattest pen (custom made) is about 15mm diameter at the section. The thinnest (a Waterman 52 currently) is around 8mm diameter on the section. Lots of pens fall within this range, but does a single millimetre really make that much of a difference?

Here's a (bad) photo that shows the extreme range in my "collection".




In my very limited experience of using any kind of writing tool (pencils, ballpoints, fountain pens, brushes and so on) my observation is that if the tool is held correctly then the girth where the fingers rest is really not that critical (within certain parameters of course, a foot wide section is obviously only going to be suitable for the Hulk!).

Whether this observation can be generalised to the writing community is unclear, because an informal search around the internet reveals a lot of "incorrect" grips out there. However, if an "incorrect" grip allows a person to make a satisfactory mark on the paper, can it be considered "incorrect"? Perhaps that is a question for another time.

[although]

I expect that everyone will have a different answer for what are the best pen dimensions... In my case, after trying a fair few pens, I've come to the conclusion that the designs I prefer are standard size pens, not too heavy, without the military style high-mount clip. Some good examples are Sheaffer Balance standard, Sailor 1911 standard, Sheaffer Imperial, Platinum 3776. I'm not too picky about colors or filling systems. I've got big pens and pocket pens. But, I find that the ones I reach for again and again are the boring basic average size plastic pens that do everything well and don't have any bad habits... I'm just a boring person at heart

[KBeezie]

Depends for me, it's more about the balance or the length with me. I've enjoyed both tiny little pens like my old Wahl #2 self filler, but also had larger pens around the Pelikan M800 kind of size and up.

There's a lot of trade off stuff in my mind. Like you mentioned, if the pen is very skinny then it needs to have a longer section and body for easier holding, or at least post very well. With a thicker pen, it needs to be balanced well from the front and back or it's not as enjoyable.

For example, I like my Pelikan M640 more than the M805 I had, the M640 is a tad heavier and thicker (at the barrel), but the length is shorter with a smaller nib size. But it feels more balanced in the hand with the thicker barrel bulge resting comfortably in my palm. (A Faber-Castell BASIC had a similar weight and length, but the balance was too back-heavy)

Another example that comes to mind is the Platinum PTL-5,000 and PTL-10,000, it's rather interesting what a difference a tiny bit of extra thickness does between those two models (But also they have different nibs).

You may have also noticed the Sailor 1911L and Platinum Century 3776 appear very similar in size capped, nearly the same thickness, but shorter at the nib and section on the Platinum enough so that the 1911L feels nicer in the long run.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Actually, you've raised another very interesting aspect. Nibs vary quite considerably in length. In my pictures above you can see a Jowo #6 and a Waterman #2 nib. The Jowo is considerably longer than the Waterman. The upshot of this is that the fingers of the writing hand are going to be further away from the paper when using the Jowo. How does this affect the overall ergonomics of the pen? And how does this impact on how the writing hand addresses the paper? This latter may be important because if you have a big nib you will have to cant your hand upward at the fingertip end, and this puts extra stress on the wrist which could lead to increased fatigue.

As I understand it, and I am very short on knowledge in this, there are some very small vintage nibs (like a #0 size) and some simply enormous modern nibs (like the Namiki #50).

[catbert]

... After all, a standard pencil is, what, 6mm diameter and approx 170mm long. Most of us have used pencils to either write or draw or doodle, and many of us still do. Outside of lead holders or mechanical pencils though there doesn't seem to be any clamour for pencils in the variety of sizes that are either accepted or demanded of fountain pens.

So, what is it about the fountain pen that distinguishes it from a standard pencil [I]with regards to the general fit to hand?

Interesting point about pencils. I used to break mine in half, preferring a stubbier length.

My most comfortable pens are also on the shorter side: 110–130mm uncapped (I don’t post). I like a pen that reaches the web of my hand but doesn't project very far beyond the back of my hand, if at all.
Preferred girth at section: 9–11mm.
Weight is more of deal-breaker. Beyond, say, 25g (probably less) gets fatiguing.

Actually, you've raised another very interesting aspect. Nibs vary quite considerably in length. In my pictures above you can see a Jowo #6 and a Waterman #2 nib. The Jowo is considerably longer than the Waterman. The upshot of this is that the fingers of the writing hand are going to be further away from the paper when using the Jowo. How does this affect the overall ergonomics of the pen? And how does this impact on how the writing hand addresses the paper? This latter may be important because if you have a big nib you will have to cant your hand upward at the fingertip end, and this puts extra stress on the wrist which could lead to increased fatigue.

As I understand it, and I am very short on knowledge in this, there are some very small vintage nibs (like a #0 size) and some simply enormous modern nibs (like the Namiki #50).

Re nib length: with a forefinger-up grip (forefinger lies on top of the section at about 1 o’clock as viewed from behind the pen) the distance from the tip of the forefinger to the tip of the nib is usually around 20-30mm, regardless of nib size. No experience with outlandishly big nibs, though.

[penwash]

For me, size matters and size doesn't matter.

What I mean by that is that I can see the coolness and be able to enjoy writing (mostly sketching really) with fountain pens of various sizes.



I do tend to prefer chunky barrel than slim ones. For example I cannot enjoy writing with a Sailor Chalana, but I know a lot of people love them and some with larger hands than mine (medium sized).

[titrisol]

Fat pens dont sit well in my hands, but large nibs (6) in pens like Bexley are just fine

It is more a balance thing than anything.. top heavy pens are bad and lately I enjoy lighter pens

[AzJon]

I find that I can get my hands accustomed to any pen, more or less. I use a standard sized Sheaffer Admiral for most work related writing and have no real issue. At home, I use a Visconti Voyager and a Montblanc 146 predominantly. It does take a few minutes (or paragraphs) of writing before my hand "remembers" how to use a pen of a different length/girth, but it always figures it out.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

It's interesting, isn't it?

For me the length of the pen has greater impact than the girth.

[azkid]

I have recently been pondering girth and length and weight parameters. Curious to see if I could discern any patterns, I measured my pens.

I started this effort as I began having hand cramping pain writing with one of my pens. The grip seemed "too small".

My pens range from 7.3mm (Sheaffer Balance) to 11.7mm (Kakunos). My favorite pens have a girth of 9.0-10.5mm.

I don't seem to notice pens unless the grip is outside my preferred range by 2mm or so.

For me, besides portability, length doesn't matter so long as the pen is supported on web of my thumb.

Weight isn't a huge deal; my favorite pens weigh 6-17g, body only. But I almost never write with my 30g Jinhaos. They feel "too heavy." My Metro (17g) and Stargazer (16g) are at on the upper end of tolerable heft.

Balance matters. I currently prefer to write without posting the cap because usually the balance is too far off otherwise.

I used these parameters when shopping for my latest pen, a Pilot Stargazer which falls within the ballpark of these ranges.

I am happy, but not surprised, to find it is an absolutely comfortable joy to use.

[NibsForScript]

I find I like to hold a pen in different locations at different times, but commonly quite aways from the nib. I like a smooth feel and no thread or step. My favorite three pens fit into that category and the rest have either a thread or small step that I deal with.

[KBeezie]

Though you ever wonder, other than short of being a designer/creator, if a lot of the overstimulation is simply thinking about the details too much and wondering what is the perfect formula for the best pen?

[Empty_of_Clouds]

A reasonable point, but most of the variation in designs happened during the "golden age", so the overstimulation is not new (I think).

[KBeezie]

A reasonable point, but most of the variation in designs happened during the "golden age", so the overstimulation is not new (I think).

Of course, but it's new to some of us. Especially with so many choices to pick from in our quest to find our best.

[RocketRyan]

I find grip more important than girth for anything other than long writing sessions.

[empliau]

If you're going to the SF pen show, you should be able to try a Nakaya desk pen. They are long but beautifully balanced. My hands are large for a woman my size, and I adore the feel of my desk pen, but it's plenty long even for the hands you describe - and I didn't dare buy till I actually tried one at a show. To me it would be worth far more than I paid, and I paid John M.'s price. I also strongly recommend the trumpet stand if you buy a Nakaya (not the 17mm, that doesn't fit) - I use my pen even more now that I can just place it in its stand rather than screwing the top on. YMMV, as always.

[ethernautrix]

I'll second the Nakaya Desk Pen. I've persuaded plenty of people with various hand sizes to try mine, and all have attested to its comfortable weight and balance.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Appreciate the suggestion, but to pay such a large amount of money for a pen that has a nib normally used on a sub $100 pen... I don't consider that to be good value. Besides which, in my case, the whole desk pen approach doesn't really address the need to carry a pen. (I'm not carrying a desk pen around with me )

[empliau]

Appreciate the suggestion, but to pay such a large amount of money for a pen that has a nib normally used on a sub $100 pen... I don't consider that to be good value. Besides which, in my case, the whole desk pen approach doesn't really address the need to carry a pen. (I'm not carrying a desk pen around with me )

That is not my experience. How many sub $100 pens have gold nibs?

[KBeezie]

That is not my experience. How many sub $100 pens have gold nibs?

ETA: I just checked the Goulet pens page. Of the pens in their $50-100 range, I didn't find any gold nibs. You have high (unrealistically so, IMHO) expectations of what you should be able to purchase, and for how much, or rather little - but to say the Nakaya nib is "normally used" on a sub $100 pen is either disingenuous or delusional.

When factoring in both Vintage as well as Pens from places other than Goulet (ie: from Japan Directly).

A lot.

On the New in Box from Japan under $100 shipped with 14K gold nibs you have :

- Platinum Century #3776 with Ultra Fine, EF, F, M, B, BB/C, Music*, and soft Fine (* usually carries a premium)
- Pilot Custom 74 EF/F/M/B/SF/SFM/SM
- Resin version of the Pilot Falcon (teeters just around the 100 mark, metal version around 130)
- Nearly every Sailor 1911M and Pro Gear Slim (the 1911L or Pro Gears about 20-30 more)
- Pilot E95 (and a lot of the 1970s Pilot Elites have 14k and 18k nibs for under $50)
- A few of the Pilot/Sailor/Platinum models you don't normally see in the US, such as the PTL-5,000 and PTL-10,000

On the Vintage Side, 14k and 18k nibs that can usually find under $100 restored (depending on rarity of body color or popularity can fluctuate above that especially if they're trying to pitch it as pristine)
- Parker 45, 51, 61, and 75 (some cheaper 45s and 51s do have steel nibs, but can get the 14k version under 100)
- Pilot Elites from the 1970s
- Platinum and Sailor Pocket pens of the 1960s and 1970s
- Pelikan 140 (almost always a semi-flex 14K gold nib, usually if you can get a seller in Germany)
- Sheaffer Touchdowns, Snorkels, Lfietimes, etc
- Eversharp Skylines (almost as common as finding Parker 45s and 51s, just more popular for the gold filled caps)
- and there's like two dozen more that I'm forgetting to mention just in the US market alone.

Short of my Lamy AL-Star, A Sheaffer Imperial 440, and a Platinum Preppy, all of my pens have 14k, 18k, or 21k nibs, and are mostly vintage, and mostly around the $100-200 range. And far as their design/holding goes, a lot of them are already in the fashion that I like that are comfortable, but I also don't need a huge pen which wasn't as common in the vintage line ups (Sheaffer Oversized for example fetch a pretty penny).