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Thread: Onoto models and nib sizes

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    Default Onoto models and nib sizes

    I have two Onoto models, both with rather small nibs. I am looking for a bit of flex and preferably a bit larger size nib. I have no idea about the standard of nib sizes, but in my mind a Swan 4 is sort of medium and Montblanc Meisterstück on the large side. Buying from the web makes it difficult to actually know what I get until I have it in my hands. Do any of you have an Onoto model with a larger size nib? I just need something to go on, a point of referance when I search on ebay and various other speciality stores.

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    Default Re: Onoto models and nib sizes

    To give me a better picture of what you are after, what are your present Onoto pen models please? Are their nibs labelled with a number, and if so then what?

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    Default Re: Onoto models and nib sizes

    i have no idea, plunger fillers

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    Default Re: Onoto models and nib sizes

    Sorry for the silly reply. On a closer look I noticed "de la rue 2 onoto" on the nib on the pen in the bottom of the picture. The pen with the upper feed is about the same size, maybe a bit larger, but basically differently shaped. I have not been able to identify the models.



    Last edited by arrow; November 13th, 2020 at 05:24 PM.

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    Default Re: Onoto models and nib sizes

    Thank you. Nice pens. The top one is an 'N' model (later the 3000) from 1905-1920. The the bottom harder to tell but on that one, using magnification, you should find a four-digit number on the blind cap. It can be hard to read, especially because sometimes they put the pin through the number.

    However, we know you have No 2 nibs and are after something larger, with more flexibility? First step up is a model with a No 3 or 3/ST nib. These are about the same length but slightly wider, with variation. Like the No 2, those are quite common in Onotos up to the 1940s.

    A step up is the No 5 although less common. It can be found in the post-war 6234 or 6235. The grand master of Onoto nibs is the No 7, which I know of only on the Magna, though it might be a bit large by your criteria. Great pens. Could be considered expensive. You have not mentioned any budget.

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    Default Re: Onoto models and nib sizes

    Thanks for the expert advice. I shall search a bit for your recommendations this weekend and see what I can find. I have been focusing on nibs lately, and Swans, Toledo and some Onotos look very tempting. I have to try different things to get to know what's available out there.

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    Default Re: Onoto models and nib sizes

    I know the nib size doesn't mean much, a small one can behave in every which way like a larger one. I can't tell the number on the botton pen, I think it ends with ..99.

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    Default Re: Onoto models and nib sizes

    That could be the 2-character appellation one finds on the opposite side to the number, unless you can see marks of other numbers to make up four digits. I did not find any models ending in 99 (nor starting 66) although some end in 9, e.g. the 7409 of 1929. The number at the base is read with the pen held nib-up.

    Yours reminds me most of a 3050 or 4601 (both 1930s, No 2 nib), although I can not positively identify it.

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    Default Re: Onoto models and nib sizes

    The pen looks like it's ebonite, or hardened rubber at least. It's a medium sized pen, a bit longer than my Pelikan 400N. The numbers are lost, the twist cap on top doesn't have the same shine as the rest of the pen, so maybe a bit worn. It still has the arrow showing which way to loosen the plunger though. I don't mind too much, perhaps I shall bump into an identical pen with model numbers still intact one day. You might be correct with the 3050 guess, since it doesn't have the band on the cap? Maybe I should settle for Model 3050, at least until more is revealed.

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    Default Re: Onoto models and nib sizes

    Ebonite and hard rubber are the same thing. I would guess that the barrel and cap of your pen are celluloid with a hard rubber blind cap and clip screw and that's why the blind cap doesn't look as shiny as the rest.

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    Default Re: Onoto models and nib sizes

    It could be some sort of celluloid, it's just as smooth and nice, but the pen doesn't feel quite as hard as other vintage pens I have (with mother of pearl effect). It feels pretty close to the dropper filler, yet not quite. Personally I cannot rule out anything. They had various plastics back then, phenol types / resin, bakelite, bexoide, lucite, pearlite celluloid; similar stuff made from wood pulp, corn, soybean, lactose,... I don't know if I could tell the difference or if the names are synonymous. It's a simple basic pen, elegant, nothing fancy like mother of pear with gold trims.

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    Default Re: Onoto models and nib sizes

    They may have had the plastics you mention but most of them were not used for pens. Bakelite was rarely and briefly used and found to break too easily. Of course that doesn't stop some eBay sellers identifying every black hard rubber pen as Bakelite. I think you're making something quite simple difficult for yourself. De La Rue used hard rubber and celluloid until the 50s when more modern plastics were used for the final models.

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    Default Re: Onoto models and nib sizes

    I guess it's celluloid then, it feels slightly harder than the dropperfiller, which is suppose to be hard rubber. I don't have any other Onotos to compare with but it doesn't have the same feel as the coloured pens with pearl or marble effects. As mentioned, they feel harder. The pen I have is one of a relatively common Onoto type, and I would guess it is made of the same as other similar models. Some sellers on ebay call them "chased hard rubber", but I'm sure know better than most of them eachan. The materials can apparently be made to look very similar.

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    Default Re: Onoto models and nib sizes

    If we're talking about the lower pen in your photo, that is celluloid. It's a late thirties/forties pen.

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    Default Re: Onoto models and nib sizes

    Thanks eachan, I am just a bit slow to take a hint. The conflicting info from ebay seller and others have confused me a bit.

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    Default Re: Onoto models and nib sizes

    De La Rue was, among other things, a plastics company. The "ink-visible" celluloid they used for the Magna was apparently a formulation of their own devising. Other than that they sailed on with hard rubber into the thirties and celluloid to the fifties. IIRC the K models and some lever fillers produced in Australia after Onoto's official demise were "modern" plastics.

    If you want to know whether a pen is hard rubber or not, try rubbing it vigorously with a finger to warm it then sniff. The upper pen should smell, the lower probably not. I think (not certain) that all 3050 pens were HR while the 4601 and similar were celluloid. That is not a simple demarcation because there were many other numbers at the time. Onoto was nothing if not prolific with model numbers.

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    Default Re: Onoto models and nib sizes

    Thanks bunyip for further info clearing things up (...well at least keeping me guessing). I initially thought it might be hard rubber, but I have too little to compare with, and I know they made various qualities of both rubber and plastic. Hard rubber is a durable material, I can understand why they kept on using it.

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    Default Re: Onoto models and nib sizes

    Hi Bunyip,

    I hope this message finds you well.
    I have 2 vintage Onoto plunger fillers, a model 3000 with a No 3/ST nib, and a model 6000 with a No 3 nib.
    Could you please let me know if the nibs are interchangeable?
    And what does the "ST" on the No 3/ST stand for?
    Thanks Bunyip
    I look forward to hearing from you

    Best regards,
    John

    Quote Originally Posted by bunyip View Post
    Thank you. Nice pens. The top one is an 'N' model (later the 3000) from 1905-1920. The the bottom harder to tell but on that one, using magnification, you should find a four-digit number on the blind cap. It can be hard to read, especially because sometimes they put the pin through the number.

    However, we know you have No 2 nibs and are after something larger, with more flexibility? First step up is a model with a No 3 or 3/ST nib. These are about the same length but slightly wider, with variation. Like the No 2, those are quite common in Onotos up to the 1940s.

    A step up is the No 5 although less common. It can be found in the post-war 6234 or 6235. The grand master of Onoto nibs is the No 7, which I know of only on the Magna, though it might be a bit large by your criteria. Great pens. Could be considered expensive. You have not mentioned any budget.

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