sailor inks

[inklord]

hello all!
a little disclaimer first: for a while i was just writing with my pens and inks rather than geeking out over them, and i also did not follow what was going on on "the market" (or on this still amazing forum, for that matter!). so i don't know if there is already a thread concerning this - maybe someone could point me in that direction if so.
recently i wanted to replenish my sailor "yama-dori" ink and found that it is obviously discontinued. while i've found a source by now, i noticed that sailor is apparently changing their entire line of inks from the 50ml bottles (18$/bottle) to 20(!)ml bottles at $15 which makes not only for a more than 100% price increase, but also a rather ridiculously small amout of ink per unit. in addition to this, i found aggravating that the names have obviously changed (once again), and it is anybodies guess to what degree the inks have changed. i find this a rather strange marketing strategy... any thoughts?

[Chrissy]

According to the Cult Pens web-site Sailor has dropped the "Jentle" part of the regular ink range with their 50ml bottles, and has substituted "Shikiori" for their now current 20ml bottle range. Yamadori is still listed as one of the current colour options in that range, so is Okuyama, Kinmokusei, Miruai and Souten etc. I wasn't aware that the ink colours have changed, but some new ones have been added to the list.

As far as the difference in bottles is concerned it's not just a new bottle, it's a vastly reduced bottle size. I don't know why they have reduced their bottle size to 20ml. Perhaps they intend to bring out a larger bottle size later?

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Story I heard was that Sailor is apparently a small company (I am happy to be corrected here), and changes in demand once the inky goodness was recognised globally have negatively impacted on availability in Japan. I get the impression that in general Japanese buyers don't hoard the stuff, but Western buyers were sort of buying in bulk (perhaps to mitigate shipping costs).

Perhaps it was considered that the smaller bottles/higher price per ml would even out the market in terms of where it was bought.

Obviously I cannot corroborate that story.

And, sitting here as I am with 14 50ml bottles of Sailor ink in my desk drawer (x3 Yama dori, x2 Rikyu cha, x2 Doyou, x2 Kin mokusei, x1 Chushu, x1 Shigure, X2 Tokiwamatsu, plus x1 Tanna japonensis) I do feel that maybe I have been part of the problem too. However, my accumulation is modest indeed compared with some I've read about.


Anyway, that's what I heard.

[inklord]

... well, at 75 cents per ml this has got to be some of the most ridiculously priced ink on the planet. it's water and dye, after all, not unobtainium, even though i have to admit that sailor makes some really unique inks. but so do other ink manufacturers. (btw Empty_of_Clouds, you seem to like the same sailor inks as i do... )

[inklord]

Yamadori is still listed as one of the current colour options in that range, so is Okuyama, Kinmokusei, Miruai and Souten etc. I wasn't aware that the ink colours have changed, but some new ones have been added.

thanks, Chrissy - i could at first not find "yama-dori" and some of the others in the new bottles at my supplier's website, but at the new, elevated price i would feel too much like a sucker to buy sailor ink. while not in the same league, i applaud LAMY and Diamine for their comparatively low prices even on special edition inks, though the new crystal inks from LAMY also seem to go towards the trend of posh bottling of less ink for more...

[catbert]

Some sellers still have (or had) the old bottles in stock. The Andersons mentioned it a little while ago, for example.

[inklord]

Some sellers still have (or had) the old bottles in stock. The Andersons mentioned it a little while ago, for example.

yup, that's how i found out; and the nibsmith (Dan) has some left, too.

[mulrich]

I can appreciate supply and demand issues but it seems like a 20ml bottle goes too far (unless the price drops to ~$10). Time and the market will tell but I expect to see another change in a year or so after sales drop off completely. I love Sailor ink but won't buy one of their new bottles–there are too many great alternatives to spend that much on ink.

You can buy sample sets of Iroshizuku inks that come in 15ml bottles (3 bottles, ~$32), which means the new Sailor bottle size is basically a glorified and overpriced sample. My biggest fear is that other ink makers will increase their prices to mimic Sailor.

The one positive that comes from this decision is discontinuing the squatty bottles.

[inklord]

... should have switched to squatty bottles with a dimple, like Pilot iroshizuku and LAMY bottles...

[catbert]

I shall miss the old bottles. Great for stacking, easier to open than Iroshizuku, satisfying uncap sound.

[Chrissy]

I was never specially keen on the old bottles, but at least they held 50ml.

[Woody]

Some of the Robert Oster concoctios come close to Yama Dori. I recall Crystal Marine and Great Southern Ocean come close. I actually like Great Southern Ocean better.

[brunico]

At usual prices in the UK, Sailor in 20ml bottles is the same price per ml as Iroshizuku in 50ml bottles. It's annoying that Sailor has done this, but I can forgive them if I like the new Shikioro Shimoyo that's just arrived in the post... and a couple of these!

[Sailor Kenshin]

*tries to count bottles*

I have maybe eight of those full-size, squat bottles. (And I think four of Iro...)

I was moving away from supersaturated inks, but now I guess I'll keep them on hand. I won't be buying more, though. Monteverde and Krishna have taken over.

[Chrissy]

Maybe I should have bought that extra bottle of Sailor Rikyu cha........

[calamus]

The one positive that comes from this decision is discontinuing the squatty bottles.

The big advantage of squat bottles like those is that they are much less likely to tip over and spill. So there's a trade-off involved.

[KKay]

The price change with much smaller bottle was a turn off to me. The smaller bottle would be fine, if the price was much less. I won't be buying anymore of their ink, under current circumstances. I have two Iroshihzuku inks. KWZ-Walk Over Vistula is similar to Yama dori, but it is a more wet ink. I do have several bottles of Sailor ink, but when these are gone they are gone for good. I did get a back up bottle of Yama dori about 3 years ago. I do love Kiwa guro, but I may switch to Platinum Carbon Black when this bottle runs out. Rikyu cha is similar to Noodler's Burma Road Brown, and a KWZ ink I have. I can't think of the name of the KWZ ink at the moment.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

It's unlikely that Sailor would have made this change if there wasn't either a compelling supply side reason, or a similarly compelling profit-based reason. Maybe a bit of both. I just don't see a company of this pedigree making egregious errors.

[Sailor Kenshin]

The price change with much smaller bottle was a turn off to me. The smaller bottle would be fine, if the price was much less. I won't be buying anymore of their ink, under current circumstances. I have two Iroshihzuku inks. KWZ-Walk Over Vistula is similar to Yama dori, but it is a more wet ink. I do have several bottles of Sailor ink, but when these are gone they are gone for good. I did get a back up bottle of Yama dori about 3 years ago. I do love Kiwa guro, but I may switch to Platinum Carbon Black when this bottle runs out. Rikyu cha is similar to Noodler's Burma Road Brown, and a KWZ ink I have. I can't think of the name of the KWZ ink at the moment.

Many ink producers seem to be going this way. Didn't MB do the same?

I've recently ordered some Krishna ink in small (20 ml?) bottles...six bucks. Krishna used to be all over fleabay, and now I can't find the bottles, though I always wanted to try the brand. I got mine from Van Ness...don't know who is still selling them. They may be disappearing soon, like Chesterfield.

[inklord]

Some of the Robert Oster concoctios come close to Yama Dori. I recall Crystal Marine and Great Southern Ocean come close. I actually like Great Southern Ocean better.

thanks a bunch for that tip!