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Thread: Similarities between Parker vs Sheaffer

  1. #41
    Senior Member Ramón Campos's Avatar
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    Default Re: Similarities between Parker vs Sheaffer

    In 1927 Sheaffer incorporated black & pearl color... and Parker, although with different dyes, did the same in 1928. They also both agreed on price os some models; e.g, $10.00 oversize and $8.50 junior.

    Last edited by Ramón Campos; May 15th, 2019 at 01:44 AM.

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    Senior Member FredRydr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Similarities between Parker vs Sheaffer

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramón Campos View Post
    In 1927...They also both agreed on price os some models; e.g, $10.00 oversize and $8.50 junior.
    Just to be a bit more precise, do you mean (a.) that Sheaffer and Parker prices for those pens happened to be the same, or (b.) that Sheaffer and Parker reached agreement between them to set those prices for those pens?

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    Senior Member Ramón Campos's Avatar
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    Default Re: Similarities between Parker vs Sheaffer

    Quote Originally Posted by FredRydr View Post
    Just to be a bit more precise, do you mean (a.) that Sheaffer and Parker prices for those pens happened to be the same, or (b.) that Sheaffer and Parker reached agreement between them to set those prices for those pens?
    Hi, of course Parker in his launch and determination of the sale price of their black & pearl models knew retail prices of Sheaffer´S because these prices were overtly announced* or just go to buy one and know its price, but I here opted decidedly for the option (a) only highlight similarity, proximity in time and price. I look here for similarities; the fact that the prices were exactly the same in two models (from memory I want to remember that it was not like that in pen Ladies) and that both increased the price over their pens of previous colors. I do not intend to draw any conclusion from this similarity.

    * By the way we'll see also in this thread how they alternated the same advertising pages in some magazines as Saturday Evening Post, e.g., for months but years they both published to one side on the back cover (pages 1 or 2)... but one week published one and next published the other alternating themselves but they did not coincide at least that is the general rule in SEP.
    Last edited by Ramón Campos; May 15th, 2019 at 12:11 PM.

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    Default Re: Similarities between Parker vs Sheaffer

    Sir,

    I have just looked at your image of Parker sales figures.

    Looks good to me. ( I know nothing about Sheaffer sales / units sold )

    Are you able to post any information of post 1949 Parker sales / numbers sold ( volume ), I would like a reference.


    A great many thanks


    ( I fully understand that your native tongue is Spanish, sometimes alot is lost in translation / misunderstood, the English language has alot of nuances - just an image would be great to look at )
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by proteus; May 15th, 2019 at 02:00 PM.

  5. #45
    Senior Member Ramón Campos's Avatar
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    Default Re: Similarities between Parker vs Sheaffer

    Quote Originally Posted by proteus View Post
    Sir, are you able to post any information of post 1949 Parker sales / numbers sold ( volume ), I would like a reference.A great many thanks
    Sir, I'm sorry I do not have the requested information.

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    Senior Member Ramón Campos's Avatar
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    Default Re: Similarities between Parker vs Sheaffer

    In 1931 Sheaffer´S presents their Balance Autograph with the possibility to engrave the owner's signature; a year later Parker presents their own protection against lost, adapted to their fountain pens.

    Last edited by Ramón Campos; May 16th, 2019 at 05:37 AM.

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    Default Re: Similarities between Parker vs Sheaffer

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramón Campos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by proteus View Post
    Sir, are you able to post any information of post 1949 Parker sales / numbers sold ( volume ), I would like a reference.A great many thanks
    Sir, I'm sorry I do not have the requested information.
    What was the source of the information presented?

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    Default Re: Similarities between Parker vs Sheaffer

    Sir,

    You have posted alot of information on this forum.

    Some I have seen before.


    Please can you tell me where it has all come from?

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    Senior Member Ramón Campos's Avatar
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    Default Re: Similarities between Parker vs Sheaffer

    In 1924 Sheaffer presented their desk sets with fixed socket. Quickly Parker replied presenting theirs with folding and rotate socket. By having complementary patents in this matter they decided not to extend the legal fight for patents and, together with Whal, few years later created a consortium, the Pen Desk Set Co., where they associated all patents at the same time that they charged royalties to other desk sets manufacturers.


    In this very descriptive label we can appreciate patent´s origin.

    Last edited by Ramón Campos; May 19th, 2019 at 04:27 AM.

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    Default Re: Similarities between Parker vs Sheaffer

    Will you be commenting on the origins of the Desk Set Company?

  11. #51
    Senior Member Ramón Campos's Avatar
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    Default Re: Similarities between Parker vs Sheaffer

    Quote Originally Posted by Farmboy View Post
    Will you be commenting on the origins of the Desk Set Company?
    Maybe another time.

  12. #52
    Senior Member Ramón Campos's Avatar
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    Default Re: Similarities between Parker vs Sheaffer

    Parker & Sheaffer´S also coincided on engraving nibs serial number(1) from the second half of the '20; both with double inscription and both with one of them hidden at a glance.


    (1) Addendum. Although each one will have his particular theory about this matter I would highlight the fact that, in relation to Parker, we have the testimony of the famous architect Frank Lloyd Wright who deduced or they let him to know in his visit to that factory that were numbered for know the owner; remembing that guarantee for life was before the first owner and that this one should be registered in some way, maybe for know in favor of whom the guarantee was granted? Moreover in the Parker Duofold´s book of Parker, Shepherd & Zazove they affirm that nibs numbering appears in 1928 and this date match with the fact that It is in 1928 (since March in the local press according to my data and since December in the national press) when Parker publicly disseminated the extension of the 25-year guarantee to the Lifetime guarantee hence that nibs numbering could be compatible and consistent with obligation to differentiate nibs guaranteed for 25 years from those guaranteed for life.

    In relation to Sheaffer we have the direct testimony of Craig Sheaffer in the same line who stated that they numbered the Lifetime nibs with the purpose of limiting the liability that arises under the guarantee of their fountain pen during the life of the buyer, since without such serial numbering they could not limit to liability under these Lifetime guarantee due to the fact that Sheaffer´S sometimes only guaranteed the point of the nibs while on occasions they guaranteed the entire fountain pen and therefore the serial number system would be the only one practicable method by which they could keep a record of guarantee scope under which such Lifetime pens had been sold. This possible relationship with the guarantee is consistent with the fact that non-Lifetime nibs, non guaranteed, were not numbered neither Parker nor Sheaffer'S. In any case there would be no reasoned explanation for the second registration of the serial number; the one they engraving in a non-visible place.

    Last edited by Ramón Campos; May 21st, 2019 at 01:59 AM.

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    Default Re: Similarities between Parker vs Sheaffer

    A well researched article was written regarding the serial numbers on Sheaffer nibs. There is no need for speculation.

    A thread here also discusses this.

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    Default Re: Similarities between Parker vs Sheaffer

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramón Campos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Farmboy View Post
    Will you be commenting on the origins of the Desk Set Company?
    Maybe another time.
    You should. It is quite relevant to your discussion.

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    Senior Member Ramón Campos's Avatar
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    Default Re: Similarities between Parker vs Sheaffer

    @Farmboy. Sorry I don´t think so now; I prefer not to deviate myself and follow the thread of similarities.

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    Senior Member Ramón Campos's Avatar
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    Default Re: Similarities between Parker vs Sheaffer

    Parker and Sheaffer'S used a wide media scope to highlight the smoothness of their nibs to the point of giving own name to this attribute; Pressureless Touch vs. Feather Touch, respectively.

    Last edited by Ramón Campos; May 22nd, 2019 at 04:18 AM.

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    Default Re: Similarities between Parker vs Sheaffer

    Your dedication is acknowledged but can you share thoughts on where this thread is leading to? Competitors in any given field logically produce items with similar features and similar design (eg fountain pens of the 1920s, cars of the 1950s, smartphones of the 2020s). But what is the conclusion so far, other than the fact that Sheaffer and Parker share similarities in pen design and commercial strategies (and the physical looks of the founders)?

    Apart from that, I would definitely be interested in reading relevant info on the Pen Desk Set Company in which Sheaffer and Parker actually combined forces (together with Wahl if I am correct). Info on that topic is only scarcely availabe (to my knowledge).

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    Default Re: Similarities between Parker vs Sheaffer

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramón Campos View Post
    @Farmboy. Sorry I don´t think so now; I prefer not to deviate myself and follow the thread of similarities.
    To bad. At least one reader here is quite interested and since both Parker and a Sheaffer desk bases were made by a single entity, the similarity follows this thread.

    This reader is left with the concern you are unaware of this connection.

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    Default Re: Similarities between Parker vs Sheaffer

    Ramon Campos,

    Sir

    ' I prefer not to deviate myself and follow the thread of similarities '


    That is fine by me.

    I await your next with great interest.

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    Default Re: Similarities between Parker vs Sheaffer

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramón Campos View Post
    In relation to Sheaffer we have the direct testimony of Craig Sheaffer in the same line who stated that they numbered the Lifetime nibs with the purpose of limiting the liability that arises under the guarantee of their fountain pen during the life of the buyer, since without such serial numbering they could not limit to liability under these Lifetime guarantee due to the fact that Sheaffer´S sometimes only guaranteed the point of the nibs while on occasions they guaranteed the entire fountain pen and therefore the serial number system would be the only one practicable method by which they could keep a record of guarantee scope under which such Lifetime pens had been sold. This possible relationship with the guarantee is consistent with the fact that non-Lifetime nibs, non guaranteed, were not numbered neither Parker nor Sheaffer'S. In any case there would be no reasoned explanation for the second registration of the serial number; the one they engraving in a non-visible place.
    This is all easily-disprovable nonsense.

    --Daniel
    “Every discussion which is made from an egoistic standpoint is corrupted from the start and cannot yield an absolutely sure conclusion. The ego puts its own interest first and twists every argument, word, even fact to suit that interest.”
    ― Paul Brunton, The Notebooks of Paul Brunton

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