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Thread: Similarities between Parker vs Sheaffer

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    Member Ramón Campos's Avatar
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    Default Similarities between Parker vs Sheaffer

    In 1933 Parker not only introduced a new loading system with the Vacuum Filler, but also incorporated a new design by drilling transversely "tarts" of colored celluloid layers producing ringed models. Towards February of 1934 one of these layers of the barrels happened to be transparent with what the necessary transparency was obtained to see the level of ink whose property they denominated "visibily ink supply" that we all recognize in the vacumatics. Well, this complexity was not enough for Sheaffer to get discouraged and in 1936, faced with the success of his competitor, they adopted similar elaboration system, leaving behind the colors that had been produced in the Balances´ high range, but that was different, since they seem to make use of layers of "cake" of celluloid taken longitudinally, and the transparency property they called too "skrip (ink) visibility". Here I leave some images that illustrate the similarity:

    [CENTER][CENTER]

    [CENTER][CENTER]
    Last edited by Ramón Campos; April 30th, 2019 at 12:12 AM.

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    Default Re: Similarities between Parker vs Sheaffer

    Comments about the range of colors from the second half of the '30?

    [/CENTER][/CENTER]

    [/CENTER][/CENTER]
    Last edited by Ramón Campos; May 3rd, 2019 at 08:06 AM.

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    Default Re: Similarities between Parker vs Sheaffer

    During my research about Parker I was always struck by how, in their struggle for the excellence, they had an eye on the market and another in the competitor in such a way that they were inspired, if they were not copied, to improve, one over the other. I will use this theme to present similarities and sometimes I will try to get wet about who hit first.

    We will start with the coincidence that both had cartoon fountain pens, Funny Man -Parker- and Peter Pen -Sheaffer-. In this particular case, Parker took the initiative.

    Last edited by Ramón Campos; April 30th, 2019 at 12:20 AM.

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    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
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    Default Re: Similarities between Parker vs Sheaffer

    A couple of items:

    1. In the striated colors, Sheaffer actually had two reds: Carmine and Roseglow. And in the Vacumatics, there are also the striations of the Shadow Wave pens.

    2. Competition always breeds like models, and the public is aware of the similarities. Even so, during this period both companies also had models that were unique to their own line. For instance, Parker never had models that directly competed with either the black/white or "ebonized" pearl materials of Sheaffer. They had other choices that Sheaffer didn't match, either. So, while there were similar colors/materials, there were unique items as well.

    3. In your thesis for the Sheaffer version of the celluloid, there is a flaw in the concept: if they simply bored out from sheets as you show, there would be sides of the pen that showed long flat panels, much like the OMAS Arco celluloids do - stripes on two sides, and the flat, wider panels/stripes on the other two. There is more to it than boring in a different direction.
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

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    Default Re: Similarities between Parker vs Sheaffer

    For the interested, there are patents from both companies named as well as many other companies showing the methods of fabrication.

    Quite often...there was no drill involved.

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    Default Re: Similarities between Parker vs Sheaffer

    Both developed and marketed their own ink. In this case Parker took the initiative from before Sheaffer Pen Co. was born.


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    Default Re: Similarities between Parker vs Sheaffer

    In 1937 Sheaffer'S presents their first fountain pen with metal cap and celluloid barrel, the (X) 47T soon named Sheaffer'S Crest; in 1940 Parker replies with the presentation of the Parker Imperial Ensign, coinciding even in the strange location of the thread in the barrel section itself. In this case was Sheaffer who hit first



    Last edited by Ramón Campos; April 30th, 2019 at 01:30 AM.

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    Default Re: Similarities between Parker vs Sheaffer

    Quote Originally Posted by Farmboy View Post
    For the interested, there are patents from both companies named showing the methods of fabrication.
    You write that Sheaffer´S had patent showing their method of fabrication of striated fountain pens alternating transparent and non-transparent stretchmarks of celluloid, Would you be so kind as to illustrate this thread with this Sheaffer´S patent showing this Sheaffer´S method of fabrication?, Would you be so kind as to upload it here?
    Last edited by Ramón Campos; April 30th, 2019 at 06:56 AM.

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    Default Re: Similarities between Parker vs Sheaffer

    Parker and Sheaffer also agreed on this; traditionally the barrels and celluloid caps were manufactured by obtaining a cylinder of this material to hollow it later drilling its interior. Both Parker and Sheaffer agreed to try a different process, with less celluloid consumption and faster drying, consisting of rolling the celluloid to wrap it around a cylinder and melt its union, giving rise to this typical stitching that we see in some of these manufactured

    For the most curious they can download ckicking Parker patents where from page 37 they will see the patent of both processes; curiously patented assignor to Parker Pen Co. by Lucius A. Crowell, Kenneth Parker´s brother-in-law and his advertising agent in Chicago and the person of Benson, Gamble & Crowell, whom helped to Kenneth Parker in the Parker Duofold´s launch in 1922 and successful advertising campaigns following :

    Last edited by Ramón Campos; May 4th, 2019 at 08:27 AM.

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    Default Re: Similarities between Parker vs Sheaffer

    If there is something that they coincided, or replicated breakneck speed, it was the protection band(1) -the last loving touch- to prevent breakage in the mouth of the cap.Both incorporated it with almost simultaneity in the beginning of 1923.


    (1) To protect and dispose of Duofold stocks that the dealers had without band, Parker launched the band version with an additional cost of $ 1.00 that was eliminated as soon as these stock, that at the same price could have been left unsold, disappeared. This care of Parker protecting the previous stocks of his dealers we will see later also in the introduction of other improvements like the celluloid after hard rubber, the guaranteed forever after 25 years or discounts for stock removal of Duofold previously to Vacumatic´s launch.
    Last edited by Ramón Campos; May 12th, 2019 at 03:17 PM.

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    Default Re: Similarities between Parker vs Sheaffer

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Szanto View Post
    A couple of items:

    1. In the striated colors, Sheaffer actually had two reds: Carmine and Roseglow. And in the Vacumatics, there are also the striations of the Shadow Wave pens.

    2. Competition always breeds like models, and the public is aware of the similarities. Even so, during this period both companies also had models that were unique to their own line. For instance, Parker never had models that directly competed with either the black/white or "ebonized" pearl materials of Sheaffer. They had other choices that Sheaffer didn't match, either. So, while there were similar colors/materials, there were unique items as well.

    3. In your thesis for the Sheaffer version of the celluloid, there is a flaw in the concept: if they simply bored out from sheets as you show, there would be sides of the pen that showed long flat panels, much like the OMAS Arco celluloids do - stripes on two sides, and the flat, wider panels/stripes on the other two. There is more to it than boring in a different direction.
    He seems to just carry on bumping his own posts whether others are interested or even care.
    Regards, Chrissy | My Blog: inkyfountainpens

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    Default Re: Similarities between Parker vs Sheaffer

    Hi Chrissy, this is a thread opened by me to spread, as clearly I stated in the title, similarities -please, allow me the underline-, between Parker and Sheaffer so about these similarities will be my participation here. For consistency and homogeneity I do not want to participate in this thread about anything else such can be differences, that there will be and many, between Parker and Sheaffer neither I want to polemicize so it seems good to me that others have different points of view or different matters of interest without I feeling obligated to replicate. I see similarities and expose them mostly with graphic documentation so other opinions are respectable but I reserve myself the right not to discuss them if it, in my opinion, seem appropriate.

    If someone wants to talk about this matter, about Parker & Sheaffer differences, they could open a new thread about and, depending on its development, I will see if I am interested in participating on it. In any case about differences I will not comment here, in this thread, anything more than I have added in the addendum at foot post and only in attention to your particular interest.


    Addendum. I do not understand what point here about roseglow & carmine; both tones correspond to the same group of "reds" and in fact the last one replaced the first; for Sheaffer´S more than two colors is the "same color" improved -the carmine was much more vivid and luminous than the roseglow and replaced it in their catalogs-, in any case we speak of similarities, not about equality; e.g. that Sheaffer has Jades first and Parker has Jades as soon as they could, not that both jades are the same color, nor exactly the same celluloid, only similarities. On the other hand Parker had previous patent for ringed, helicoidal and striated cellulloid as you can see so it is not newsworthy to see Parker manufacturing striated.

    Last edited by Ramón Campos; May 1st, 2019 at 11:04 AM.

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    Default Re: Similarities between Parker vs Sheaffer

    In the second half of the 20s the upper line of their catalogs, as you can see, was not already similar but, practically, identical; oversize, full length, junior, lady with ring to hang and some variations of them with ornaments in solid gold:


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    Default Re: Similarities between Parker vs Sheaffer

    The similarity during the best years, up to about the 1970s, was that the two companies made some great nibs and some really clever pens.

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    Default Re: Similarities between Parker vs Sheaffer

    @pajaro, yes, but that's broadly speaking so that's why here we are detailingin so I have scheduled for the next few days point out the many similarities that occurred in their nibs in different epochs. On the other hand I take the opportunity to remind that you posted yesterday that Sheaffer´S, as Parker, had patent showing their method of fabrication of striated fountain pens alternating transparent and non-transparent stretchmarks of celluloid. How it would be a similarity, would you be so kind as to illustrate this thread with this Sheaffer´S patent showing this Sheaffer´S method of fabrication?, Would you be so kind as to upload it here?
    Last edited by Ramón Campos; May 2nd, 2019 at 07:31 AM.

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    Default Re: Similarities between Parker vs Sheaffer

    Sir,

    I would be very interested to hear what you think of the similarities of post 1950’s Sheaffer & Parker pens

    Particularly the nib & shell developments from Fort Madison & Arrow Park during the 1950's & 1960's.

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    Default Re: Similarities between Parker vs Sheaffer

    Hi @proteus, thanks for your note. I have this thread programmed more or less chronologically and I´ll try to get to those years but I´ll make you an advance; the similarities that you describe are very reasonable because both, Parker and Sheaffer´S, shared Wings´ feed-shell patent and closed nibs system from "51"/Triumph times. Let's see:

    "On February 26, 1943, Parker Pen Co. and Wing entered into a written agreement with W. A. Sheaffer Pen Company. The agreement recited, among other things, that Parker and Wing were joint plaintiffs in a suit pending against Sheaffer for infringement of several patents, including the two Wing patents as to which letters had already issued, and that "the parties are desirous of settling said suit." It then went on to provide that "Wing and Parker agree", simultaneously with execution of this agreement, to modify their agreement of January 24, 1938, "to an extent sufficient to enable Parker to grant Sheaffer a limited license under said Wing patents and permit Wing to receive royalties from Sheaffer, all as hereinafter set forth." It then stated, among other things, that "Parker hereby grants unto Sheaffer," subject to conditions specified, "the nonexclusive right and license to make or cause to be made, to use, and sell or cause to be sold, throughout the world, Fountain Pens under certain (specified) claims of said Wing patents"; that Sheaffer "acknowledges (the) validity of said specified claims"; that Sheaffer would pay Parker $25,000.00 as "a part of the consideration of the license rights (including those to the Wing patents) acquired by Sheaffer from Parker hereunder"; and that as "part of the consideration of the license hereby granted to Sheaffer under said Wing patents with the consent and cooperation of Wing, Sheaffer shall pay to Wing" the same percentage "royalty on each Fountain Pen sold by or for Sheaffer" as was payable by Parker to Wing, with an annual minimum total payment of $6,000.00. Wing and Parker together waived all their rights "for any past infringement" of the Wing patents, and agreed to cut Sheaffer's "royalty" to any lower figure granted others. Sheaffer was given an unqualified right similar to Parker's "to cancel its license" by giving written notice, and while Wing was also given a "right to cancel" upon like notice, again it was only for "breach or default" not "made good" within the notice period; any such notice by either to the other had to run also to Parker..."
    Last edited by Ramón Campos; May 1st, 2019 at 03:20 PM.

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    Default Re: Similarities between Parker vs Sheaffer

    Sir,

    Many thanks for your reply.

    I read it with great interest.

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    Default Re: Similarities between Parker vs Sheaffer

    Hi @proteus, in case it is of your interest here you have my full photo report, prototype, patents and law suit about these Wing shared patents, click here:

    Last edited by Ramón Campos; May 2nd, 2019 at 02:49 AM.

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    Default Re: Similarities between Parker vs Sheaffer

    An almost unknown and undisclosed coincidence so far is that both marketed feminine leather cases for pencil and fountain pen set; with design very similar and, for higher coincidence, both also name these cases exactly equal; "Penvelope". I have reference to them since 1927 in Parker and since 1928 in Sheaffer.

    PARKER PENVELOPE



    SHEAFFER PENVELOPE

    Last edited by Ramón Campos; May 3rd, 2019 at 08:04 AM.

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