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Thread: Sheaffer's before the fountain pens

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    Default Re: Sheaffer's before the fountain pens

    People evade when they are fearful of the consequences of providing a direct, truthful reply.

    --Daniel
    “Every discussion which is made from an egoistic standpoint is corrupted from the start and cannot yield an absolutely sure conclusion. The ego puts its own interest first and twists every argument, word, even fact to suit that interest.”
    ― Paul Brunton, The Notebooks of Paul Brunton

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    Senior Member Ramón Campos's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sheaffer's before the fountain pens

    Gentleman, you ask me about Joe Kraker´s existence and my opinion on this matter does not seem to matter to anyone but you and, in addition, it would hurt me that my answer did not satisfy you but given your insistent interest I will give you my opinion about the possible existence of Joe and this is that it depends; since I´m considering "to exist" as have a objective reality or being, his existence depends, so;

    JOE DOES NOT EXIST. He has no objective reality as a Geo´s lender in the establishment of W.A. Sheaffer Pen Co. contrary to the published in Pennant (this wrong antecedent that could have confused some collector when interpreting other docs) Someone to get a wrong doc confused him because the loaner was Coulson to his brother Ben F. Coulson who was the borrowers(not Joe´s to his brother Geo) as confirmed to us Walter Sheaffer himself.

    JOE DOES NOT EXIST as shareholder of the W. A. Sheaffer Pen Co.

    JOE COULD NOT EXIST
    . In certain circumstances in which when being quoted verbally and given the similarity vocalization with Geo, someone to hear "Joe" confused this sound with "Geo".

    JOE COULD NOT EXIST
    In a certain situation, when someone transcribing some notes written in shorthand, taking into account the similarity between Joe and Geo written in shorthand, she could have been confused "Joe" with "Geo" when transcribing shorthand notes to typing.


    JOE EXIST. Under any other circumstances Joe exists... but always remembering that you you are wrong, very wrong -I will not say here that you lie- when you refer to "The Papers" as a transcript; it is not, as Dennis Bowden claimed and I claim.




    After this parenthesis I will continue with the thread...
    Last edited by Ramón Campos; Today at 09:53 AM.

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    Senior Member Ramón Campos's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sheaffer's before the fountain pens

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramón Campos View Post
    ... he found time for social relationships and entertainment as here where we see him organizing the First Grand Ball given by the Bloomfield Cuadrilla Band in 1891...
    ...or organize the annual meeting in Bloomfield of the Western Light Brahma Club.
    Last edited by Ramón Campos; June 16th, 2019 at 03:06 AM.

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    Default Re: Sheaffer's before the fountain pens

    I'm talking about the Joseph Kraker who is listed in the Articles of Incorporation of the Kraker Pen Company of Missouri as one of the three original shareholders alongside Harvey Craig and Leslie Blumenthal, and who was the president of that company.

    That Joe Kraker.

    Does he exist, Ramon?

    --Daniel
    “Every discussion which is made from an egoistic standpoint is corrupted from the start and cannot yield an absolutely sure conclusion. The ego puts its own interest first and twists every argument, word, even fact to suit that interest.”
    ― Paul Brunton, The Notebooks of Paul Brunton

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    Default Re: Sheaffer's before the fountain pens

    You know, the Joseph Kraker who invented a fountain pen and assigned the patent to the Kraker Pen Company, of which he was president.

    That Joseph Kraker.

    Does he exist?

    --Daniel
    “Every discussion which is made from an egoistic standpoint is corrupted from the start and cannot yield an absolutely sure conclusion. The ego puts its own interest first and twists every argument, word, even fact to suit that interest.”
    ― Paul Brunton, The Notebooks of Paul Brunton

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    Default Re: Sheaffer's before the fountain pens

    Ramon, you can start by admitting that you were wrong when you said that "Joe Kraker does not exist."

    Do you admit that you have now learned that Joe Kraker, George Kraker's brother, existed?

    This is really very simple.

    Did George Kraker have a brother named Joe Kraker?

    Remember -- people evade when they are fearful of the consequences of providing a direct and truthful answer.

    Are you able to provide a direct and truthful answer?

    --Daniel
    “Every discussion which is made from an egoistic standpoint is corrupted from the start and cannot yield an absolutely sure conclusion. The ego puts its own interest first and twists every argument, word, even fact to suit that interest.”
    ― Paul Brunton, The Notebooks of Paul Brunton

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    Default Re: Sheaffer's before the fountain pens

    I’m curious why one would doubt the existence of Joe?

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    Senior Member FredRydr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sheaffer's before the fountain pens

    Oh, brother! (And I don't mean George.)

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    Default Re: Sheaffer's before the fountain pens

    Quote Originally Posted by FredRydr View Post
    Oh, brother! (And I don't mean George.)
    Interest’n read’n as you would say.

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    Default Re: Sheaffer's before the fountain pens

    Quote Originally Posted by kirchh View Post
    Did George Kraker have a brother named Joe Kraker?
    Ooo! Ooo! I know this one. Pick me teacher, pick me!

  12. #31
    Senior Member Ramón Campos's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sheaffer's before the fountain pens

    Quote Originally Posted by kirchh View Post
    You know, the Joseph Kraker who invented a fountain pen and assigned the patent to the Kraker Pen Company, of which he was president.

    --Daniel
    Sir, you seem to be wrong; according to George Kraker and the specialized press of the time the president was George (Geo) Kraker and not Joseph (Joe) as you claim. Your Joseph Kraker is not nobody in this history; if anything just a straw man to hide his brother's betrayal to Walter Sheaffer.

    Last edited by Ramón Campos; May 14th, 2019 at 02:07 AM.

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    Senior Member Ramón Campos's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sheaffer's before the fountain pens

    Quote Originally Posted by kirchh View Post
    You know, the Joseph Kraker who invented a fountain pen and assigned the patent to the Kraker Pen Company.

    --Daniel
    Sir, you seem to be wrong in this matter too; according to the US Patent Office, who invented and assigned the patent of lever filling was George (Geo) Kraker and not from Joseph (Joe) as you claim. "Your" Joseph Kraker is nobody, no one; completely unimportant or insignificant in this history too.


    Even other accessories patents were also of George Kraker.

    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Ramón Campos; May 14th, 2019 at 02:10 AM.

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    Default Re: Sheaffer's before the fountain pens

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramón Campos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kirchh View Post
    You know, the Joseph Kraker who invented a fountain pen and assigned the patent to the Kraker Pen Company, of which he was president.

    --Daniel
    Sir, you seem to be wrong; according to George Kraker and the specialized press of the time the president was George (Geo) Kraker and not Joseph (Joe) as you claim. Your Joseph Kraker is not nobody in this history; if anything just a straw man to hide his brother's betrayal to Walter Sheaffer.

    Hi Ramon.

    Are you claiming that Joseph Kraker was not listed on the Articles of Incorporation of the Kraker Pen Company as a member of the Board of Directors and one of the three original shareholders?

    This is a simple, yes-or-no question.

    I'm very interested to see your reply, if you have the courage to answer me directly and not evade this simple question.

    --Daniel
    Last edited by kirchh; May 14th, 2019 at 08:53 AM.
    “Every discussion which is made from an egoistic standpoint is corrupted from the start and cannot yield an absolutely sure conclusion. The ego puts its own interest first and twists every argument, word, even fact to suit that interest.”
    ― Paul Brunton, The Notebooks of Paul Brunton

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    Default Re: Sheaffer's before the fountain pens

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramón Campos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kirchh View Post
    You know, the Joseph Kraker who invented a fountain pen and assigned the patent to the Kraker Pen Company.

    --Daniel
    Sir, you seem to be wrong in this matter too; according to the US Patent Office, who invented and assigned the patent of lever filling was George (Geo) Kraker and not from Joseph (Joe) as you claim. "Your" Joseph Kraker is nobody, no one; completely unimportant or insignificant in this history too.
    Hi Ramon.

    Are you claiming that Joseph Kraker, George Kraker's brother and founder of the Kraker Pen Company, did not invent a fountain pen and assign the patent to the Kraker Pen Company?

    This is a simple question, Ramon. Will you have the courage to answer it directly, rather than evading, as you have been doing?

    Remember, people evade when they are afraid. Afraid of the consequences of providing a direct, honest answer.

    --Daniel
    Last edited by kirchh; May 14th, 2019 at 08:52 AM.
    “Every discussion which is made from an egoistic standpoint is corrupted from the start and cannot yield an absolutely sure conclusion. The ego puts its own interest first and twists every argument, word, even fact to suit that interest.”
    ― Paul Brunton, The Notebooks of Paul Brunton

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    Default Re: Sheaffer's before the fountain pens

    Ramon -

    You have evaded my simple question.

    You repeatedly claimed that "Joe Kraker did not exist."

    Did Joe Kraker exist?

    This is a very, very simple question, Ramon.

    Was there a person named Joseph Kraker, who was George Kraker's brother?

    Do you have the courage to answer this simple, yes-or-no question? Or will you continue to evade?

    You know why people evade, don't you?

    --Daniel
    “Every discussion which is made from an egoistic standpoint is corrupted from the start and cannot yield an absolutely sure conclusion. The ego puts its own interest first and twists every argument, word, even fact to suit that interest.”
    ― Paul Brunton, The Notebooks of Paul Brunton

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    Default Re: Sheaffer's before the fountain pens

    Hi Ramon -

    You have something else to clear up.

    You claimed that the transcripts held by the National Archives for the appeal in the Sheaffer v. Barrett lawsuit are fake because Kraker is not named as a defendant.

    Here's the question: Did Sheaffer name Kraker as a defendant when Sheaffer filed suit, or did Kraker enter the case as interveners?

    This is a simple question. Have the courage to answer it directly and not evade it; you know why people evade.

    Was Kraker a defendant or an intervener?

    --Daniel
    “Every discussion which is made from an egoistic standpoint is corrupted from the start and cannot yield an absolutely sure conclusion. The ego puts its own interest first and twists every argument, word, even fact to suit that interest.”
    ― Paul Brunton, The Notebooks of Paul Brunton

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    Default Re: Sheaffer's before the fountain pens

    Quote Originally Posted by azkid View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kirchh View Post
    Did George Kraker have a brother named Joe Kraker?
    Ooo! Ooo! I know this one. Pick me teacher, pick me!
    Sorry! That would not achieve the purpose of this particular line of inquiry. But I appreciate your enthusiasm!

    --Daniel
    “Every discussion which is made from an egoistic standpoint is corrupted from the start and cannot yield an absolutely sure conclusion. The ego puts its own interest first and twists every argument, word, even fact to suit that interest.”
    ― Paul Brunton, The Notebooks of Paul Brunton

  19. #38
    Senior Member Ramón Campos's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sheaffer's before the fountain pens

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramón Campos View Post
    Walter was very industrious so he could combine the sale of jewelery, silverware, sewing machines or move heavy pianos on muddy or icy roads as these were the late nineteenth century or, as we will see in subsequent posts, with the raising and sale of poultry ... but also he found time for social relationships and entertainment as here where we see him organizing the First Grand Ball given by the Bloomfield Cuadrilla Band in 1891...
    ...and The Sheaffers also found time to organize cultural parties for their children, like this one crowned with ice cream and cake.


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