vintage EF - F nib pens

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I have bought few vintage pens lately and I'm still waiting for them in the mail. I spent a bit of money, and should probably take a pause. I still keep searching for the type of flexible fine point nib among various brands. I know Mabie Todd, Waterman, some Sheaffer models have them. Many of the very old eyedrop fillers have this type of nib (the black, slender cylinder type). I am terribly tempted by the 1930s INKPAK popcod has up for sale here on FPG, even if it's a bit cost prohibitive at the moment it looks like a dream.

Has anyone experiece with brands/models with this kind of nib? I have noticed Swans and Blackbirds, not all are flex or finepoint. I think Waterman No2 is an alternative. I guess what I'm looking for is a 1930s to 50s pen, I don't mind 1910 or earlier, but I guess they become few and far between at some point. I think I'm aiming for a complete pen, since it's difficult to match nib, feed and pen correctly by shopping on the web. What should I be looking for?

[Bold2013]

Peyton Street Pens would be a great place to start looking they have a ton of vintage setups including NOS and nibs fitted to modern bodies.

[penwash]

Sure.


This one is but one of hundreds of examples that you'd find on my instagram account @redeempens .
I also have an online pen store http://redeempens.com

[Ray-VIgo]

It sounds like you're kind of shotgunning it. You'll spend more money, but you'll certainly learn a lot. The most general rule is that the farther back you go, the more likely you are to encounter a flex nib. For fountain pens, 1890 - 1940 was the heyday of the flexible nib in the U.S. Gradually, preferences moved toward smoother, firmer nibs. Look carefully at any close ups of the nib when you buy. A longer profile and thin metal at the nib shoulders often will show on a flex nib. There are always exceptions, but if the nib's tines tend to be short and the metal thick at the shoulders, it's usually more rigid. Asking for a writing sample usually will get a reasonably good response from a knowledgeable seller, but eBay is hit or miss as to sellers.

Certain brands offered more flex nib choices than others. You mention Waterman and Mabie Todd, which are good places to start. Also consider looking at lesser known brands from the 1900s - 30s. Many of the older "Warranted 14k" nibs from that era are very flexible. Be sure the Warranted nib is indeed 14k gold from that era and not cheaper, plated steel. Sheaffer Lifetime nibs and Triumph nibs tend to be firmer as a general rule (exceptions exist, but speaking generally). Some of the Eversharp Skylines going into the 1940s have flex nibs, but it's hit-or-miss with them. The flex nib lived on a bit longer in Europe, especially in Germany. Flexible Pelikan nibs exist going well into the post-war period of the 1950s-60s.

Also, you can't go too terribly wrong if you've bought quality pens from first-tier makers, even if they turn out to be non-flex. You can always clean them up and sell them to another buyer. There's always a market for first-tier pens. Also consider dip pens if you're really looking for a lot of flex. The most flexible nibs I've ever used tended to be the old Mabie Todd 14k dip pens from the 1800s.

I'm sort of on the opposite side of the equation that you are on - I look specifically for smooth, very firm nibs in the fine or medium width.

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It sounds like you're kind of shotgunning it. You'll spend more money, but you'll certainly learn a lot...

I aim for a specific quality (at least within a narrowed down range) and I don't know enough to point out a specific nib or model. I understand you like a smooth ridgid nib, neat narrow line. I used to have a few Parker pens with the nib mostly bult into the barrel front, two with steel nib and one with gold; they were all nice and could be used for the news paper crosswords with out ink seeping into the paper. My main pen at the moment is a firm fine steel nib, I guess it's a must to write small neat letters, but I am practicing Spencerian and all the elaborations that come with it, I need the flex. I noticed a single gold 14K dip nib two weeks ago and I regret not bying it, there's non available at the moment. However, I shall have to focus on a fountain pen, I need it to be a bit more portable than ink bottles and dip nibs.

Thanks to all of you for the reply, I shall spend some time on the website links and note down models.

[Sid the Cat]

Vintage Conklins can be amazing; they can also be nails. Ignore the Enduras for the most part, and look for the older models. They don't have to be Crescent-Fillers, but it's a good place to start.

[FredRydr]

Black hard rubber Waterman 52 fountain pens were the standard for the pens you describe, and were had at very reasonable prices. Less then a decade ago, I would buy handfuls of them at $75 each from The Pen Haven after Bert cleaned, resacced and adjusted their nibs, but no fancy restoration work. They were various colors of oxidised ebonite, and clips would be brassed or loose (or gone). The patina didn't matter; those discolored pens served their purpose by holding those wonderful EF flex nibs. They wrote beautifully and made great gifts to newbies curious about my fountain pen handwriting. Alas, these days I don't see trays of oxidized hard rubber Waterman 52 user pens. Where are they?

[silverlifter]

I would buy handfuls of them...

Alas, these days I don't see trays of oxidized hard rubber Waterman 52 user pens. Where are they?

Rhetorical question, Fred?

[FredRydr]

...Rhetorical question, Fred?

Yeah, I suppose so. Rhetoric is like that.

[Deb]

If you want to get vintage flex you're best going to reputable dealers who have already assessed and tested the nibs of the pens they buy. Shopping by brand in eBay or other auction sites doesn't usually work well because there are more Watermans, Wahl-Eversharps, Swans or whatever that don't meet your criteria than do. The most interesting nibs are usually the earliest - the first two decades of the twentieth century produced wonders that have never been repeated, but I sold a very flexible fine Swan a couple of weeks ago that was made in 1948. There has always been a requirement for flexible nibs but it became a diminishing proportion of all pens made.

The point that Fred makes about Waterman 52 pens is a good one and it applies to all the other brands too. A lot of good pens have been sucked up into collections over the years and there they sit. The general market for vintage pens is depleted compared with a decade ago and costs reflect that.

[Ray-VIgo]

Black hard rubber Waterman 52 fountain pens were the standard for the pens you describe, and were had at very reasonable prices. Less then a decade ago, I would buy handfuls of them at $75 each from The Pen Haven after Bert cleaned, resacced and adjusted their nibs, but no fancy restoration work. They were various colors of oxidised ebonite, and clips would be brassed or loose (or gone). The patina didn't matter; those discolored pens served their purpose by holding those wonderful EF flex nibs. They wrote beautifully and made great gifts to newbies curious about my fountain pen handwriting. Alas, these days I don't see trays of oxidized hard rubber Waterman 52 user pens. Where are they?

I miss the visits with Bert at his shop on Saturday afternoons. It was a nice place with lots of interesting pens. The hard rubber 52 and its ancestor the 12PSF are the classic soft-nib lever fillers of their era. Can't go wrong with a good 52.

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I'm sorry to say ebay has been my main source for this. There are a few reputable sellers, I don't have full overview of the situaiton, but at the moment nothing spot on. I keep searching Redeem Pens pages... I may go for an old dropper filler, even if advice and recommendations are a bit conflicting.

The flexiest I have is a Pelikan fitted with an EF Gimbord nib, I like it and I'm keeping it, but it doesnt have the flex some vintage haves.

[wingwiper]

Black hard rubber Waterman 52 fountain pens were the standard for the pens you describe, and were had at very reasonable prices. Less then a decade ago, I would buy handfuls of them at $75 each from The Pen Haven after Bert cleaned, resacced and adjusted their nibs, but no fancy restoration work. They were various colors of oxidised ebonite, and clips would be brassed or loose (or gone). The patina didn't matter; those discolored pens served their purpose by holding those wonderful EF flex nibs. They wrote beautifully and made great gifts to newbies curious about my fountain pen handwriting. Alas, these days I don't see trays of oxidized hard rubber Waterman 52 user pens. Where are they?

I totally agree with Fred......purchased at least a handful of 52's,etc. back in the day for $50.00-$75.00 and at least half had full flex nibs, which are impossible to find today- albeit $200.00-$300.00. Some of the pens as Fred said were aesthetically not the best, but the nibs.......OH MY

I feel bad for young folks today because while some of the modern pens maybe more pleasing to look at, there is no replacement for warm hard rubber in your hand with vintage 14k full flex, noodle nibs. Pens sold today as flex are semi-flex at best

[AzJon]

Not flex, by and large, but I wonder what the Sheaffer market looked like 10 years ago. I feel like even over the last three years very nice Sheaffer's can be had for super cheap prices. I don't think I've seen a Sheaffer sell on Reddit that wasn't a PFM or something like that for more than $55 in a while.

[Ray-VIgo]

Not flex, by and large, but I wonder what the Sheaffer market looked like 10 years ago. I feel like even over the last three years very nice Sheaffer's can be had for super cheap prices. I don't think I've seen a Sheaffer sell on Reddit that wasn't a PFM or something like that for more than $55 in a while.

You make an interesting point. I think it depends on what model. The prices for vacuum-filler pens have gone up with the establishment of better restoration methods. Balance II values seem to have gone up as well. Some of the basic Touchdown and lever-filler pens seem to be flat or a touch lower than they once were. I think the PFMs are still in the blue chip category - they are worth quite a bit and hold their value pretty well.

The value of pens with the old-time, truly flexible nibs seem to have gone up on the whole. I'm thinking mainly here of Waterman and similar.

And I think the modern/new fountain pen market has expanded a good bit. I think this category has expanded the most, particularly the mid-range modern pens. This seems to be fueled largely by online shops and sales who carry a wide range of modern fountain pens. There's a lot of selection today, compared to 10 or 20 years ago, if you're looking for a new pen.