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Thread: Parker 61 pattern identification.

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    Default Parker 61 pattern identification.

    Hi,
    I have a Parker 61 set with a pattern I cannot identify.
    It looks similar to the Cirrus pattern but not exactly the same.
    Could it be a forerunner of the Cirrus, or something else entirely?

    P61 gpset.JPG


    This is a close up of the Cirrus pattern that I am familiar with.
    Uniform parallel lines, with a delicate matt finish.

    cir.JPG


    This is the pattern in question.
    Looks to be randomly brushed and a coarser finish.

    P61 patt.JPG


    Any suggestions welcome.

    Paul.

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    Default Re: Parker 61 pattern identification.

    We meet again.


    Please can you photograph :

    The tassie downwards showing the upper clip construction on both.

    Open the pencil to expose the top of the chrome mechanism and the eraser.


    The ballpoint is more interesting than the FP

    ( Are you sure the box is original ? )

    nb Very few collectors are aware that there are two series of the Cumulus pattern, the first one is alot more intricate ( finer )
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by proteus; May 8th, 2019 at 01:30 PM.

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    Default Re: Parker 61 pattern identification.

    We meet again.
    Well you said you liked P61's


    To be honest I do not think the pattern is that different, possibly more defined.
    The patterns are distinctly different in hand.

    Please can you photograph :

    The tassie downwards showing the upper clip construction on both.

    Open the pencil to expose the top of the chrome mechanism and the eraser.
    Are these any good?

    caps.jpg

    pencil.JPG


    The ballpoint is more interesting than the FP
    Pencil?
    ( Are you sure the box is original ? )
    These were purchased separately, with more than 10 years between them.
    The pencil was without box, The fountain pen came to me in the same box as I show, it was the single pen type, not the double it now is.
    Last edited by Yorvik Pens; May 8th, 2019 at 01:25 PM.

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    proteus (May 8th, 2019)

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    Default Re: Parker 61 pattern identification.

    Forgive me, when I was reading your post & replying, I was trying to buy a pen from another collector.

    My concentration on this was about 5 %.

    Will get back to you tomorrow.

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    Default Re: Parker 61 pattern identification.

    When I put together a collection of the Cloud Series a while back, I assumed that the Cirrus pattern was all brushed matt lines as that is all I have ever seen ( 3 of them only 2 FPs & a RB ).

    After viewing your photography I realised that I had missing the fact that there are two different patterns. The clear line pattern is called Cirrus Insignia ( I have ever seen one )

    The construction of the FP & Pencil are standard for the dates.

    My understanding that the correct box/case for these pens is the brown one shown.

    Can you tell me if either of the pens shown have Parker date dates ?

    Nb - I swopped my set of Clouds for other pens that I wanted, they had just been sitting in my study for too many years.
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    Default Re: Parker 61 pattern identification.

    When I put together a collection of the Cloud Series a while back, I assumed that the Cirrus pattern was all brushed matt lines as that is all I have ever seen ( 3 of them only 2 FPs & a RB ).

    A while back, I used to have a complete collection of the Parker Cloud series, Cirrus (4 pens FP. BP. MP. and fibre tip), Stratus (FP. BP.), Cumulus (FP. BP.), plus a few doubles along the way.
    All the Cirrus pattern pens I have seen (in hand and pictures on the net) have had the "brushed matt lines". This set is different.


    After viewing your photography I realised that I had missing the fact that there are two different patterns. The clear line pattern is called Cirrus Insignia ( I have ever seen one )

    I too have never seen (or heard of) a "Cirrus Insignia" pattern. I am very interested to know where you learned of this "fact" and if you have any more information relating to it.

    The construction of the FP & Pencil are standard for the dates.

    Agreed.

    My understanding that the correct box/case for these pens is the brown one shown.

    I believe the correct box for the Cirrus would have been the same outer clamshell box, as my set is in, but with a light or dark brown, blow moulded inner.
    The overwhelming percentage of Cirrus pattern pens I have owned, some of them "new old stock", were in this type of box (a couple shown below).


    cir2r.JPG

    cir1.JPG

    Can you tell me if either of the pens shown have Parker date dates ?

    Unfortunately, Neither of these pens are date coded.

    A question for you, if I may.
    Regarding the shield stamp on Parker 61 caps, how many variations are you aware of?


    Paul.

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    Default Re: Parker 61 pattern identification.

    Cirrus Insignia is a term used by Tony Fischier

    After I saw your photography I searched ebay UK USA Canada the completed and current auctions for a similar pattern. Although a lot of the photography was average I found at least 3 or 4 with what I think are similar lined cirrus pattern. ( Have attached one - it has not uploaded here correctly - there are clear lines on it - I have never seen this pattern before )

    Please remember my comments are just subjective.

    Perhaps a more informed member than I would wish to add a comment.


    As for Parker shield hallmarks on 61 caps.
    I have ever paid much attention to them
    ( it is an indication of post 1962 production, I have not idea what date Parker ceased printing it on cap )

    I suspect you know vastly more than me.

    My notes are as follows :

    Gold filled - 100 microns solid gold
    1/10 12K GF 14K GF 1/8 14K GF 1/10 14K GF 1/10 16K GF
    Rolled Gold 20 to 40 microns

    1/10 12ct RG 1/10 12ct RG
    Some early versions have a double shield the second one is blank.

    There were a lot of issues in France & Germany with these marks.
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    Default Re: Parker 61 pattern identification.

    Cirrus Insignia is a term used by Tony Fischier.
    Is the term "Cirrus Insignia" used on Tony's website?
    I have searched through the relevant sections and can find no mention of it.


    After I saw your photography I searched ebay UK USA Canada the completed and current auctions for a similar pattern. Although a lot of the photography was average I found at least 3 or 4 with what I think are similar lined cirrus pattern. ( Have attached one - it has not uploaded here correctly - there are clear lines on it - I have never seen this pattern before )

    Please remember my comments are just subjective.

    Perhaps a more informed member than I would wish to add a comment.
    Perhaps.

    As for Parker shield hallmarks on 61 caps.
    I have ever paid much attention to them
    ( it is an indication of post 1962 production, I have not idea what date Parker ceased printing it on cap )

    I suspect you know vastly more than me.
    Debatable.

    My notes are as follows :

    Gold filled - 100 microns solid gold
    1/10 12K GF 14K GF 1/8 14K GF 1/10 14K GF 1/10 16K GF
    Rolled Gold 20 to 40 microns

    1/10 12ct RG 1/10 12ct RG
    Some early versions have a double shield the second one is blank.

    That pretty much covers them, there are also the solid gold shield marks ( 9Ct and 14k ).
    The pen in question has one feature that sets it apart from any other Cirrus pattern (or P61 to be honest) I have ever seen.

    I have no information regarding this stamp and was wondering if anyone here could shed some light on it.


    G10.JPG

    Paul.

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    Default Re: Parker 61 pattern identification.

    Your G10 mark appears to be a date code for prototypes.

    Will post more when I am told more.


    Some provenance of it would be an advantage. ( You can PM it to me, if you wish )
    Last edited by proteus; May 15th, 2019 at 01:02 PM.

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    Default Re: Parker 61 pattern identification.

    Your G10 mark appears to be a date code for prototypes.
    Or possibly 10k rolled Gold (I don't know).

    Will post more when I am told more.
    I await eagerly.

    Some provenance of it would be an advantage. ( You can PM it to me, if you wish )
    No real provenance to speak of.
    As I said earlier, both bought in the wild (world of ebay), with more than 10 years between them.

    Pics below are screenshots of the auctions (personal information deleted).


    g10fp.JPG
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    g10pcl.JPG
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Anyone else seen a G10 stamp on a Parker 61/65 cap?

    I suspect a Ball Pen version exists and possibly a Fibre Tip?

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    Default Re: Parker 61 pattern identification.

    Am sure by now, 9 days later, if anyone had any information they would have posted it

    Your assumption was my initial thought - Gold 10K RG.

    After thinking about it, G = Gold Plated, the 10 is a prototype pattern number.
    Have no idea why they are printed inside a shield.
    My notes show - The Cloud production models were 22K gold electroplated.
    Am not a metallurgist, I have no idea how you would ' matt ' a gold finish but I am sure it is not difficult.


    I thought the people I asked are at the very top of the Parker knowledge ( Fischier only ever superficial assess for Newhaven archives ).

    Asked to two questions :

    G10 ' looks like a date code. '

    Asked another that I knew the answer to ' no idea, will get back to you. '

    A week later, nothing.

    Sorry, just lost the faith in some others I used to look up a while ago.

    On the upside, I have had the privilege to encounter a vastly knowledgeable member here on this forum
    Farmboy

    Nb

    I have searched through the relevant sections and can find no mention of it.

    Fischer website - P65 page

    It sported fine, thin lines which gave it almost a brushed gold look. It was offered as a Fountain pen, Ball pen and Mechanical pencil:
    Cirrus Insignia
    Last edited by proteus; May 20th, 2019 at 02:32 PM.

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