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Thread: The Conid's "Bulkfiller" - Why?

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    Senior Member FredRydr's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Conid's "Bulkfiller" - Why?

    Here's a new image explaining Francis's cam action "stick-slip-breaker ramp." I think it should have been published right-side-up.


    (Courtesy conidpen.com)
    Last edited by FredRydr; May 13th, 2019 at 08:00 PM.

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    Default Re: The Conid's "Bulkfiller" - Why?

    I guess the weakness with any related technology are the seals, some are better than others. This is the older version.


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    Default Re: The Conid's "Bulkfiller" - Why?

    It may not address your point about seals, but Conid kindly sent a replacement packet of "improved" o-rings from Belgium to Pennsylvania, no charge, knowing I was not the original purchaser of the pen. I had only asked for advice about the seal between the main and small chambers. As I recall, the girth of the o-ring in question was increased slightly.
    Last edited by FredRydr; May 13th, 2019 at 08:09 PM.

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    Default Re: The Conid's "Bulkfiller" - Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_of_Clouds View Post
    Why is the bulk filler easier and more effective to clean than a piston filler?
    Drawing water directly on the upstroke and expelling on the downstroke imparts more force for flushing than slowly twisting a piston up and down. Pretty much one cycle and done.

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    Senior Member Lloyd's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Conid's "Bulkfiller" - Why?

    I have a Minimalistica and like, not love, it. It has one fairly large flaw (to me); in order to save money (according to Francis), the rod comes from a different CONID model (as opposed to being made for the Minimalistica). Due to this, the narrow channel from the tank to the feed is longer than necessary. This long narrow channel often suffers cohesion to the degree that the ink doesn't flow without am initializing shake. Also, if using non-gentle/saturated inks, a few quick flushes will not get it thoroughly clean.
    By the way, I don't find it that easy to cleanly fill (I use a Visconti inkpot if I want a full fill or just a till bottle to get a 90% fill). There's always ink on the section after filling. I prefer eyedropper fillers.
    M: I came here for a good argument.
    A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
    M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
    A: It can be.
    M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
    A: No it isn't.
    M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
    A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
    M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
    A: Yes it is!
    M: No it isn't!

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    Senior Member FredRydr's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Conid's "Bulkfiller" - Why?

    Lloyd,

    It's disappointing that Francis acknowledges that is the cause of your ink flow problem and didn't express an interest in a remedy. I use Diamine Sargasso Sea in my Minimalistica and it flows without complaint. Meanwhile, I'll watch for the same symptom from other inks.

    Fred

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    Default Re: The Conid's "Bulkfiller" - Why?

    I know, Fred. I had pmed him at FPN regarding this issue and he rationalized it as a way to reduce selling price. If the rod were longer and the channel shorter, cohesion would have been less likely and the pen's volume would have been larger.

    If there are any typos in this post, I blame Tapatalk!
    M: I came here for a good argument.
    A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
    M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
    A: It can be.
    M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
    A: No it isn't.
    M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
    A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
    M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
    A: Yes it is!
    M: No it isn't!

  12. #48
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    Default Re: The Conid's "Bulkfiller" - Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by arrow View Post
    Doesn't this look like an economy version of these types of pens?
    I ordered one of these WS pens a while back, still waiting...

    To everyone: what's the cost in USD for one of the Conid Bulkfillers?

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    Default Re: The Conid's "Bulkfiller" - Why?

    They range from about $270 to $1435, depending on model, and not including nib or tools. The nibs range from $16 (steel, not available for all models) to $180 (gold). The tools cost and additional $20. Having the nib ground will cost extra.

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    Default Re: The Conid's "Bulkfiller" - Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by silverlifter View Post
    For one, the Conid barrels aren't prone to cracking...
    Neither are 823s.

    Quote Originally Posted by silverlifter View Post
    And I also don't think it is reasonable to blame users for what is clearly a design flaw.
    Wrong, misuse is not a design flaw.

    Quote Originally Posted by silverlifter View Post
    If a tool can't handle being used (and yes, people have had barrels crack without disassembling them), then it is not fit for purpose.
    Wrong, no tool is provided for disassembly, it is explicitly forbidden and will void varranty, and people have not had barrels crack without disassembling them.



    As for Conid - I like what they're doing, but I'm not paying 1000 EUR for a bock or jowo nib. Same goes for Visconti, etc. Perhaps if they made their own nibs or had more interesting nibs, but then the price would probably 5000Ä or something. I don't know. Belgium is expensive and I'm not really willing to pay for it.

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    Default Re: The Conid's "Bulkfiller" - Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by adhoc View Post
    and people have not had barrels crack without disassembling them.

    Apparently, they have:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Zorn
    The one in the shop right now, with a crack at the back end AND one that developed at the section end straight down from the first crack, was not taken apart by it's owner for cleaning. The problem is that the 0 ring in the back end puts outward pressure on the barrel. The crack appears to have developed along a seam in the barrel - the cracks are perfectly in line with each other.
    I have been responsible for derailing this thread enough by simpley pointing out that the pens are prone to cracking. If anyone else wants to argue the point, start a new thread as it is not germane to this one...

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    Default Re: The Conid's "Bulkfiller" - Why?

    If, and I doubt it, any 823s cracked without disassembly, it must be due to tightening procedure spread, which is fascinating to me anyway how theyíre keeping it so tight. But itís so easy to misuse the 823, precisely because itís an engineering work of art. I understand if someone that is not a professional in the field might oversee the details that make it so, though.

  18. #53
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    Default Re: The Conid's "Bulkfiller" - Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by silverlifter View Post


    Apparently, they have:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Zorn
    The one in the shop right now, with a crack at the back end AND one that developed at the section end straight down from the first crack, was not taken apart by it's owner for cleaning. The problem is that the 0 ring in the back end puts outward pressure on the barrel. The crack appears to have developed along a seam in the barrel - the cracks are perfectly in line with each other.
    I have been responsible for derailing this thread enough by simpley pointing out that the pens are prone to cracking. If anyone else wants to argue the point, start a new thread as it is not germane to this one...
    One example does not a case make. From what I've seen nearly all the examples of cracking have happened after disassembly/reassembly. So much so that I now believe that disassembly has occurred in those cases where it doesn't explicitly confirm or deny it.

    In terms of being germane, this thread is mostly looking at a pen that can come with tools for disassembly. There will always be the risk that a user will make a mistake. Time will tell if future Conid disassemblers will find barrel cracks.

  19. #54
    Senior Member FredRydr's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Conid's "Bulkfiller" - Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    ...the rod comes from a different CONID model (as opposed to being made for the Minimalistica). Due to this, the narrow channel from the tank to the feed is longer than necessary. This long narrow channel often suffers cohesion to the degree that the ink doesn't flow without am initializing shake....
    So the rod is longer than otherwise would have been necessary, even in this smaller pen? That seems odd, because the main reservoir could have simply been bored out to be longer (towards the feed), thereby shortening the "channel" without changing other dimensions. But wait, then an even longer rod would be required? Even then, a shorter channel and resulting smaller capacity would have to replenished more often by lifting the rod, perhaps to an annoying degree. It'd be a compromise. I don't think I'm seeing the whole picture, since I don't have one of the larger Conids to compare.
    Last edited by FredRydr; May 15th, 2019 at 08:45 PM.

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    Senior Member Lloyd's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Conid's "Bulkfiller" - Why?

    Shorter. Due to the rod being shorter, the channel is longer.

    If there are any typos in this post, I blame Tapatalk!
    M: I came here for a good argument.
    A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
    M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
    A: It can be.
    M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
    A: No it isn't.
    M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
    A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
    M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
    A: Yes it is!
    M: No it isn't!

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    Default Re: The Conid's "Bulkfiller" - Why?

    I think this thread is helpful for those considering a Conid, weighing different aspects.

    I for one am in that camp despite enjoying my Pilot Custom 823

    I've only been researching so I'll take a 2 cent shot:

    1. Original patent: here's an early version http://www.richardspens.com/ref/fill...inge.htm#means

    2. Why now? I guess like everything niche in this hobby, it took a lot of effort to satisfy a small market. I really respect Conid for actually having a workable and superlative product by the reviews of it. I'd like a Gate City Postal pen but just look at this list of companies that are no more http://www.richardspens.com/ref/fillers/syringe.htm

    3. advantage does it have over a straight vacuum filler? just by mechanism alone, from videos I can only see that fill time and volume is greater than my 823 or TWSBI which may take several pumps, but the appeal of Conid's filling system is not has great as their build quality execution and versatility with nib/feed combinations given the work of Flexible Nibs Factory.

    4. Failure rate? Given the whole pen can be taken apart with the optional tool kit that everyone is griping it should be included, I enjoy the engineering DIY perspective that both TWSBI and Conid markets to its users, unlike say Pilot where the 823 is not as open. Given you can replace the o rings, I would not be surprised if Conid would sell the piston gasket as well. Owners, feel free to verify?

    The biggest thing for me is not so much the cost or even more importantly the wait time, but rather the opportunity cost against rival pens and the fact that I really have a nice stable of pens to enjoy so the Conid if purchased might outclass all the rest and rain on the parade Another thing is I wish the streamline style came back to the Regular size, Kingsize seems a bit heavy jumbo

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    Default Re: The Conid's "Bulkfiller" - Why?

    I'm not a fan of the actual pens as I find them souless (I have tried 5) and overly expensive (I can understand why - will mainly be down to the core company being industrial and having prices based on big discounts for large bulk orders), but I am of their ethics. I do know someone who's Conid (it was a king size) snapped at the back of the nib section (can't remember if that part unscrews). Conid had a free replacement rapidly out to him even though he openly admitted to dropping it. The following is from his blog based on his experience:
    "Conid as a company really do deserve high praise here. Let me remind you that I was responsible for breaking my pen. Conid didnít have to do anything but they did. They also acted swiftly. Enclosed in the envelope with the replacement part was some silicone grease and Conid branded cleaning cloths Ė again going that extra mile.

    Conid want me to send the broken section/barrel back to them so that they can have a closer look at it for possible weaknesses. For this they enclosed the returns label Ė which they have paid for. Again this shows a company wanting to use my misfortune to ascertain whether they need to do something different. (I have to say I donít think that there is any particular weakness in this pen. It was a freak accident and I wager no pen would have survived intact)."

    Edit - updated details having checked my friend's blog.
    Last edited by dapprman; May 16th, 2019 at 02:04 AM.
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    Default Re: The Conid's "Bulkfiller" - Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by dapprman View Post
    ...I find them souless....
    I remember this was a common description of Japanese motorcycles by those who rode British and American bikes. The latter had "character" and were expected to need more care, repair and maintenance (especially roadside!), while the former were boringly reliable and generated little excitement.

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    Default Re: The Conid's "Bulkfiller" - Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by dapprman View Post
    I'm not a fan of the actual pens as I find them souless (I have tried 5)
    I'm actually glad that I'm not the only one who think along the same line about the Conid.
    Having used and held it in my hand, I feel no "electricity" between the pen and I.

    Yes, the pen is well made, well designed, and I even admire Francis as one of the FP genius of our time... but... I can't get excited about this pen, not even a bit.

    It's a stark contrast to the feeling I get when I found that cruddy, unkempt vintage pen with that potential that when I'm done restoring it, it'll become a darling of a pen.
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    Default Re: The Conid's "Bulkfiller" - Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by FredRydr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dapprman View Post
    ...I find them souless....
    I remember this was a common description of Japanese motorcycles by those who rode British and American bikes. The latter had "character" and were expected to need more care, repair and maintenance (especially roadside!), while the former were boringly reliable and generated little excitement.
    Not in my case. While I have always said they are extremely well made and you can see the high levels of tolerance in the parts and the fitting, the nibs do not always meet the same level of quality and many of the Japanese makes are just as well made (though not quite to the same extreme level. I just find them soulless, lacking any real character, cold to touch. I've heard it argued that they are better made TWSBIs are 50x the price.

    @penwash - we are far from alone, and interstingly enough, most if not all the others I meet or who write about simialr feelings to us also acknowledge the quality of the pens.
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