Results 1 to 4 of 4

Thread: De Atramentis CMYK document ink mixing

  1. #1
    Senior Member calamus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    Redwoods Rainforest
    Posts
    855
    Thanks
    742
    Thanked 735 Times in 356 Posts
    Rep Power
    3

    Default De Atramentis CMYK document ink mixing

    I just learned about these inks in the last couple of days. That makes me pretty late late to the discussion, except that it seems never to have taken place here, although the subject was bruited about a bit on the, ahem, other forum about 5 years ago when Dr. Jansen added cyan, magenta and yellow mixable document inks to his lineup. Even that conversation, however, never quite got around to making entirely clear what a big deal that development really was, probably because the artists who joined the discussion about mixing colors came from a painterly perspective, and looked at it in terms of what happens on a palette when you mix paints. One artist said she liked mixing with document blue more than with document cyan because the blue was more like ultramarine, which painters love. I love it too for that matter, and I used to paint in oils many years ago ó was quite passionate about it for a while ó but the significance of the cyan seemed to escape almost everybody.

    Please forgive me if I seem to be burbling aimlessly. I actually have something quite important to say, and if you bear with me just a little longer, all will become clear.

    Okay. I have been a professional graphic designer for about 15 years. Now then, there are two primary color modes that are used for images ó RGB (red-green-blue, the additive primary colors), used for Web art, and CMYK (cyan-magenta-yellow-black, the subtractive primary colors), used for print media. Color printed brochures, magazines, etc., are done in what is called 4-color process, which means that each color you see is produced by mixing together different proportions of cyan, magenta, yellow and black printer inks. The amount of each ink used falls on a scale of 0 to 100. As an example, a light reddish brown might have a CMYK breakdown of 28-43-51-3 (28 parts out of a possible 100 parts of cyan, 43 parts out of a possible 100 of magenta, 51 parts out of 100 yellow, and 3 parts out of 100 black), and a nice medium green could be made from 60-10-77-2. (Aside: the figures aren't supposed to add up to 100; theoretically they could add up to as much as 400, but in practice printers avoid process colors, as they're also called, with more than 240% coverage.) Using De Atramentis document inks and dilution fluid, you should be able to reproduce those colors. There is also document white, which can be used for producing tints (you can also do it with dilution fluid, on white paper).

    What all this means is that you can mix up just about any color you want, and it will be gorgeous, well behaved, waterproof, and lightfast. Thatís a really big deal. Iíve already got a bottle of document black and some dilution fluid on hand, and Iíve got bottles of cyan, magenta, and yellow on the way. Iím also going to get more dilution fluid (which is basically ink without dye or nano-pigments) and a bottle of white.

    Iíve read some claims that the document cyan isnít a pure cyan and the magenta isnít a pure magenta, and the yellow is too weak to use in standard Photoshop CMYK proportions but needs to be increased. I donít know how true those claims are, but the colors are damn close if not spot on, and in any event these arenít standard printer inks, and theyíre not being applied by an ink jet printer or powdered toner and electrostatic charges, so youíll need to play around with them to get the exact results you want. But with a little perseverance, the skyís the limit!

    By the way, artists love De Atramentis document black because it can have watercolor applied over it and it wonít feather or run even the tiniest bit, unlike what sometimes happens with Noodlerís supposedly bulletproof inks. However, for some artists the document black isnít as deep and rich a black as they desire. With the CMYK set of inks, though, you should be able to mix up a deep, rich black that would satisfy the most Stygian tastes. You can even make it a warm rich black, a cool rich black or a neutral one, as you desire. (Google rich black cmyk for discussions about rich blacks and rich black formulś.)

    Finally (itís past my bedtime) here is a link to an article about mixing De Atramentis document inks, written from a painterly perspective:
    https://janeblundellart.blogspot.com...ment-inks.html
    Last edited by calamus; June 4th, 2019 at 11:40 PM.
    Quid rides? Mutato nomine de te fabula narratur. ó Horace
    (What are you laughing at? Just change the name and the jokeís on you.)

  2. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to calamus For This Useful Post:

    Ahriman4891 (June 6th, 2019), azkid (June 4th, 2019), carlos.q (June 5th, 2019), catbert (June 5th, 2019), ceebert (July 24th, 2019), KKay (June 11th, 2019)

  3. #2
    Senior Member calamus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    Redwoods Rainforest
    Posts
    855
    Thanks
    742
    Thanked 735 Times in 356 Posts
    Rep Power
    3

    Default Re: De Atramentis CMYK document ink mixing

    From Jane Blundell's blog:



    Quid rides? Mutato nomine de te fabula narratur. ó Horace
    (What are you laughing at? Just change the name and the jokeís on you.)

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to calamus For This Useful Post:

    azkid (June 5th, 2019), KKay (June 11th, 2019)

  5. #3
    Member Dronak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    99
    Thanks
    13
    Thanked 54 Times in 30 Posts
    Rep Power
    6

    Default Re: De Atramentis CMYK document ink mixing

    I realize this thread is a bit old, but I just found it while searching for information on mixing ink colors, so I hope it's OK to bump it. I recently purchased the Krishna Mix Your Color set, which says it has larger bottles of Primary Red, Primary Yellow, Primary Blue, Light Blue (should be cyan), and Black, plus two small bottles of magenta. So it sounds like RYB and CMYK color systems are both here, which is making it harder for me to figure out just how mixing the colors will work in practice. Not like I know either system really well, but I'm even less sure about how they'd work together.

    There are some sample recipes available online and that's helpful. I think that's meant as a starting point though. I'll probably want to branch out from those but would like to avoid going just by trial-and-error, which may end up wasting ink on results I don't like. I realize I may just have to try things out at some point, but the more accurately I can picture the end result before I start, the better. I tried one or two online color mixing tools, but they didn't seem to quite match the recipes I had for some reason.

    The blog post linked here (and other posts there) have some good demonstrations of mixing colors using De Atramentis inks. This should be useful in improving my sense of how actual ink colors will mix. But can I expect similar results using the Krishna MYC colors? If not, can anyone suggest a good way to get a reasonable idea of what mixing results will be before actually using up ink? Any help users here can provide would be appreciated. Thanks!

  6. #4
    Senior Member calamus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    Redwoods Rainforest
    Posts
    855
    Thanks
    742
    Thanked 735 Times in 356 Posts
    Rep Power
    3

    Default Re: De Atramentis CMYK document ink mixing

    CMYK is used for mixing paints and inks, and is used primarily in printing (magazines, posters, cardboard displays and packaging, etc.). RYB is a much older system, and doesn't work nearly as well. For example, theoretically if you mix red and blue you'll get purple, but in fact I've gotten a muddy plum with every type of paint I've ever tried since childhood, from poster paints to gouache, acrylics, and oils. I've never tried Krishna inks, but I'd be amazed if they were any different.

    I'm still trying to figure out how to mix the colors I want from the DeAtramentis document inks using their CMYK breakdown. If it's something as simple as 0-100-100-0 that's easy; if it's something like 100-72-0-6, that's a different story. It's just occurred to me that it may be as simple as using the proportions: 100 parts cyan to 72 parts magenta to 6 parts black. Actually, I tried that already, come to think of it, and it didn't work most of the time. I think the problem was that using that approach, 100-100-0-0 would end up looking identical to 20-20-0-0, but in reality, 100-100-0-0 is a bright middle green, and 20-20-0-0 is a pale green. So maybe add in white to make tints? I tried using dilution fluid, and that didn't work. Sigh. It's driving me a bit nuts.

    If you want to preview a CMYK breakdown, just use a graphics program like Photoshop (I believe that a free alternative to Photoshop called GIMP will also work, but I'm not sure) and enter the values (in the "Picker" in Photoshop) and it will show you the corresponding color.
    Last edited by calamus; November 6th, 2019 at 03:59 PM.
    Quid rides? Mutato nomine de te fabula narratur. ó Horace
    (What are you laughing at? Just change the name and the jokeís on you.)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •