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Thread: A Change of Perspective.

  1. #21
    Senior Member Detman101's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Change of Perspective.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandy View Post
    I have a Parker Duofold from the 40's. It was my grandfather's.

    The nibs is very different from today's nibs. It is 14K gold, but rather thin - which makes it flexible, it feels fragile and it is not a smooth writer - it has some tooth.

    It's certainly not like any modern nib I have - or the nib on the Parker 51. I have to write slowly with it.

    I'm not trying to say it is a terrible pen - but it certainly is a different writing experience than with a modern pen.
    Which would you say you prefer?
    I often wonder if I'm barking up a tree that willl never fulfill what I expect.
    I have resolved to purchase a "Vintage Flex Pen" next month so that I finally can put this beast to rest...
    "I can only improve my self, not the world."

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    Default Re: A Change of Perspective.

    I have two - The Parker and a Swan.

    I use the Parker for letter writing and postcards, when time is not of the essence. If I'm trying to get 2,000 words down then a solid nib is a much better bet. The "flex" in the nib slows me down - and these pens tend to be wetter, which means it tales longer for the ink to dry. The nib is sharp and can catch on the paper too. Doesn't do any harm, but it slows me down.

    "Flex" pens allow you to get line variation and produce specific styles of calligraphy - but you've got to be conscious of what you are doing to get the best out of it. You've got to invest time to get the most out of it.

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    Senior Member Ole Juul's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Change of Perspective.

    Quote Originally Posted by Detman101 View Post
    I often wonder if I'm barking up a tree that willl never fulfill what I expect.
    I have resolved to purchase a "Vintage Flex Pen" next month so that I finally can put this beast to rest...
    I too have felt a bit of excitement about flex nibs but haven't followed up on it yet. I'm not really sure what I expect to gain from it either. As time goes by I'm thinking that I may not want to go that direction.

    I've got two Noodler's Boston Safety pens which have a little flex and I feel they give a some flair to my writing on occasion, but that amount of flex is not enough to get in the way of writing normally and getting stuff done. I've also got an Esterbrook with a 9788 nib which has a fair amount of flex and very nice feel. Despite the soft feel and line variation possibilities, I don't think I'd want to go any further in that direction. Flex pens just may not be for me. When I see videos of people writing with them they are painfully slow at it - much like a sign painter using a brush.

    So, I'm having second thought about investing in full wet noodle flex. I may just prefer a slight flex for a little emphasis.
    Last edited by Ole Juul; November 13th, 2020 at 02:42 PM.

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    Detman101 (November 13th, 2020)

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    Default Re: A Change of Perspective.

    Context is useful.

    In the time when dip pens were the main instrument, the writing style leaned toward the ornamental. More so than most people's handwriting today I suspect. As it was pretty much the only tool, people learned how to use it and then employed as their "way of writing normally".

    Today we have other tools, most of which require a significantly lesser degree of hand control or skill. It is this, I think, that leads people to downplay the usability of flexible nibs in the current age. Having said that, it is certain that I am not alone in finding flexible nibs perfectly adequate for everyday writing.

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  9. #25
    Senior Member Detman101's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Change of Perspective.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandy View Post
    I have two - The Parker and a Swan.

    I use the Parker for letter writing and postcards, when time is not of the essence. If I'm trying to get 2,000 words down then a solid nib is a much better bet. The "flex" in the nib slows me down - and these pens tend to be wetter, which means it tales longer for the ink to dry. The nib is sharp and can catch on the paper too. Doesn't do any harm, but it slows me down.

    "Flex" pens allow you to get line variation and produce specific styles of calligraphy - but you've got to be conscious of what you are doing to get the best out of it. You've got to invest time to get the most out of it.
    Thank you, I completely understand now.
    I have returned one of my pens to normal for use when writing is the goal. I will keep the others setup as flex pens for when I have the time and patience for fancier style writing.
    This is the best path, as you have stated.
    There is no one pen that can do everything needed...I realize this now.
    I was a fool to attempt to create such an anomaly.
    Once my Swan arrives, I will keep it as a marker of a time forgotten.
    It will be my prize...I doubt it could ever withstand daily carry. The others will endure that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ole Juul View Post
    I too have felt a bit of excitement about flex nibs but haven't followed up on it yet. I'm not really sure what I expect to gain from it either. As time goes by I'm thinking that I may not want to go that direction.

    I've got two Noodler's Boston Safety pens which have a little flex and I feel they give a some flair to my writing on occasion, but that amount of flex is not enough to get in the way of writing normally and getting stuff done. I've also got an Esterbrook with a 9788 nib which has a fair amount of flex and very nice feel. Despite the soft feel and line variation possibilities, I don't think I'd want to go any further in that direction. Flex pens just may not be for me. When I see videos of people writing with them they are painfully slow at it - much like a sign painter using a brush.

    So, I'm having second thought about investing in full wet noodle flex. I may just prefer a slight flex for a little emphasis.
    That is very true, there is no neat way to write fast with a flex pen if you don't have years of experience invested.
    I cannot write nicely any faster than a snails pace with my flex pens, my handwriting will make your eyes bleed...it's so bad.
    The flex nibs that I have modified are softer than stock and I have now had to rework the feeds to flow less ink to compensate for the added softness/noodle-ness.
    It is a frustrating and partly demoralizing path that I wish that I did walk down...sometimes.

    All that glitters...is not gold.
    "I can only improve my self, not the world."

  10. #26
    Senior Member Detman101's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Change of Perspective.

    Quote Originally Posted by A Smug Dill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Detman101 View Post
    There is no one pen that can do everything needed...I realize this now.
    I was a fool to attempt to create such an anomaly.
    …‹snip›… That is very true, there is no neat way to write fast with a flex pen if you don't have years of experience invested.
    I cannot write nicely any faster than a snails pace with my flex pens,
    Part of the issue, and one that a lot people jumping into the fountain pen hobby with the vision of producing more aesthetically pleasing and/or impressive handwriting, is that the individual user alone determines (both the scope and the specifics of) what is “needed” for writing produced by hand; and his/her capability — including but not limited to hand-eye coordination and penmanship knowledge, technique and discipline — would be a far greater constraint that spending money on the “right” pen alone will not magically remove.

    It's up to the user to limit his/her “need”, if “One Pen To Do It All” is the ideal outcome being sought; after all, he/she has probably been sufficiently satisfied just having ballpoint and/or rollerball pens with which to write what has to be handwritten. Some prominent members on FPN and on The Flourish Forum (TFF) have repeated demonstrated that Copperplate and Spencerian script can be produced on the page using a humble pencil, if putting those shapes on paper to form text is a requirement. I don't recall seeing anyone express a “need” to produce Copperplate writing at speed; and, in particular, professional calligraphers (many of whom frequently participate on TFF) advocate writing slowly if and when the form and beauty of the written word really matters on the work product.

    The other thing is, as you've pointed out, a matter of skill and practice. Ideally, a user would be able to specify his/her “needs” and requirements, and some expert manages to produce it with just one or two essential tools — perhaps even a pen that the user already owns — wielding with skill developed over thousands upon thousands of hours of practice. That ought to trigger a true change of perspective, and the user can turn his focus and anguish away from getting the ‘right’ tool, but embark on the frustrating but (hopefully) ultimately rewarding journey of penmanship study and practice instead.

    … Assuming that his/her “needs” haven't changed by the time all those years' worth of investment of effort have been put in and borne fruit.
    You are so very wise. Everything you've said is so true. Pterodactylus has shown me here, before, the same example of pencil-driven calligraphy. The man can produce beautiful penmanship with a hammer and chisel...because he has the skill. The tool does not matter...

    I need to focus on my skill, that is the true goal. And to master the tools I currently have..

    Sent from my LG-M210 using Tapatalk
    "I can only improve my self, not the world."

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    Default Re: A Change of Perspective.

    My philosophy, if you want to call it that, is to set a mental price for a pen I might want. If the price is above that, I will (silently) look, but not buy. I'll click through a gazillion Ebay listings and photos, look on other websites, click through those photos, and so on. But I won't trouble a seller unless I either raise the price I am willing to pay or the seller, with no provocation from me, decides for whatever reason to lower their price to what I am willing to pay. I am willing to bid on ebay auctions up to my predetermined maximum price, whether that's $10 or $500, and I don't feel guilty about that. That's how auctions work. But if I don't end up having the winning bid, I just move on. I don't go back in and increase my bid.

    What that means is I might undervalue one pen and overvalue another, but I don't really worry about that. I'm willing to pay what I'm willing to pay. Sometimes I'm only willing to pay a little because a pen clearly needs extensive repairs, or I'm not sure if it's the genuine article, or I suspect flaws that aren't shown in the description or photographs. I could be completely wrong in my assessment, but by only being willing to pay a little for a pen I am not sure about (or a vendor I'm not sure about), at worst I learn a lesson. At best I get something I want at a good price. I've gotten a couple of lessons along the way, and consider that all part of the fountain pen journey. I also get to think about things like game theory, probability, currency exchange rates, geography, history and society. It's not just about the pen and the money for me. It's about the entire experience, and I'm determined to enjoy it.

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    Default Re: A Change of Perspective.

    In general, for me, a fine point produces a more pleasing, legiable handwritting. I find that a fountain pen fits this need more than a ball point. I could just use a Pilot Precise .5mm, but it's just a bland plastic disposable instrument. Using a FP, and especially one you've personally restored to use produces a satisfaction that goes beyond writing.

    I admit at first I wanted to improve my penmanship. I feel I'm now not so focused on that and more just using the pen as I would the Precise.

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    Detman101 (November 19th, 2020)

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    Senior Member Detman101's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Change of Perspective.

    @Tfarnon: Deb of "Goodwriters" advised me of the selfsame method, which I have adopted to the benefit of my stress levels. I bid on a pen and left it at a price I was not willing to go beyond and ignored all of the email notifications that I was winning/losing.
    I'm feeling much better today and have devised a fallback plan should I not win any auctions.

    @Chuck Naill: I agree, I've gotten so far away from what initially drew me to fountain pens. I should get back to improving my penmanship instead of tinkering all the time.
    "I can only improve my self, not the world."

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    Default Re: A Change of Perspective.

    Quote Originally Posted by Detman101 View Post
    @Tfarnon: Deb of "Goodwriters" advised me of the selfsame method, which I have adopted to the benefit of my stress levels. I bid on a pen and left it at a price I was not willing to go beyond and ignored all of the email notifications that I was winning/losing.
    I'm feeling much better today and have devised a fallback plan should I not win any auctions.

    @Chuck Naill: I agree, I've gotten so far away from what initially drew me to fountain pens. I should get back to improving my penmanship instead of tinkering all the time.
    Enjoy the ride, brotherman !!!

    I am sure we've all been where you are now and evolved as time and interest dictated. It's all good and we have each other to share our individial joys everyday and reduce a bit of the stress life throws our way at times.

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