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Thread: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fil, 14k Gold Cap

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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fil, 14k Gold Cap

    @ Fred Ryder: Are you sure it's even a fountain pen at all? You know, it could be an ickoid shapeshifting space alien disguised as a fountain pen. It's almost impossible to tell them apart from the real thing.
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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fil, 14k Gold Cap

    Although my opinion is not worth anything, the pen is real beauty as it is.

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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fil, 14k Gold Cap

    Some fountain pens offer the opportunity for much meaningless quibbling. It's a pen. Presumably it writes and increases your total of happiness.
    Regards,
    Deb
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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fil, 14k Gold Cap

    On a slightly different tangent, I'm interested in the economics of the Triumph nib. It seems so much larger than most 'regular' nibs; does anyone have figures on the weight of gold in the nib, and weights for comparative sized regular nibs? And did pens with these nibs sell at a premium to other pens?

    The huge width of the nib as it joins the section of course also offers a superb canvas for the pen manufacturer to use - an opportunity of which Sheaffer availed itself liberally as seen in the photos in this thread!

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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fil, 14k Gold Cap

    Quote Originally Posted by kirchh View Post
    Nice pen, though a mismatch; there's no evidence the Crest Masterpiece was offered in any color other than black.

    --Daniel
    When you say there's no evidence, what you mean, of course, is that there is no evidence of which you are aware. Thus, you fail to prove that the pen is a mismatch; it's a non sequitur to say that because you are not aware of certain evidence it follows that the pen must be a mismatch. All you accomplish is to come across sounding as if you think that you are so expert that if you are not aware of evidence pertaining to a Sheaffer, it must not exist.
    Last edited by calamus; November 27th, 2019 at 07:24 PM.
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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fil, 14k Gold Cap

    Quote Originally Posted by pajaro View Post
    Beautiful day indeed. Recollecting that both of you have carped at me in the past, I am regaled and amused.

    The sun is shining! I would like to know if the pen barrel has 5000 on it. Sometimes it is difficult to find the parts to restore a pen to a an original configuration.
    Fred has indicated that the barrel does not have the "5000" imprint. I'm waiting to hear where the White Dot is.

    --Daniel
    “Every discussion which is made from an egoistic standpoint is corrupted from the start and cannot yield an absolutely sure conclusion. The ego puts its own interest first and twists every argument, word, even fact to suit that interest.”
    ― Paul Brunton, The Notebooks of Paul Brunton

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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fil, 14k Gold Cap

    Quote Originally Posted by calamus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kirchh View Post
    Nice pen, though a mismatch; there's no evidence the Crest Masterpiece was offered in any color other than black.

    --Daniel
    When you say there's no evidence, what you mean, of course, is that there is no evidence of which you are aware. Thus, you fail to prove that the pen is a mismatch; it's a non sequitur to say that because you are not aware of certain evidence it follows that the pen must be a mismatch. All you accomplish is to come across sounding as if you think that you are so expert that if you are not aware of evidence pertaining to a Sheaffer, it must not exist.
    I never stated that there was "proof" that the pen was a mismatch, not did I say "the pen must be a mismatch," nor did I say such a model "must not exist," so that's a straw man argument, and because I have not made that claim, there is no non-sequitur.

    When you (repeatedly) fabricate someone else's position in order to attack it, you undermine the assumption that you are engaging in the discussion in good faith.

    What I actually said -- as opposed to the made-up assertions you attributed to me -- is that all the available evidence weighs against the pen being authentic. Only someone arguing in bad faith would pretend that I said that I'd proven the pen is a mismatch, or that the pen must be a mismatch, or that the model does not exist, which are the fabricated claims you said I made.

    If you're genuinely interested in this discussion, please contribute something to it. Are you aware of evidence that Sheaffer offered a model corresponding to the one shown here by Fred?

    --Daniel
    “Every discussion which is made from an egoistic standpoint is corrupted from the start and cannot yield an absolutely sure conclusion. The ego puts its own interest first and twists every argument, word, even fact to suit that interest.”
    ― Paul Brunton, The Notebooks of Paul Brunton

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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fil, 14k Gold Cap

    Quote Originally Posted by Deb View Post
    Some fountain pens offer the opportunity for much meaningless quibbling. It's a pen. Presumably it writes and increases your total of happiness.
    Some people are interested in the history of fountain pens, including which models were offered when, and in what configurations. Others don't care, and a pen is a pen. Being in the latter camp is fine; belittling the first group is puzzling.

    --Daniel
    “Every discussion which is made from an egoistic standpoint is corrupted from the start and cannot yield an absolutely sure conclusion. The ego puts its own interest first and twists every argument, word, even fact to suit that interest.”
    ― Paul Brunton, The Notebooks of Paul Brunton

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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fil, 14k Gold Cap

    Quote Originally Posted by amk View Post
    On a slightly different tangent, I'm interested in the economics of the Triumph nib. It seems so much larger than most 'regular' nibs; does anyone have figures on the weight of gold in the nib, and weights for comparative sized regular nibs? And did pens with these nibs sell at a premium to other pens?
    Triumph nibs came in a range of overall sizes, but they weigh roughly one gram, which is comparable to the mass of the largest flat nibs that were fitted to senior-sized Sheaffer and Parker square end pens of the 1920s. The roughly contemporaneous Parker "51"'s nib was much smaller, but the retail prices of the Sheaffer and Parker top-line pens were comparable.

    --Daniel
    Last edited by kirchh; November 30th, 2019 at 11:53 AM.
    “Every discussion which is made from an egoistic standpoint is corrupted from the start and cannot yield an absolutely sure conclusion. The ego puts its own interest first and twists every argument, word, even fact to suit that interest.”
    ― Paul Brunton, The Notebooks of Paul Brunton

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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fil, 14k Gold Cap

    Quote Originally Posted by kirchh View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by calamus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kirchh View Post
    Nice pen, though a mismatch; there's no evidence the Crest Masterpiece was offered in any color other than black.

    --Daniel
    When you say there's no evidence, what you mean, of course, is that there is no evidence of which you are aware. Thus, you fail to prove that the pen is a mismatch; it's a non sequitur to say that because you are not aware of certain evidence it follows that the pen must be a mismatch. All you accomplish is to come across sounding as if you think that you are so expert that if you are not aware of evidence pertaining to a Sheaffer, it must not exist.
    I never stated that there was "proof" that the pen was a mismatch, not did I say "the pen must be a mismatch," nor did I say such a model "must not exist," so that's a straw man argument, and because I have not made that claim, there is no non-sequitur.

    When you (repeatedly) fabricate someone else's position in order to attack it, you undermine the assumption that you are engaging in the discussion in good faith.

    What I actually said -- as opposed to the made-up assertions you attributed to me -- is that all the available evidence weighs against the pen being authentic. Only someone arguing in bad faith would pretend that I said that I'd proven the pen is a mismatch, or that the pen must be a mismatch, or that the model does not exist, which are the fabricated claims you said I made.

    If you're genuinely interested in this discussion, please contribute something to it. Are you aware of evidence that Sheaffer offered a model corresponding to the one shown here by Fred?

    --Daniel
    You clearly asserted that it was a mismatch, and your stated reason for the assertion was that "there's no evidence the Crest Masterpiece was offered in any color other than black." I made no straw man argument, you're just quibbling and trying to duck the obvious implications of your words.
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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fil, 14k Gold Cap

    Quote Originally Posted by calamus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kirchh View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by calamus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kirchh View Post
    Nice pen, though a mismatch; there's no evidence the Crest Masterpiece was offered in any color other than black.

    --Daniel
    When you say there's no evidence, what you mean, of course, is that there is no evidence of which you are aware. Thus, you fail to prove that the pen is a mismatch; it's a non sequitur to say that because you are not aware of certain evidence it follows that the pen must be a mismatch. All you accomplish is to come across sounding as if you think that you are so expert that if you are not aware of evidence pertaining to a Sheaffer, it must not exist.
    I never stated that there was "proof" that the pen was a mismatch, not did I say "the pen must be a mismatch," nor did I say such a model "must not exist," so that's a straw man argument, and because I have not made that claim, there is no non-sequitur.

    When you (repeatedly) fabricate someone else's position in order to attack it, you undermine the assumption that you are engaging in the discussion in good faith.

    What I actually said -- as opposed to the made-up assertions you attributed to me -- is that all the available evidence weighs against the pen being authentic. Only someone arguing in bad faith would pretend that I said that I'd proven the pen is a mismatch, or that the pen must be a mismatch, or that the model does not exist, which are the fabricated claims you said I made.

    If you're genuinely interested in this discussion, please contribute something to it. Are you aware of evidence that Sheaffer offered a model corresponding to the one shown here by Fred?

    --Daniel
    You clearly asserted that it was a mismatch, and your stated reason for the assertion was that "there's no evidence the Crest Masterpiece was offered in any color other than black." I made no straw man argument, you're just quibbling and trying to duck the obvious implications of your words.
    Incorrect. I offered my expert opinion and I clearly explained my reasoning. The fabricated assertions you attributed to me about “proof” are simply straw man arguments and are void. Your evasion and failure to retract your falsified claims are telling.

    Can you contribute to the discussion? Do you have any evidence that Sheaffer offered a model as shown by Fred?

    —Daniel
    Last edited by kirchh; November 30th, 2019 at 02:34 PM.
    “Every discussion which is made from an egoistic standpoint is corrupted from the start and cannot yield an absolutely sure conclusion. The ego puts its own interest first and twists every argument, word, even fact to suit that interest.”
    ― Paul Brunton, The Notebooks of Paul Brunton

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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fil, 14k Gold Cap

    Quote Originally Posted by kirchh View Post
    What I actually said -- as opposed to the made-up assertions you attributed to me -- is that all the available evidence weighs against the pen being authentic. Only someone arguing in bad faith would pretend that I said that I'd proven the pen is a mismatch, or that the pen must be a mismatch, or that the model does not exist, which are the fabricated claims you said I made.

    —Daniel
    Now that's a straw man argument! You are the one who pulled the "proof" issue out of your anal aperture. I never said that your arrogant posturing, or anything else you displayed, constituted proof or asserted the proof of anything. That was entirely your invention. I never said anything about the model not existing. However, you are again making the supremely arrogant claim that you not being aware of the existence of evidence means that it doesn't exist, or at least is "not available."

    And if "Nice pen, though a mismatch" doesn't constitute an assertion that the pen is a mismatch, then what the hell do you claim it actually means? Answer that, if you dare.
    Last edited by calamus; November 30th, 2019 at 09:52 PM.
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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fil, 14k Gold Cap

    This is a great thread and I'm not really a Sheaffer person.

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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fil, 14k Gold Cap

    Quote Originally Posted by calamus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kirchh View Post
    What I actually said -- as opposed to the made-up assertions you attributed to me -- is that all the available evidence weighs against the pen being authentic. Only someone arguing in bad faith would pretend that I said that I'd proven the pen is a mismatch, or that the pen must be a mismatch, or that the model does not exist, which are the fabricated claims you said I made.

    —Daniel
    Now that's a straw man argument! You are the one who pulled the "proof" issue out of your anal aperture. I never said that your arrogant posturing, or anything else you displayed, constituted proof or asserted the proof of anything.
    False. You wrote,

    You fail to prove that the pen is a mismatch
    Next,

    I never said anything about the model not existing.
    False. You wrote,

    All you accomplish is to come across sounding as if you think that you are so expert that if you are not aware of evidence pertaining to a Sheaffer, it must not exist.
    Next,

    However, you are again making the supremely arrogant claim that you not being aware of the existence of evidence means that it doesn't exist
    False. I never made that claim; you fabricated it. Yet another example of your bad-faith deployment of a straw man fallacy.

    And if "Nice pen, though a mismatch" doesn't constitute an assertion that the pen is a mismatch, then what the hell do you claim it actually means? Answer that, if you dare.
    You're struggling to read with care. I offered my expert opinion and I clearly explained my reasoning, which is that is that all the available evidence weighs against the pen being authentic.

    Stop making up claims and attributing them to me. It's a bad look.

    --Daniel
    “Every discussion which is made from an egoistic standpoint is corrupted from the start and cannot yield an absolutely sure conclusion. The ego puts its own interest first and twists every argument, word, even fact to suit that interest.”
    ― Paul Brunton, The Notebooks of Paul Brunton

  19. #35
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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fil, 14k Gold Cap

    Quote Originally Posted by kirchh View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by calamus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kirchh View Post
    What I actually said -- as opposed to the made-up assertions you attributed to me -- is that all the available evidence weighs against the pen being authentic. Only someone arguing in bad faith would pretend that I said that I'd proven the pen is a mismatch, or that the pen must be a mismatch, or that the model does not exist, which are the fabricated claims you said I made.

    —Daniel
    Now that's a straw man argument! You are the one who pulled the "proof" issue out of your anal aperture. I never said that your arrogant posturing, or anything else you displayed, constituted proof or asserted the proof of anything.
    False. You wrote,

    You fail to prove that the pen is a mismatch
    Next,

    I never said anything about the model not existing.
    False. You wrote,

    All you accomplish is to come across sounding as if you think that you are so expert that if you are not aware of evidence pertaining to a Sheaffer, it must not exist.
    Next,

    However, you are again making the supremely arrogant claim that you not being aware of the existence of evidence means that it doesn't exist
    False. I never made that claim; you fabricated it. Yet another example of your bad-faith deployment of a straw man fallacy.

    And if "Nice pen, though a mismatch" doesn't constitute an assertion that the pen is a mismatch, then what the hell do you claim it actually means? Answer that, if you dare.
    You're struggling to read with care. I offered my expert opinion and I clearly explained my reasoning, which is that is that all the available evidence weighs against the pen being authentic.

    Stop making up claims and attributing them to me. It's a bad look.

    --Daniel
    Look Daniel,

    I'll concede that you have one or two points in your counter-attack. My response was hurried because I only had a few minutes when I wrote it. I didn't recall that I'd said you'd failed to prove your point, even though you hadn't; perhaps I should have worded it differently. Maybe I should have said you'd failed to establish the truth or the validity of your assertion. But clearly, to claim that I'm making a straw man argument in regard to your words "Nice pen, though a mismatch;" by pointing out that you did not use the words "the pen must be a mismatch" is pretty damn absurd. I also didn't recall that I'd used the words "the model doesn't exist" in regard to the obvious implications of your words, which were that "there's no evidence the Crest Masterpiece was offered in any color other than black," which I still contend really means "if the evidence exists, I'm not aware of it," and which would be much more truthful and entirely different kettle of fish. By flat-out declaring that "there's no evidence," you are clearly stating -- well, think about it -- you leave no room for the possibility that evidence of which you are not aware might exist.

    What you are in actual fact doing is attacking my discussion of what, so far as I can determine, your words clearly imply, and feigning innocence by protesting that you never said this or that. Of course you never said this or that, but you've not been able to successfully explain away that what you've said logically leads to the conclusions that I stated. By resorting to howling "straw man argument," I contend that you are in fact being intellectually dishonest.

    You present yourself as a profoundly knowledgeable expert on Sheaffers. Maybe you are, and maybe you're not; I don't know enough about Sheaffers to be able to determine that to my own satisfaction, and I don't pretend to be that knowledgeable. My approach to this discussion has not been regarding Sheaffer-specific minutæ, but rather about what your words clearly imply, and also about how you are coming across, at least to me, and apparently, given their responses to various of your posts in various threads, to at least some others.

    That last element of my post was a mistake on my part. Yes, I find your posts extraordinarily irritating, but it was bad form on my part to say anything about it. It provided a distraction and a point of attack for you. Nevertheless, I still stand by my observations regarding what I still consider to be an accurate picture of the subtext of your comments, despite regretting my rudeness.

    In addition, this pissing contest is getting boring, and I don't care to continue engaging in it any longer. You may have the last word, and may feel free to assert that my words are meaningless, dishonest, untrue, and/or damn lies, or anything else, if it please you.
    Last edited by calamus; December 2nd, 2019 at 12:29 AM.
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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fil, 14k Gold Cap

    Reading through these arguments remind me of shave forums where old Gillette models are identified with the case and not the razor. It can be confusing. Many times a person finds their dream razor only to have the other forum members explain it's in the wrong box. I sometimes think the factory might used whatever box was available at the end of the run. Perhaps this is true for this fine looking fountain pen. Perhaps its a prototype. In the end, members who rain on someone's parade and claim to be an expert makes actual discussion a chore. I trust the OP will be able to fully enjoy their prized FP. Cheers.

    Often, the experts can't agree.

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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fill, 14k Gold Cap

    The pissing contests are profoundly annoying. There are many ways to pass along information, to teach, to share. The best ways aren't being modeled here.

    If the primary goal is establishing dominance, then the primary goal isn't educating the proto-collector and the thread becomes more noise than signal.

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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fil, 14k Gold Cap

    What is a “model”? Is it always something in the catalogs?

    Say there were Sheaffer products not listed in the catalogs. Catalog fundamentalism would then prioritize the output of the Sheaffer sales department over the shop floor.

    Alternatively, we could assume that in Sheaffer’s long history that production was entirely according to The Plan, that all products were listed, and that all the lists are extant. ln this case, we would certainly trust the documents over the pens. But how reasonable is it to make such assumptions?
    Last edited by guyy; December 2nd, 2019 at 03:24 PM.

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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fill, 14k Gold Cap

    Quote Originally Posted by azkid View Post
    The pissing contests are profoundly annoying. There are many ways to pass along information, to teach, to share. The best ways aren't being modeled here.

    If the primary goal is establishing dominance, then the primary goal isn't educating the proto-collector and the thread becomes more noise than signal.
    I've never been a contestant in a pissing contest but my dad won a nudest contest once and that small town it made the newspaper. The headline read "Eberspacher WINS nudest contest by inches!"

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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fil, 14k Gold Cap

    Quote Originally Posted by calamus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kirchh View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by calamus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kirchh View Post
    What I actually said -- as opposed to the made-up assertions you attributed to me -- is that all the available evidence weighs against the pen being authentic. Only someone arguing in bad faith would pretend that I said that I'd proven the pen is a mismatch, or that the pen must be a mismatch, or that the model does not exist, which are the fabricated claims you said I made.

    —Daniel
    Now that's a straw man argument! You are the one who pulled the "proof" issue out of your anal aperture. I never said that your arrogant posturing, or anything else you displayed, constituted proof or asserted the proof of anything.
    False. You wrote,

    You fail to prove that the pen is a mismatch
    Next,

    I never said anything about the model not existing.
    False. You wrote,

    All you accomplish is to come across sounding as if you think that you are so expert that if you are not aware of evidence pertaining to a Sheaffer, it must not exist.
    Next,

    However, you are again making the supremely arrogant claim that you not being aware of the existence of evidence means that it doesn't exist
    False. I never made that claim; you fabricated it. Yet another example of your bad-faith deployment of a straw man fallacy.

    And if "Nice pen, though a mismatch" doesn't constitute an assertion that the pen is a mismatch, then what the hell do you claim it actually means? Answer that, if you dare.
    You're struggling to read with care. I offered my expert opinion and I clearly explained my reasoning, which is that is that all the available evidence weighs against the pen being authentic.

    Stop making up claims and attributing them to me. It's a bad look.

    --Daniel
    Look Daniel,

    I'll concede that you have one or two points in your counter-attack.
    I accept your retraction.

    My response was hurried because I only had a few minutes when I wrote it.
    I don't think attempting to avoid responsibility for your fabrications by attributing your behavior to being "hurried" does you any credit.

    I didn't recall that I'd said you'd failed to prove your point, even though you hadn't; perhaps I should have worded it differently.
    I accept your apology for fabricating assertions and attributing them to me repeatedly.

    Maybe I should have said you'd failed to establish the truth or the validity of your assertion.
    Maybe, but you would have been wrong had you done so. My opinion is valid, and I established its validity. Neither you nor anyone else in this thread has undermined my position with contrary evidence. Are you keeping some under your hat?

    But clearly, to claim that I'm making a straw man argument in regard to your words "Nice pen, though a mismatch;" by pointing out that you did not use the words "the pen must be a mismatch" is pretty damn absurd.
    Yet again, you fail to read plainly written statements with care, so you keep making the same mistake. As is clear, and as I've explained to you repeatedly, I have given my expert opinion, which is that the pen is a mismatch, and I've explained the reasoning behind that opinion, which has not been challenged. I've already exposed the multiple straw man fallacies you've deployed in your attempt to attack me, so I don't recommend that you continue to dig that hole any deeper.

    I also didn't recall that I'd used the words "the model doesn't exist" in regard to the obvious implications of your words, which were that "there's no evidence the Crest Masterpiece was offered in any color other than black," which I still contend really means "if the evidence exists, I'm not aware of it," and which would be much more truthful and entirely different kettle of fish. By flat-out declaring that "there's no evidence," you are clearly stating -- well, think about it -- you leave no room for the possibility that evidence of which you are not aware might exist.
    Again, your failure to recall that you'd fabricated an assertion and attributed it to me, then claimed never to have done so, are on display in this thread, so I'm not sure you want to continue pointing out these unconstructive acts. I'm a Sheaffer expert, and I am familiar with the evidence regarding this model's configurations. As with all things, new evidence can be unearthed. Do you have any? Are you aware of any? Do you know of someone who has such evidence that has never been publicly discussed, or privately shared among Sheaffer experts? Contribute something to the discussion.

    What you are in actual fact doing is attacking my discussion of what, so far as I can determine, your words clearly imply, and feigning innocence by protesting that you never said this or that.
    You've already confessed that you made up claims and attributed them to me. I don't recommend attempting to regain that ground by asserting that I said one thing -- quite clearly -- but meant something else, and you were attacking that something else that I never said. if you choose to imagine assertions I never made so that you could attack those imaginary assertions, i'm afraid you're not going to make much headway in a rational discussion.

    Of course you never said this or that, but you've not been able to successfully explain away that what you've said logically leads to the conclusions that I stated. By resorting to howling "straw man argument," I contend that you are in fact being intellectually dishonest.
    Your contention is baseless, unsurprisingly. First, you've already admitted that you engaged in multiple straw man arguments, which voids them. And now you acknowledge that I never said this or that (which you'd claimed I'd said), so that takes care of the positions you fabricated and attributed to me. I've already explained the basis for my expert opinion, though if you have specific factual or logical objections, I'm happy to discuss those; none has been forthcoming so far, but I remain open-minded. Got facts?

    You present yourself as a profoundly knowledgeable expert on Sheaffers. Maybe you are, and maybe you're not; I don't know enough about Sheaffers to be able to determine that to my own satisfaction, and I don't pretend to be that knowledgeable.
    So what's your beef?

    My approach to this discussion has not been regarding Sheaffer-specific minutæ, but rather about what your words clearly imply
    My words clearly imply that, in my expert opinion, the pen is a mismatch. I've provided the reasoning behind that opinion. All the made-up inferences you concocted and then attacked exist only in your mind.

    ...and also about how you are coming across, at least to me, and apparently, given their responses to various of your posts in various threads, to at least some others.
    I guess you're very sensitive to what everyone thinks of you, as this apparent projection indicates. I don't care if a few people don't like opinions based on facts and logic; that's expected.

    That last element of my post was a mistake on my part. Yes, I find your posts extraordinarily irritating, but it was bad form on my part to say anything about it.
    Don't read my posts. Unless, of course, you actually do like them, which I'm starting to suspect, given the degree of your engagement with me. Remember, you addressed me first.

    I still stand by my observations regarding what I still consider to be an accurate picture of the subtext of your comments, despite regretting my rudeness.
    There is no subtext, except in your mind. There is text, and the text is clear and unambiguous. I suggest not imagining things so that you can then attack them.

    In addition, this pissing contest is getting boring, and I don't care to continue engaging in it any longer. You may have the last word, and may feel free to assert that my words are meaningless, dishonest, untrue, and/or damn lies, or anything else, if it please you.
    Why would you think I'd need your permission to respond to what you wrote?

    --Daniel
    “Every discussion which is made from an egoistic standpoint is corrupted from the start and cannot yield an absolutely sure conclusion. The ego puts its own interest first and twists every argument, word, even fact to suit that interest.”
    ― Paul Brunton, The Notebooks of Paul Brunton

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