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Thread: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fil, 14k Gold Cap

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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fil, 14k Gold Cap

    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_of_Clouds View Post
    Hard to imagine someone being as tone deaf as what you are displaying here. Essentially you are a speaker who has no skill in gauging an audience.
    It's interesting that you're using insults, given your claims to being very concerned about how you are perceived. I see this when people are not able to form cogent arguments using facts and reason.


    Here's an example of how you could have worded the original without ruffling feathers.

    Hi Fred, that sure is a great looking pen. I've not yet come across a non-black bodied Masterpiece in my study of Sheaffer history. It's possible that it could be off-catalogue, but I don't know for sure. Did the seller give any clues about provenance? Either way it still a super nice pen
    Now you may think this is unnecessarily flowery, but in a casual forum - which is what this place mostly is - this kind of approach is more likely to get your message across and stimulate further discussion.
    It's not that it's unnecessarily flowery, it's that it contains multiple false statements. I understand that you would choose to say things that aren't true, or to express opinions you don't hold, in an attempt to be popular with everyone, but I'm simply not. I don't see a reason to make up false statements to protect people from their own difficulties accepting information.

    And finally, the simple facts:

    1. You pissed off a bunch of us.
    No; information pissed off one person, and someone else I did not even address fabricated several statements, attributed them to me, and then attacked me for them. I exposed these fabrications, and they apparently were pissed off by that exposure. Some other people didn't like reading the ensuing argument, which I won handily. I'm not responsible for some other people's difficulties accepting information; that's on them. I'm not responsible for the inevitable embarrassment that comes when someone's falsehoods are exposed; that's on them. If people don't like seeing arguments, they should ask people not to start them on a dishonest basis. Again, you seem very, very concerned with your popularity; I'm not in the least.

    2. You don't understand why.
    I understand why. Some people don't like learning information that doesn't please them, and some people don't like having their fabrications exposed.

    3. You were told why.
    No. You gave your opinion, which I don't agree with.

    4. You don't accept our explanation of why.
    Our? Is this a group message? It's not signed. Who all contributed to it?

    5. You prefer your self-grooming explanation.
    Define "self-grooming explanation," preferably with a citation. I haven't seen that term previously. I'm not sure what it would mean for an explanation to groom itself.

    Remember the last time I asked you to tell me how to think? Yeah, me neither.
    You've spent multiple posts trying to tell me how to think. You seem very concerned with trying to make other people want to be as popular as you try to be. Our values are different.

    --Daniel
    Last edited by kirchh; December 13th, 2019 at 10:41 PM.
    “Every discussion which is made from an egoistic standpoint is corrupted from the start and cannot yield an absolutely sure conclusion. The ego puts its own interest first and twists every argument, word, even fact to suit that interest.”
    ― Paul Brunton, The Notebooks of Paul Brunton

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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fil, 14k Gold Cap

    It's interesting that you're using insults, given your claims to being very concerned about how you are perceived. I see this when people are not able to form cogent arguments using facts and reason.
    I've never claimed to being concerned about how I am perceived. You are simply projecting in an attempt to deflect

    Insults are only insults when they have no purpose but to insult. My previous statements are based on my perception and opinion of your behaviour in this thread. Dismiss them in your own mind if you like, it doesn't invalidate them.

    It's not that it's unnecessarily flowery, it's that it contains multiple false statements. I understand that you would choose to say things that aren't true, or to express opinions you don't hold, in an attempt to be popular with everyone, but I'm simply not. I don't see a reason to make up false statements to protect people from their own difficulties accepting information.
    There are no false statements in the suggested rewrite, unless you think it's not a nice pen. In which case your could just dispense with that piece of small talk, as that is what that is. (It occurs to me that perhaps you don't know what small talk is). So, another selective interpretation on your part.

    Some other people didn't like reading the ensuing argument, which I won handily.
    While this is a snipped quote, it really sums up your entire agenda, doesn't it? Kind of from the Trump school of argument really.


    As for the rest, you didn't understand why, your later posts make this abundantly clear.

    You've spent multiple posts trying to tell me how to think. You seem very concerned with trying to make other people want to be as popular as you try to be. Our values are different.
    Made me laugh. Have you really so little concept of just how unpopular I am? Either you are clueless or this is another deliberate falsity on your part.


    There is no critical discussion with you that ever ends with you saying "maybe the other guy has a point". You are congenitally self-righteous.

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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fil, 14k Gold Cap

    People often struggle with coping with information that conflicts with their existing preferred beliefs; when that happens, some types of people attack the messenger rather than recognizing that reality is different from what they had hoped. That's on them.
    --Daniel
    This is precisely what I am accusing you of doing in this thread - in the conversation beyond the pen, to be clear.

    This is your default position:

    1. When you claim that other people struggle with coping... and so on, then you must be right.
    2. When others level the same statement at you, they must be wrong.


    It never occurs to you that the reverse can (and certainly will on occasion) be true, does it?

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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fil, 14k Gold Cap

    Quote Originally Posted by Farmboy View Post
    I'm still reading.
    Wasn't even much fun...
    Last edited by Empty_of_Clouds; December 14th, 2019 at 12:16 AM.

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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fil, 14k Gold Cap

    I have had problems in the past with Daniel's posts on occasion. I find interacting with him occasionally difficult as he has his own way of being in the (virtual) world that is quite different from my own. But I have learned over the years to accept it and to rather focus on the substantial knowledge he generously shares and not the manner is which it is presented. I am a big vintage Sheaffer booster and his level of knowledge of all these Sheaffer and metal (specifically) is frankly non-trivial. I have had some private interactions with him (via pm) that were very pleasant. I just think that he cares a lot about accuracy and detail and is less interested in the chatty informal conversation.

    Why am I talking about him like he isn't here? Daniel. I learn a lot from your posts. You are sometimes prickly. But thanks for posting. Hope you hang around. It would be nice if you loosen up some, but it would also be nice to find a vintage masterpiece new in box for $10. Neither is likely to happen. I am okay with that. I hope you publish on Sheaffer someday.

    Peace everyone.

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    Senior Member azkid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fill, 14k Gold Cap

    EoC, I felt your message was spot on.

    The term "Tone deaf" is not an insult as much as an opinion on a person's apparent lack of awareness of their audience. I felt it was apropos as well. Not everyone is equally capable of, or willing to employ, theory of mind when interacting with others.

    Also dkirch's estimation of the number of people pissed off is incorrect. I was also pissed off by his tone and style but as of a few moments ago, I now realize it almost certainly will not ever change.

    It is a fact of human psychology that all people tend to resist new facts or opinions that run contrary to their belief and resistance is roughly in proportion to how closely held, or personally significant those beliefs are. I think most of us could find at least one clear example of that in this thread.

    Anyway I must run along to prep for an elementary school robotics competition.

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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fil, 14k Gold Cap

    Quote Originally Posted by stub View Post
    I hope you publish on Sheaffer someday.
    DK has had a number of excellent articles in "The Pennant", the magazine from the Pen Collectors of America.
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fil, 14k Gold Cap

    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_of_Clouds View Post

    I've never claimed to being concerned about how I am perceived. You are simply projecting in an attempt to deflect
    Your repeated attempts to tell me that I should strive to be more popular reasonably led me to infer that you believed people should care about being popular. If you don't care about being popular, but you're telling me I should, that's a form of hypocrisy.

    Insults are only insults when they have no purpose but to insult. My previous statements are based on my perception and opinion of your behaviour in this thread. Dismiss them in your own mind if you like, it doesn't invalidate them.
    Disappointing that you're distancing yourself from your own words, which are clearly intended to be insulting (though they didn't have that effect). Own them.

    It's not that it's unnecessarily flowery, it's that it contains multiple false statements. I understand that you would choose to say things that aren't true, or to express opinions you don't hold, in an attempt to be popular with everyone, but I'm simply not. I don't see a reason to make up false statements to protect people from their own difficulties accepting information.
    There are no false statements in the suggested rewrite, unless you think it's not a nice pen. In which case your could just dispense with that piece of small talk, as that is what that is. (It occurs to me that perhaps you don't know what small talk is). So, another selective interpretation on your part.
    There are multiple false statements, as you implicitly admit when you write, "there are no false statements in the suggested rewrite, unless you think it's not a nice pen." I stated that it was a nice pen, but, of course, that's not what your rewrite says; the fact that you mischaracterized your own rewrite is telling. Let's dig in:

    Hi Fred, that sure is a great looking pen.
    I don't think it's a great-looking pen; I think it's a nice pen. False statement 1.

    I've not yet come across a non-black bodied Masterpiece in my study of Sheaffer history.
    Falsely states the basis of my opinion so as to weaken it to the point of near-meaninglessness, thus conveying false information and withholding vital information. False statement 2.

    Did the seller give any clues about provenance?
    Falsely presents a question that I would not ask here in order to feign interest. Effectively false statement 3.

    Either way it still a super nice pen.
    Again falsely states my assessment of the pen, which I do not think is "super-nice." I guess you would mislead someone about your opinion; I choose not to.

    More generally, I give Fred more credit than to think he has to treated as some sort of fragile snowflake who has to be fed some made-up nonsense to avoid bruising his delicate sensibilities, as though he were a child. Apparently, our opinions of him differ in that regard.

    Some other people didn't like reading the ensuing argument, which I won handily.
    While this is a snipped quote, it really sums up your entire agenda, doesn't it? Kind of from the Trump school of argument really.
    Ah, the ad hominem argument. This is generally an excellent indicator of the inability to construct a rational argument using facts and logic. Resorting to name-calling is a tell. These are mounting.

    I was pointing out that the attack on me, being constructed of fabrications, was entirely baseless; the evidence of that is the fact that it was so easy to win. That's just facts.

    You've spent multiple posts trying to tell me how to think. You seem very concerned with trying to make other people want to be as popular as you try to be. Our values are different.
    Made me laugh. Have you really so little concept of just how unpopular I am? Either you are clueless or this is another deliberate falsity on your part.
    I don't know anything about you. If you are explaining that despite the fact that you've spent multiple posts trying to tell me how to think, and that you seem very concerned with trying to make other people want to be popular, you don't believe in that same principle for yourself, that's an indicator of hypocrisy. Apparently, you desperately want me to try to be popular, but you don't try to be popular. Weird.

    What are the other statements of mine that you claim are "deliberate falsities?" I'd like to address them.

    There is no critical discussion with you that ever ends with you saying "maybe the other guy has a point". You are congenitally self-righteous.
    More personal insults; more tells. Also, I note the obvious logical fallacy of "I haven't seen you concede a point so therefore you won't even when you're wrong." This is a completely ineffective mechanism for making progress in a discussion.

    --Daniel
    Last edited by kirchh; December 14th, 2019 at 12:20 PM.
    “Every discussion which is made from an egoistic standpoint is corrupted from the start and cannot yield an absolutely sure conclusion. The ego puts its own interest first and twists every argument, word, even fact to suit that interest.”
    ― Paul Brunton, The Notebooks of Paul Brunton

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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fil, 14k Gold Cap

    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_of_Clouds View Post
    People often struggle with coping with information that conflicts with their existing preferred beliefs; when that happens, some types of people attack the messenger rather than recognizing that reality is different from what they had hoped. That's on them.
    --Daniel
    This is precisely what I am accusing you of doing in this thread - in the conversation beyond the pen, to be clear.
    It's what you are falsely accusing me of, because, as the record proves, I don't attack the messenger personally, even when their message is nasty or based on fabrications. And, of course, I've not been presented with any information that conflicts with my existing preferred beliefs; you've mostly been trying to tell me how to think and behave in pursuit of increased popularity -- a goal you insist I should embrace, while apparently rejecting it yourself.

    This is your default position:

    1. When you claim that other people struggle with coping... and so on, then you must be right.
    2. When others level the same statement at you, they must be wrong.
    A new fallacious argument -- the straw man. You can't make a point by building it on fallacies.

    It never occurs to you that the reverse can (and certainly will on occasion) be true, does it?
    Mind-reading is a bad look, because it's unsupportable, and often indicative of the absence of a factual and rational basis for a claim.

    --Daniel
    “Every discussion which is made from an egoistic standpoint is corrupted from the start and cannot yield an absolutely sure conclusion. The ego puts its own interest first and twists every argument, word, even fact to suit that interest.”
    ― Paul Brunton, The Notebooks of Paul Brunton

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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fil, 14k Gold Cap

    Quote Originally Posted by stub View Post
    I hope you publish on Sheaffer someday.
    I've written a number of articles on Sheaffer (and on other makers, too) over the years. Some have been published in the Pennant, and there are a few on my website.

    --Daniel
    “Every discussion which is made from an egoistic standpoint is corrupted from the start and cannot yield an absolutely sure conclusion. The ego puts its own interest first and twists every argument, word, even fact to suit that interest.”
    ― Paul Brunton, The Notebooks of Paul Brunton

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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fill, 14k Gold Cap

    Quote Originally Posted by azkid View Post
    It is a fact of human psychology that all people tend to resist new facts or opinions that run contrary to their belief and resistance is roughly in proportion to how closely held, or personally significant those beliefs are.
    I disagree with the claim that all people fall into this category.

    -
    -Daniel
    “Every discussion which is made from an egoistic standpoint is corrupted from the start and cannot yield an absolutely sure conclusion. The ego puts its own interest first and twists every argument, word, even fact to suit that interest.”
    ― Paul Brunton, The Notebooks of Paul Brunton

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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fil, 14k Gold Cap

    Quote Originally Posted by kirchh View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by azkid View Post
    It is a fact of human psychology that all people tend to resist new facts or opinions that run contrary to their belief and resistance is roughly in proportion to how closely held, or personally significant those beliefs are.
    I disagree with the claim that all people fall into this category.

    -
    -Daniel
    Right. Some of us are but humble, plain spoken seekers of truth who never, ever discuss from an “egoistic standpoint”.

    And now, a post from LastWordBot

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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fil, 14k Gold Cap

    You're probably wasting your time, as have I, engaging with a logic chopper (his posts are archetypal).

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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fil, 14k Gold Cap

    Quote Originally Posted by kirchh View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_of_Clouds View Post
    People often struggle with coping with information that conflicts with their existing preferred beliefs; when that happens, some types of people attack the messenger rather than recognizing that reality is different from what they had hoped. That's on them.
    --Daniel
    This is precisely what I am accusing you of doing in this thread - in the conversation beyond the pen, to be clear.
    It's what you are falsely accusing me of, because, as the record proves, I don't attack the messenger personally, even when their message is nasty or based on fabrications. And, of course, I've not been presented with any information that conflicts with my existing preferred beliefs; you've mostly been trying to tell me how to think and behave in pursuit of increased popularity -- a goal you insist I should embrace, while apparently rejecting it yourself.

    I draw your attention to the bolded part above, which you have conveniently ignored. I am referring to your preferred beliefs about the behaviour of others and of yourself. Nothing to do with the pen.

    This is your default position:

    1. When you claim that other people struggle with coping... and so on, then you must be right.
    2. When others level the same statement at you, they must be wrong.
    A new fallacious argument -- the straw man. You can't make a point by building it on fallacies.

    I'm not making an argument, that is a misconception of yours. I am offering an analysis based on your presentation in this thread. Therefore there is nothing fallacious about it.

    It never occurs to you that the reverse can (and certainly will on occasion) be true, does it?
    Mind-reading is a bad look, because it's unsupportable, and often indicative of the absence of a factual and rational basis for a claim.

    See previous response above. This is analysis not mind-reading.

    --Daniel


    You show a remarkable rigidity in your approach to a conversation. Like you don't understand common ways of expression. A case in point is you jumping on "Hi Fred, that's a great looking pen" with
    I don't think it's a great-looking pen; I think it's a nice pen. False statement 1.
    As I was offering only an example (which was perfectly made clear at the time) I cannot be accused of making false statements, so your reasoning is quite flawed.

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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fil, 14k Gold Cap

    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_of_Clouds View Post
    You're probably wasting your time, as have I, engaging with a logic chopper (his posts are archetypal).
    More personal insults; more tells. This strikes me as ironic given your insistence that I should bend over backwards to avoid offense, but therein it neatly serves to reveal the deep hypocrisy at the root of the purported purpose.

    --Daniel
    “Every discussion which is made from an egoistic standpoint is corrupted from the start and cannot yield an absolutely sure conclusion. The ego puts its own interest first and twists every argument, word, even fact to suit that interest.”
    ― Paul Brunton, The Notebooks of Paul Brunton

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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fill, 14k Gold Cap

    Quote Originally Posted by kirchh View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by azkid View Post
    It is a fact of human psychology that all people tend to resist new facts or opinions that run contrary to their belief and resistance is roughly in proportion to how closely held, or personally significant those beliefs are.
    I disagree with the claim that all people fall into this category.

    -
    -Daniel

    Hard luck. All people fall into this category. The psych evidence is clear. That you reject it is not surprising given your performance on this thread.*



    *just to make this clear, this is not an insult nor an argument, but analysis from the evidence.

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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fil, 14k Gold Cap

    Quote Originally Posted by kirchh View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_of_Clouds View Post
    You're probably wasting your time, as have I, engaging with a logic chopper (his posts are archetypal).
    More personal insults; more tells. This strikes me as ironic given your insistence that I should bend over backwards to avoid offense, but therein it neatly serves to reveal the deep hypocrisy at the root of the purported purpose.

    --Daniel
    There are generalities and then there are specific cases. In this thread, I make a small case for general approach to friendly conversation. In your specific case this doesn't apply because you don't seem to understand social norms, so I am being blunt. It's not a hypocrisy but rather a adaptive response to a fluid situation.

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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fil, 14k Gold Cap

    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_of_Clouds View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kirchh View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_of_Clouds View Post
    People often struggle with coping with information that conflicts with their existing preferred beliefs; when that happens, some types of people attack the messenger rather than recognizing that reality is different from what they had hoped. That's on them.
    --Daniel
    This is precisely what I am accusing you of doing in this thread - in the conversation beyond the pen, to be clear.
    It's what you are falsely accusing me of, because, as the record proves, I don't attack the messenger personally, even when their message is nasty or based on fabrications. And, of course, I've not been presented with any information that conflicts with my existing preferred beliefs; you've mostly been trying to tell me how to think and behave in pursuit of increased popularity -- a goal you insist I should embrace, while apparently rejecting it yourself.

    I draw your attention to the bolded part above, which you have conveniently ignored. I am referring to your preferred beliefs about the behaviour of others and of yourself. Nothing to do with the pen.

    I specifically was referring to the bolded part. I didn't attack the messenger personally, even when their message is nasty or based on fabrications. And, of course, I've not been presented with any information that conflicts with my existing preferred beliefs; you've mostly been trying to tell me how to think and behave in pursuit of increased popularity -- a goal you insist I should embrace, while apparently rejecting it yourself.

    This is your default position:

    1. When you claim that other people struggle with coping... and so on, then you must be right.
    2. When others level the same statement at you, they must be wrong.
    A new fallacious argument -- the straw man. You can't make a point by building it on fallacies.

    I'm not making an argument, that is a misconception of yours. I am offering an analysis based on your presentation in this thread. Therefore there is nothing fallacious about it.

    You're mistaken. Your analysis is offered in furtherance of your argument. This isn't complicated.

    It never occurs to you that the reverse can (and certainly will on occasion) be true, does it?
    Mind-reading is a bad look, because it's unsupportable, and often indicative of the absence of a factual and rational basis for a claim.

    See previous response above. This is analysis not mind-reading.

    No; it's an analysis based on mind-reading, and it's void.

    You show a remarkable rigidity in your approach to a conversation. Like you don't understand common ways of expression. A case in point is you jumping on "Hi Fred, that's a great looking pen" with
    I don't think it's a great-looking pen; I think it's a nice pen. False statement 1.
    As I was offering only an example (which was perfectly made clear at the time) I cannot be accused of making false statements, so your reasoning is quite flawed.
    Incorrect. The example you offered contained false statements. You certainly can retract your example as being inapplicable due to it's false content; that would be the appropriate thing to do. An example that's inapplicable due to falsity doesn't serve as an example at all in any useful sense. As for my rigidity, I adhere to facts and logic in an argument that purports to be about factual matters; I certainly agree that many others feel no such constraints, as we see in abundance here; they appear to prefer to engage in logical fallacies, insults, ad hominem attacks, fabrications, and the like. I view that approach as distinctly unproductive, so I don't engage in it.

    I stress again that if your purpose is to convince me that I should want to be popular -- though you don't share that status or goal -- you're very unlikely to succeed, and I certainly wouldn't attain that status by modeling your own approach to discussion, for the reasons explained previously.

    --Daniel
    “Every discussion which is made from an egoistic standpoint is corrupted from the start and cannot yield an absolutely sure conclusion. The ego puts its own interest first and twists every argument, word, even fact to suit that interest.”
    ― Paul Brunton, The Notebooks of Paul Brunton

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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fill, 14k Gold Cap

    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_of_Clouds View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kirchh View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by azkid View Post
    It is a fact of human psychology that all people tend to resist new facts or opinions that run contrary to their belief and resistance is roughly in proportion to how closely held, or personally significant those beliefs are.
    I disagree with the claim that all people fall into this category.

    -
    -Daniel
    Hard luck. All people fall into this category. The psych evidence is clear. That you reject it is not surprising given your performance on this thread.*

    *just to make this clear, this is not an insult nor an argument, but analysis from the evidence.
    Please cite the psych evidence that all people fall into this category.

    That I reject it is indicative of my personal experience and my general knowledge that absolute statements of this form rarely hold true. I don't contest that you resist new facts or opinions that run contrary to your beliefs.

    --Daniel
    “Every discussion which is made from an egoistic standpoint is corrupted from the start and cannot yield an absolutely sure conclusion. The ego puts its own interest first and twists every argument, word, even fact to suit that interest.”
    ― Paul Brunton, The Notebooks of Paul Brunton

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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fil, 14k Gold Cap

    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_of_Clouds View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kirchh View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_of_Clouds View Post
    You're probably wasting your time, as have I, engaging with a logic chopper (his posts are archetypal).
    More personal insults; more tells. This strikes me as ironic given your insistence that I should bend over backwards to avoid offense, but therein it neatly serves to reveal the deep hypocrisy at the root of the purported purpose.

    --Daniel
    There are generalities and then there are specific cases. In this thread, I make a small case for general approach to friendly conversation. In your specific case this doesn't apply because you don't seem to understand social norms, so I am being blunt. It's not a hypocrisy but rather a adaptive response to a fluid situation.
    False; you are referring to me insultingly in a message addressed to a third party. This exposes the after-the-fact rationalization you offer here. This emphasizes the essence of the hypocrisy.

    It's interesting that you claim that referring insultingly to me in a post directed at a third part is your "adaptive response" in your attempt to make me want to be more popular. I'm not sure that's a reason-based adaptation; it doesn't seem as though that would yield the desired outcome.

    --Daniel
    Last edited by kirchh; December 14th, 2019 at 02:09 PM.
    “Every discussion which is made from an egoistic standpoint is corrupted from the start and cannot yield an absolutely sure conclusion. The ego puts its own interest first and twists every argument, word, even fact to suit that interest.”
    ― Paul Brunton, The Notebooks of Paul Brunton

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