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Thread: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fil, 14k Gold Cap

  1. #81
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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fil, 14k Gold Cap

    Please cite the psych evidence that all people fall into this category.

    That I reject it is indicative of my personal experience and my general knowledge that absolute statements of this form rarely hold true. I don't contest that you resist new facts or opinions that run contrary to your beliefs.

    No, I don't think I will. I suspect that you would reject the evidence because it would conflict with your views.


    edit: you weren't paying attention. You said "I don't contest that you resist new facts or opinions that run contrary to your beliefs." [emphasis mine]. This is precisely what you have done throughout, resisted opinions that run counter to your own beliefs. You won't see it that way of course. There has to be another explanation for you.

    As someone else noted.
    Right. Some of us are but humble, plain spoken seekers of truth who never, ever discuss from an “egoistic standpoint”.
    Last edited by Empty_of_Clouds; December 14th, 2019 at 02:35 PM.

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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fil, 14k Gold Cap

    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_of_Clouds View Post
    Please cite the psych evidence that all people fall into this category.

    That I reject it is indicative of my personal experience and my general knowledge that absolute statements of this form rarely hold true. I don't contest that you resist new facts or opinions that run contrary to your beliefs.
    No, I don't think I will. I suspect that you would reject the evidence because it would conflict with your views.
    You're abandoning your claim, using as an excuse another fallacy -- the "I could prove it but you wouldn't believe the proof" prediction-based argumentation error. Therefore, your claim here is voided.

    edit: you weren't paying attention. You said "I don't contest that you resist new facts or opinions that run contrary to your beliefs." [emphasis mine]. This is precisely what you have done throughout, resisted opinions that run counter to your own beliefs. You won't see it that way of course. There has to be another explanation for you.
    More mind-reading and prediction-based fallacies. But I accept your implicit admission that you resist new facts or opinions that run contrary to your beliefs, not that this was in question.

    As someone else noted.
    Right. Some of us are but humble, plain spoken seekers of truth who never, ever discuss from an “egoistic standpoint”.
    This certainly is further evidence that you are not at all concealing your hypocrisy with regard to trying to compel me to try to be popular while making efforts in the opposite direction on your own behalf, here evidenced in the second-hand deployment of snark and empty sarcasm. At least you're consistent.

    --Daniel
    “Every discussion which is made from an egoistic standpoint is corrupted from the start and cannot yield an absolutely sure conclusion. The ego puts its own interest first and twists every argument, word, even fact to suit that interest.”
    ― Paul Brunton, The Notebooks of Paul Brunton

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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fil, 14k Gold Cap

    Actually I was quoting you.

    Please cite the psych evidence that all people fall into this category.

    That I reject it is indicative of my personal experience and my general knowledge that absolute statements of this form rarely hold true. I don't contest that you resist new facts or opinions that run contrary to your beliefs.
    You imply, quite clearly in fact, that YOU don't resist new facts or opinions that run contrary to your beliefs.

    Daniel, you have resisted other people's opinions (on your involvement here specifically) throughout this thread. It would take a high degree of obtuseness not to recognise that.



    Also of note is that implying your "personal experience" and "general knowledge" as being of greater merit than the weight of scientific consensus... well, hubris comes to mind.


    EDIT: there is nothing I have written that shows that I reject new facts.

    Further EDIT: I don't mind being called a hypocrite - but I note that you are not above hypocrisy yourself.
    Last edited by Empty_of_Clouds; December 14th, 2019 at 03:21 PM.

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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fil, 14k Gold Cap

    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_of_Clouds View Post
    Actually I was quoting you.

    Please cite the psych evidence that all people fall into this category.

    That I reject it is indicative of my personal experience and my general knowledge that absolute statements of this form rarely hold true. I don't contest that you resist new facts or opinions that run contrary to your beliefs.
    You imply, quite clearly in fact, that YOU don't resist new facts or opinions that run contrary to your beliefs.

    Daniel, you have resisted other people's opinions (on your involvement here specifically) throughout this thread. It would take a high degree of obtuseness not to recognise that.
    You're mistaken. I don't resist new facts or opinions that run contrary to my beliefs; I welcome them. That, of course, is completely different from accepting them or adopting them as my own. I trust you can understand the crucial distinction.

    Also of note is that implying your "personal experience" and "general knowledge" as being of greater merit than the weight of scientific consensus... well, hubris comes to mind.
    You repeatedly make a claim of scientific consensus, but you refuse to provide a citation, so your argument here is vacuous. Telling. I'll also note your deceptive truncation of my quotation, which actually reads, "my personal experience and my general knowledge that absolute statements of this form rarely hold true." Deceptive quoting is a tell for an absence of a rational argument.

    EDIT: there is nothing I have written that shows that I reject new facts.
    I never wrote that you reject new facts. Yet another straw man fallacy; add it to the ever-growing list.

    Further EDIT: I don't mind being called a hypocrite - but I note that you are not above hypocrisy yourself.
    Yet you have actually demonstrated hypocrisy, and I have not, despite your contorted efforts to show otherwise.

    I reiterate that your mission to make me want to be more popular, effected as it is through a campaign of personal insult, unsupported claims, hypocritical behaviors, and fallacious argumentation, has a vanishingly small probability of success. I'm not sure why you appear to think otherwise.

    --Daniel
    “Every discussion which is made from an egoistic standpoint is corrupted from the start and cannot yield an absolutely sure conclusion. The ego puts its own interest first and twists every argument, word, even fact to suit that interest.”
    ― Paul Brunton, The Notebooks of Paul Brunton

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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fil, 14k Gold Cap

    Please cite the psych evidence that all people fall into this category.

    That I reject it is indicative of my personal experience and my general knowledge that absolute statements of this form rarely hold true. I don't contest that you resist new facts or opinions that run contrary to your beliefs.

    You wrote this. Of particular note is the part where YOU say "I don't contest that you resist new facts..."

    Therefore when you go on in a further post to state (and this is a direct quote):

    I never wrote that you reject new facts. Yet another straw man fallacy; add it to the ever-growing list.
    You are clearly either lying or being selective.


    I have no mission here, other than to point out that there were better ways to have made your initial post. Ways that probably would not have led to all this bickering.


    Daniel, maybe you aren't aware of this. I am incredibly unpopular on this forum. While I do generate quite a bit of content (of varying quality and interest it must be said), and even though I have been rather generous with my resources (often to my own detriment), the overall opinion is that I am a major pain in the ass. No amount of good deeds or kind words on my part can sway that opinion. Minds have been made up. Despite this, I accept that a better approach from me may have led to a better outcome and maybe even a friendship or two. Is it hypocritical of me to suggest to another that there is a better way of presenting oneself? I don't think so. The intention is to inform from personal experience, in the hope that people don't walk the unfortunate path that I did. You see, people really do resist contrary opinions, even you and I, it's a part of human nature. It's also part of that nature that once a person is ostracised, they will remain so. The reason why I am not going to cite references is because this is a casual forum and not a formal debating chamber. It would also take me more time than it is worth with respect to furthering this conversation.

    So I will withdraw for now. Nobody, in my opinion, is above personal criticism. And nobody should seek to avoid honest self-reflection. However, none of this is germane to the thread, so I believe it would be in the interest of the greater good to stop here. You may/may not respond, but I would suggest if you want to continue this conversation, or perhaps would like to establish a foothold for future mutual understanding, you can PM me.


    EDIT: My apologies to FredRydr for taking this thread so far from the original post. Sometimes I can be like a dog with a bone, but that is not any kind of excuse. It's a personal work in progress to improve on this.

  7. #86
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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fil, 14k Gold Cap

    This didn't start well and now it has descended into the battle of the clowns. My goodness, they take themselves so seriously!
    Regards,
    Deb
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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fil, 14k Gold Cap

    Sometimes a pen is just a pen...

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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fil, 14k Gold Cap

    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_of_Clouds View Post

    You wrote this. Of particular note is the part where YOU say "I don't contest that you resist new facts..."

    Therefore when you go on in a further post to state (and this is a direct quote):

    I never wrote that you reject new facts. Yet another straw man fallacy; add it to the ever-growing list.
    You are clearly either lying or being selective.
    You're having difficulty reading with care -- and that includes reading what you yourself have written.

    You've stated that "all people" fall into the category of those who resist new facts. It follows that you know that you, being a person, are not an exception (you claim there are no exceptions), and thus that you resist new facts. This is not complicated; it's simple logic.

    I never wrote that you reject new facts. If you read with care, you would have known that, and you wouldn't have made your fabricated accusation. I suggest you take greater care in the future to avoid this sort of needless digression, caused by your failure to read with care.

    I have no mission here, other than to point out that there were better ways to have made your initial post. Ways that probably would not have led to all this bickering.
    You've specifically made appeals based on attempting to have me want to be more popular, making reference to polls and such. If you're now claiming that your comments were made with no goal, that would strain credulity well past the breaking point. The fact that you continue to engage in (poorly-crafted) argumentation long past your initial posts (which referenced this notion of popularity) further undermines your claim here.

    Daniel, maybe you aren't aware of this. I am incredibly unpopular on this forum.
    This is of no interest to me beyond the hypocrisy that you seem intent on using appeals to popularity while explicitly rejecting popularity as one of your own values.

    While I do generate quite a bit of content (of varying quality and interest it must be said), and even though I have been rather generous with my resources (often to my own detriment), the overall opinion is that I am a major pain in the ass. No amount of good deeds or kind words on my part can sway that opinion. Minds have been made up.
    So what? You seem exceedingly concerned with what certain other people think of you (though you also say you don't try to be more popular, but I should).

    Despite this, I accept that a better approach from me may have led to a better outcome and maybe even a friendship or two. Is it hypocritical of me to suggest to another that there is a better way of presenting oneself? I don't think so.
    Of course it is -- when you state that you don't take your own advice.

    The intention is to inform from personal experience, in the hope that people don't walk the unfortunate path that I did. You see, people really do resist contrary opinions, even you and I, it's a part of human nature. It's also part of that nature that once a person is ostracised, they will remain so.
    Are you ostracized by people for whom you have deep respect? I'm not. This sounds increasingly like an extended projection exercise. It's also a mission statement, so see above.

    The reason why I am not going to cite references is because this is a casual forum and not a formal debating chamber. It would also take me more time than it is worth with respect to furthering this conversation.
    That's a transparent cop-out. If you aren't prepared to provide evidence for a claim, it is reasonably considered to be unsupported. Mere assertions about what scientific authorities have concluded are weightless when this sort of bail-out follows a call for citations.

    So I will withdraw for now. Nobody, in my opinion, is above personal criticism. And nobody should seek to avoid honest self-reflection. However, none of this is germane to the thread, so I believe it would be in the interest of the greater good to stop here. You may/may not respond, but I would suggest if you want to continue this conversation, or perhaps would like to establish a foothold for future mutual understanding, you can PM me.
    I'll pass.

    --Daniel
    “Every discussion which is made from an egoistic standpoint is corrupted from the start and cannot yield an absolutely sure conclusion. The ego puts its own interest first and twists every argument, word, even fact to suit that interest.”
    ― Paul Brunton, The Notebooks of Paul Brunton

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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fil, 14k Gold Cap

    Nice looking pen, Fred. Congrats!
    "What are moon-letters?" asked the hobbit full of excitement. He loved maps, as I have told you before; and he also loved runes and letters, and cunning handwriting, though when he wrote himself it was a bit thin and spidery.

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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fil, 14k Gold Cap

    junglejim, I should know better than to tangle with the kind of person who denies his own quoted verbatim words. It says so much about their intrinsic lack of integrity.

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    Default Re: Sheaffer Crest Masterpiece - Vac-Fil, 14k Gold Cap

    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_of_Clouds View Post
    junglejim, I should know better than to tangle with the kind of person who denies his own quoted verbatim words. It says so much about their intrinsic lack of integrity.
    If you read with care, you'll see that your claim is false. Try it.

    --Daniel
    “Every discussion which is made from an egoistic standpoint is corrupted from the start and cannot yield an absolutely sure conclusion. The ego puts its own interest first and twists every argument, word, even fact to suit that interest.”
    ― Paul Brunton, The Notebooks of Paul Brunton

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