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Thread: Sharing Pen History Knowledge

  1. #41
    Senior Member Voiren's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sharing Pen History Knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by Deb View Post
    Yeah right, that would be convenient with my PC at home and me elsewhere with my Kindle. I'm trying to point out to you that this wouldn't work for me, given my circumstances. I know about Calibre. The image is too small on my Kindle and you suggest opening it on my *phone*?

    Really. Let's stop at that.
    Sorry, I wasn't trying to argue you specifically (or Calamus) in to thinking it was a good idea, just that if such a thing happened, that would be a solution that works for me. I could not usably view an image-rich ebook on my Kindle, but I could on my phone because of the display resolution and ability to zoom in on the detail. So a fountain pen book that was only viewable on Kindle for whatever reason wouldn't work for me either.

  2. #42
    Senior Member welch's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sharing Pen History Knowledge

    It's not just the books. Even more, it is the source documents on which a historian might write.

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  4. #43
    Senior Member Deb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sharing Pen History Knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by Voiren View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Deb View Post
    Yeah right, that would be convenient with my PC at home and me elsewhere with my Kindle. I'm trying to point out to you that this wouldn't work for me, given my circumstances. I know about Calibre. The image is too small on my Kindle and you suggest opening it on my *phone*?

    Really. Let's stop at that.
    Sorry, I wasn't trying to argue you specifically (or Calamus) in to thinking it was a good idea, just that if such a thing happened, that would be a solution that works for me. I could not usably view an image-rich ebook on my Kindle, but I could on my phone because of the display resolution and ability to zoom in on the detail. So a fountain pen book that was only viewable on Kindle for whatever reason wouldn't work for me either.
    It's okay. I was getting a little frustrated trying to explain my position.
    Regards,
    Deb
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  5. #44
    Senior Member Deb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sharing Pen History Knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by welch View Post
    It's not just the books. Even more, it is the source documents on which a historian might write.
    That's true. Most of them are gone. In winding up those companies no-one thought that their would be a bunch of pen geeks anxious to know all about the history of their company and its products. That said, some writers have done remarkably well without those primary documents. Trade avertisements and trade journals together with patents and matters brought before the courts have helped to fill in the picture. That's not to say that what is lost is not deeply regretted
    Regards,
    Deb
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  7. #45
    Senior Member azkid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sharing Pen History Knowledge

    I didn't know what I didn't know. I will look into joining the PCA. I'm not a true collector, nor a historian but I do want to know more about specific models and brands.

    I could tell you all sorts of (well documented) trivia about the production history of my Jeep. That knowledge enriched my ownership of it.

    I will just have to buckle down and look harder for the same kind of info on certain pens

    I'm particularly interested in Esterbrook at the moment and I think I will plunk down the cash for the Hoban book.

    Now I can start buying books instead of pens for awhile

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    Default Re: Sharing Pen History Knowledge

    Contact Paul, at one point he had copies.

    One of the PCAs main goals is preservation of pen related information. Esterbrook catalogs and such are rather scarce. I don’t know of much that has surfaced sine Hobans book.

    Membership in the PCA is $45 for 2020. Join now and you might get a gift from Santa. Membership at pencollectorsofamerica dot com. Tell them Farmboy said you were a good kid.

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    Default Re: Sharing Pen History Knowledge

    Deb, i agree that paper is best. That said, i do have a bunch of Wahl Eversharp catalogs on my computer which are useful to look at once in a while. I also have a bunch of Japanese pen magazines that i bought in kindle format and converted to something or another to view on my phone. Not ideal, but given my constraints on space, it’s the best i can do.

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  12. #48
    Senior Member welch's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sharing Pen History Knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by Deb View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by welch View Post
    It's not just the books. Even more, it is the source documents on which a historian might write.
    That's true. Most of them are gone. In winding up those companies no-one thought that their would be a bunch of pen geeks anxious to know all about the history of their company and its products. That said, some writers have done remarkably well without those primary documents. Trade avertisements and trade journals together with patents and matters brought before the courts have helped to fill in the picture. That's not to say that what is lost is not deeply regretted
    You got it, Deb.

    Long ago, I was a history major, and now that I'm retired, I audit grad courses in social history. It causes teeth-gritting that Carlo Ginzburg can write about the world-view of half-literate North Italian peasants based on records from the Inquisition, but we do not have sales figures from pen companies in the 1920s, or '30s, or 1950's, or production figures, or letters from executives that might explain what the companies thought and planned. How did sales influence design at Parker or Sheaffer, the last two American pen companies? (I am interested in British pen companies, but my family used Parker pens in the '50s and '60s, and I used Sheaffer ink, I know almost nothing about Onoto, for instance).

    "Hobiwan" was able to write about Esterbrook, but, he noted, Esterbrook dumped most of their records when they moved from Camden. Smaller companies than Esterbrook have nearly vanished, except for advertising, as Deb mentions, and the occasional pen that shows up on EBay. Richard Binder lists some of the US "third tier" pens, but what of the others? Who made them? Where were the factories? During the Depression, did some factories make parts that other companies assembled? AAAndrew, of FPN, has been searching out 19th century "steel pens" sold in the US. He is working up from advertising, and from court cases -- dip-pen makers seemed to have sued everyone. Andrew spotted a connection between Birmingham, England, pen makers and the early US industry in the 1840's and 1850's. It is tough going. Meanwhile, libraries collected letters, diaries, notes, and shopping lists of every third-rate politician who got himself elected to Congress or governor. We have lost the records of how people communicated with each other. We know a little by accident, such as the accident that Henry David Thoreau was the "research engineer" for his family, early pencil-makers. We know, for instance, that Henry walked nearly every day, taking notes by pencil, and then wrote his notes into his journal in ink. Where did he get the pen?

    The Shepherds seem to have had access to at least some Parker archives, but what happened to the documents after Newhaven closed? Sheaffer is probably in worse shape, since Fort Madison shut and the company moved to Europe, and now, what little is left, has been swept into Cross, a small company in Rhode Island.

    Young folks -- students! Someone, I hope, will research in the 20th Century, which will be a history of "stick" pens, fountain pens, and pencils. Writing implements will show some of how we lived before so many things went digital.
    Last edited by welch; December 7th, 2019 at 07:36 PM.

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  14. #49
    Senior Member Deb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sharing Pen History Knowledge

    An excellent comment, welch. On some occasions now company records are recognised as of historical significance. For instance Ferranti International, for whom my husband worked, ensured the survival of its records on the dissolutuion of the company but that's still the exception. Biro, who owned Mabie Todd, evidently saw no significance in the post-war records of that company when it ceased to produce fountain pens. Earlier records were destroyed in acts of war. I am unaware of records for Summit, Mentmore or Burnham, to name but a few. Nonetheless, people are working with some success on some of those companies. In some instances there are people still living who worked for pen companies and have good information. Also, there are excellent detectives like the late Jonathan Donahaye, Stephen Hull and Andy Russell on UK pens. I'm sure there are others working on the US brands.

    There is much to regret, especially in the thoughtless destruction of company records but we have much to celebrate in the work of the present decade.
    Regards,
    Deb
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  16. #50
    Senior Member Deb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sharing Pen History Knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by guyy View Post
    Deb, i agree that paper is best. That said, i do have a bunch of Wahl Eversharp catalogs on my computer which are useful to look at once in a while. I also have a bunch of Japanese pen magazines that i bought in kindle format and converted to something or another to view on my phone. Not ideal, but given my constraints on space, it’s the best i can do.
    I was only disagreeing about Kindle use from my own perspective, given my own situation. Yes, of course these documents are valuable and whatever works for each of us is good. For instance I amassed a quantity of Mabie Todd newspaper and magazine ads which have been useful in dating pens and recognising models. That has been superseded now by Stephen Hull's The Swan Pen but they stood me in good stead for many years.
    Regards,
    Deb
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    Default Re: Sharing Pen History Knowledge

    If anyone is looking for advertising, google has a (searchable) digital archive of Life Magazine. You'll find it in google books.

    If you search for Parker 51, for example, you get a few decades of Parker's adverts.

    I'm sure you could look for other brands and turn up similar adverts.

    The archive is here; https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...gbs_navlinks_s

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  19. #52
    Senior Member azkid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sharing Pen History Knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandy View Post
    If anyone is looking for advertising, google has a (searchable) digital archive of Life Magazine. You'll find it in google books.

    If you search for Parker 51, for example, you get a few decades of Parker's adverts.

    I'm sure you could look for other brands and turn up similar adverts.

    The archive is here; https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...gbs_navlinks_s
    That's fantastic. I look forward to combing these for pen ads.

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    Senior Member pengeezer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sharing Pen History Knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by silverlifter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Szanto View Post
    and many like to listen to complete idiots on YouTube for their pen knowledge.
    Example I came across a while back: one of the "reddit designated youtube authorities" proclaiming that iron gall should only be used with caution and your pen should be flushed daily if you did throw caution to the wind.

    We are entering the dork ages.
    The dork ages!....I love it!😅

    John

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    Senior Member Fermata's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sharing Pen History Knowledge

    I have a large PDF file of an exchange of letters between Eisenhower and Kenneth Parker in 1943 together with a letter from Andrew Cunningham to Eisenhower talking about his Parker 51.

    The file is too large to upload.

    Can anyone suggest how this could be archived please? I would not want this record to be left on this old man's computer.
    Last edited by Fermata; January 2nd, 2020 at 12:21 PM.

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    Senior Member FredRydr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sharing Pen History Knowledge

    Goodness! Offer it to the Library of Congress, the Smithsonian or the Eisenhower Presidential Library.

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    Default Re: Sharing Pen History Knowledge

    Do you know how big it is, exactly? If you could manage to put it on Google Drive or email it as an attachment, we could view it. I could mirror it on my personal site, as well.

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    Senior Member Fermata's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sharing Pen History Knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by sezna View Post
    Do you know how big it is, exactly? If you could manage to put it on Google Drive or email it as an attachment, we could view it. I could mirror it on my personal site, as well.
    The size is 2.89mb.

    The Eisenhower Museum are aware of these letters which are to do with the gift of Parker 51s to a handful of people during WW2. The gifting of these pens was at the suggestion of Kenneth Parker and a repeat of a similar offer that had been given to Donald Nelson.

    Interesting read, includes the classic comment from Eisenhower to Kenneth Parker that he hoped that KPs efficient secretary was as good looking as she was effective.
    Last edited by Fermata; January 2nd, 2020 at 02:24 AM.

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    Default Re: Sharing Pen History Knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by Fermata View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sezna View Post
    Do you know how big it is, exactly? If you could manage to put it on Google Drive or email it as an attachment, we could view it. I could mirror it on my personal site, as well.
    The size is 2.89mb.

    The Eisenhower Museum are aware of these letters which are to do with the gift of Parker 51s to a handful of people during WW2. The gifting of these pens was at the suggestion of Kenneth Parker and a repeat of a similar offer that had been given to Donald Nelson.

    Interesting read, includes the classic comment from Eisenhower to Kenneth Parker that he hoped that KPs efficient secretary was as good looking as she was effective.
    I think the PCA (Pen Collectors of America) would be interested in this also. You can contact Jim Mamoulides (PenHero.com) regarding this, I think he's the current president of the organization.
    - Will
    Unique and restored vintage pens: Redeem Pens

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    Senior Member Fermata's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sharing Pen History Knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by penwash View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fermata View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sezna View Post
    Do you know how big it is, exactly? If you could manage to put it on Google Drive or email it as an attachment, we could view it. I could mirror it on my personal site, as well.
    The size is 2.89mb.

    The Eisenhower Museum are aware of these letters which are to do with the gift of Parker 51s to a handful of people during WW2. The gifting of these pens was at the suggestion of Kenneth Parker and a repeat of a similar offer that had been given to Donald Nelson.

    Interesting read, includes the classic comment from Eisenhower to Kenneth Parker that he hoped that KPs efficient secretary was as good looking as she was effective.
    I think the PCA (Pen Collectors of America) would be interested in this also. You can contact Jim Mamoulides (PenHero.com) regarding this, I think he's the current president of the organization.
    Thank you, I will send it to Jim

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    Default Re: Sharing Pen History Knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by FredRydr View Post
    Goodness! Offer it to the Library of Congress, the Smithsonian or the Eisenhower Presidential Library.
    Lazzard?

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