How to Avoid the Murky Waters of Trolldom

[FredRydr]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/12/s...your-mind.html

"...it’s important to stop when you can see that the argument has become toxic, because it will only get worse from there. “Prevent downward spirals. Don’t participate in toxic discussions. Nothing good will come out of it...”.

In depth: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5791909/

[Fermata]

Fury behind the glass, until the glass has been removed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xvz7nboJ0kg

Thank you for posting the two articles.

[azkid]

That article had some good lessons for me, thanks. It's absolutely true about the bad mood. Oof.

Coincidentally, my daughter and I just saw an episode of Brainchild that demonstrates the disinhibition effect. (Such a great show, young or old).

[arrow]

I wish they never started to use the word troll or trolldom, it generally means magic.

[Stands on Feet]

I wish they never started to use the word troll or trolldom, it generally means magic.

Actually, I think it refers to fishing. Trolls aren't magic, but they are mythological.

[Fermata]

I wish they never started to use the word troll or trolldom, it generally means magic.

Actually, I think it refers to fishing. Trolls aren't magic, but they are mythological.

Just looked it up, you can see why the word has been used for internet

The English noun "troll" in the standard sense of ugly dwarf or giant dates to 1610 and comes from the Old Norse word "troll" meaning giant or demon. The word evokes the trolls of Scandinavian folklore and children's tales: antisocial, quarrelsome and slow-witted creatures which make life difficult for travellers.

[arrow]

Actually, I think it refers to fishing. Trolls aren't magic, but they are mythological.

Oh, they are ;-)

In norse folklore Trolls came in many forms, in the stories refering to them they vary a lot. Trolldom litterally means magic in Scandinavian languages. Words like sorcerer and magician can usually be translated with trollmann (trollmann). Jotner, trolls, etc. had magic. In fairytales they turn up in many forms, difficult and more good willed, living along side human kind.

I shouldn't side track too much, it's an important subject and I agree with the inutital poster. I hope we can keep having an open mind reading posts as well as taking care when responding to them. Taking a step back and consciously not add to a difficult situation regardless of who is involved can be what solves it in some cases.

[Dreck]

Thanks for linking the actual research article, Fred!

[Chrissy]

Thanks Fred. An interesting read.

On FPGeeks it's quite easy to avoid trolls. Just switch on the Ignore button. Settings > Edit Ignore List.

[Fermata]

and never be tempted to click View Post just to have a look anyway.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

The important part - and one that nearly everyone overlooks when condemning people of trollish behaviour - is the intent. A troll, by definition, has the intention of being disruptive for the sake of it.

[Jon Szanto]

The important part - and one that nearly everyone overlooks when condemning people of trollish behaviour - is the intent. A troll, by definition, has the intention of being disruptive for the sake of it.

Certainly, to an extent, but the history of online discussion groups is littered with enormous and bloated threads full of unending bickering from multiple parties, each of which thinks they are engaging with only the best of intentions. That they continue, on and on and on, shows a lack of insight into the nature of disengagement.

It's the old "I can't come to bed, there is someone wrong on the Internet" concept. Let's just say there are meta- or proto-trollish behaviors that any one of us can fall into, as well.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

People will sometimes argue their side of a discussion with varying degrees of belligerance and self-certitude, but that is not at all the same as what a troll does - in terms of intention.

In my opinion, there is a very real danger that the term "troll" will be invoked at some point in any heated discussion; perhaps as a kind of amendment to Godwin's Law.

[Jon Szanto]

My point is that the concept of intention is fairly pointless if people continue to beat a dead horse ad nauseum, completely overlooking the pointless aspects of unchecked repetition and bottom-line ineffectiveness. The property of disengagement is so important in many ways, and one of the most important is simply knowing when to let something drop when you realize nothing will come of continuing. When confronted with threads that scroll on, page after page and no progress is to be had, it becomes rather unimportant if a troll is involved.

But, yes, conflating that with trolldom won't help, either. I was merely speaking to some of the other points in the article. And, with that, I'll bow out.

[Fermata]

My point is that the concept of intention is fairly pointless if people continue to beat a dead horse ad nauseum, completely overlooking the pointless aspects of unchecked repetition and bottom-line ineffectiveness. The property of disengagement is so important in many ways, and one of the most important is simply knowing when to let something drop when you realize nothing will come of continuing. When confronted with threads that scroll on, page after page and no progress is to be had, it becomes rather unimportant if a troll is involved.

But, yes, conflating that with trolldom won't help, either. I was merely speaking to some of the other points in the article. And, with that, I'll bow out.

Good point.

I have seen people openly admit that they start an argument or nitpick on the tiniest detail just because they have time on their hands, they want some banter without giving any consideration to the effect on others or even if there is any point to their comments. Their intention, well I dont really know, perhaps to pass some time or to have something else to respond to in an hour or so,

Intention is a very difficult area to understand if you dont have the same mind set as the person doing the posting. Interpretation is often crosswired when you only have a few lines to form an opinion, it is easy to make mistakes.

[Detman101]

I have seen people openly admit that they start an argument or nitpick on the tiniest detail just because they have time on their hands, they want some banter without giving any consideration to the effect on others or even if there is any point to their comments. Their intention, well I don't really know, perhaps to pass some time or to have something else to respond to in an hour or so...

I see you have met my wife.

[Deb]

I don't think that what happened here recently and by the same person several times before is really an example of trolling in the usual sense. It is more an unwillingness to allow the other person the last word and an absolute conviction that he is right. Of course he may be right - probably is, given the quality of his research but the unwillingness to allow even the slightest compromise is unpleasant and tiresome. There may be some element of trolling in that he enjoys the interminable and relentless arguing - I can only assume he must do, otherwise why persist? Considering that they do not seem to hold each other in high regard, the style of debate ( if it can be honoured in that way!) is similar to that employed by David Isaacson, equally arrogant and irritating.

As has been said above, don't be drawn in.

[Chrissy]

I don't think that what happened here recently and by the same person several times before is really an example of trolling in the usual sense. It is more an unwillingness to allow the other person the last word and an absolute conviction that he is right. Of course he may be right - probably is, given the quality of his research but the unwillingness to allow even the slightest compromise is unpleasant and tiresome. There may be some element of trolling in that he enjoys the interminable and relentless arguing - I can only assume he must do, otherwise why persist? Considering that they do not seem to hold each other in high regard, the style of debate ( if it can be honoured in that way!) is similar to that employed by David Isaacson, equally arrogant and irritating.

As has been said above, don't be drawn in.

Indeed: Don't feed the troll

[FredRydr]

The full title of the article is: How to Argue on the Internet Without Losing Your Mind. Avoid the murky waters of trolldom. It was too long for the subject line, so I chose the more catchy second phrase rather than the drier but more apropos first phrase for the subject line. The New York Times article that summarizes the National Institute of Health study addresses lack of empathy towards others when debating online, not just intentional trolling in the classic sense (as some have discussed above). In any event, the term "trolling behavior" has evolved to encompass bad online behavior in general.

I recommend reading the NIH manuscript to understand how such behavior foments similar behavior in others, and can indicate broader mental health problems.

The big takeaway lesson is: stop participating when the posts go toxic.

[Deb]

can indicate broader mental health problems.

Precisely so!