Hi! So I am hoping to be able to pick up a used possibly MB 149 at an upcoming pen show, and I was wondering what decent price for one?
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Hi! So I am hoping to be able to pick up a used possibly MB 149 at an upcoming pen show, and I was wondering what decent price for one?
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450 seem to be in the ball park for a good used 149.
Good luck.
penmainiac (January 6th, 2020)
Do be careful about 149s that are priced a little too low, though.
penmainiac (January 7th, 2020)
Weren't you trying to buy one a year ago when you joined FPG? They haven't changed much in price since then.
They will be almost exactly the same price at this years pen shows as they were at last years pen shows.
Last edited by Chrissy; January 7th, 2020 at 01:24 AM.
Regards, Chrissy | My Review Blog: inkyfountainpens
penmainiac (January 7th, 2020)
Welcome back, maniac! Hope it's been an enjoyable year. Good luck with your search for the perfect 149. Chrissy's advice is always right on target. Is your hunt going to be the LA Show, as you mentioned last yr? How did you do on your first semester exams?
penmainiac (January 8th, 2020)
I would also say it would depend on the age/era of the 149. Since the price above would sound like a common ballpark for a modern (early/mid 90s onward) 149. But might be too low for something from the 1980s or before, depending on their nib and nib qualities (ie: older semi-flex 14K for example).
One of the big tells, is that 149 (and likewise the 146) are only available as piston fillers. If you see a 149 where the barrel removal is required to fill it, then it's either mislabeled as a 149, or is a fake. They may try to call a standard converter a piston, but Montblanc didn't make the 149 as a c/c pen.
And to date, I don't think anyone has ever seen a 149 fake, that also copied the piston mechanism (less of a profit margin to be had for that, with the bargain prices they put on them).
I did some more research on Fountainpennetork, and it seems like $450 was the average price 5 years ago, could they have gone up?
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Will you be at the LA pen show?
penmainiac (January 30th, 2020)
Piston fillers aren't expensive to make - after all a Wing Sung 698 is only $20 from a Western seller and functionally speaking, there isn't a lot of difference between it and a 149. I've never heard of a piston filling fake, but I certainly wouldn't say one is impossible.
To the OP
1. Look for the word "pix" under the clip
2. Look for a serial number on the cap band
3. Hold the pen up against a bright light: where the light comes through it should reveal that the plastic (aka "precious resin" aka "it breaks sooo easily!") is a very dark red, not a neutral black.
...I've never heard of any fake getting all these details right. That said, the "pix" imprint and serial number were only introduced in the 90s, so if you're interested in older pens, ignore this.
They're not... but I've never seen one to date, and I doubt they would bother if they can go even cheaper on a c/c pen and maximize profit from their scams. (and I'm sure I could note some differences from a 698 and a modern 149, aside from the fact that the modern 149 has brass pistons)
Well sure there are differences. For example, the brass you mention + the helical rod on the Wing Sung looks way sturdier than the one on a lot of MBs.
Functionally, they do the same job and work the same way.
When you look at the engineering that goes into some Chinese fakes and the staggering price an MB sells for, the cost of a brass cylinder is nothing. It's hard to tell a fake Chinese Porsche from the real thing without taking it apart: a pen costing a few dollars to make and selling for hundreds isn't really an engineering challenge.
My guess is that MB pens don't have enough prestige inside China to be worth serious effort creating good fakes - because contrary to what Westerners assume, that's the market that high quality fakes are made for. Looking at recent high-end Chinese pens they seem to find the idea of paying high prices for black plastic a little silly. Fancier versions of the Duofold seem to be their idea of a prestige pen. eg
..There's also a cultural issue in that the 149 isn't a great design for very precise writing - it's more or less the opposite of a calligraphy pen. Chinese script is a very high art and flourishing a thick and heavy pen might have very negative connotations.
Anyway, I certainly wouldn't buy ANY modern Montblanc without looking for those three signs of a genuine pen - it's not hard to hold a pen up to the light or look under the clip.
(https://www.highsnobiety.com/p/chine...nterfeit-cars/)
Last edited by ilikenails; April 26th, 2020 at 03:36 AM.
To ilikenails: you've mentioned easily broken MBs in another post. Could you describe how your M B, or another you've seen, got broken?
gary
The funniest case I've seen was the MB that broken literally through being used. It was a twist retract bp. The brittle plastic inevitably broken through the torque the twist mechanism inflicted. The only time I remember mentioning this here was in this thread, where someone immediately came along and said this had happened to him:
https://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread...used-every-day
What you say about the wrist retract ballpoints is true. My first one broke at the barrel open end on its last retract, after about ten years use.
You can easily confirm MB's poor reputation in this regard with a google search like
https://www.google.com/search?client...h1QMICw&uact=5
To be honest, this is just inevitable. Plastic relies on a certain amount of flex to handle impact. If you add long glass fibres for shine, they reduce flexibility - you now have a brittle material. Parker 51s were made out of the same resin but without the glass and they were the opposite - notoriously tough.
But it's cheap and shiny and doesn't have a long cure time, and you can injection mould it instead of shaping on it on a lathe, which makes production even cheaper again. It's a great material if you're selling to people who don't know what they're buying - which to be honest is likely to be almost anyone willing to be swallow the idea that injection moulded plastic is "precious". MB make pens for people who buy branded luxury goods: it's not a knowledgeable market.
Interesting discussion here - it covers both the material's weakness and a great way to check if a pen is genuine:
http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/fo...recious-resin/
I took an opportunity to do my Macgyver-ness. a friend had shattered older 1980s resin barrel. I had several test sample of plastics, metals, glass I had lying in my garage shelves I do keep them to compare and test their tolerances. ( long story )
so I wrapped a towel in bench vice grip, intentionally bent the barrel, it did not show white/clouding creases you would expect to see in plastics . rather it snapped after a slight nudge, about 20 or so pounds of pressure. So we established something, it IS brittle. upon close look the fresh sheared pieces showed many tiny shivers, It resembles to obsidian glass shards. So I may suspect they added silica into resin. to retain their shininess, sharp tone, and scratch resistant.
under a strong light it gleamed red-black. but I also put it under infrared light. the pictures revels it is completely invisible. So I had concluded that Silica and resin that's so pure that it is invisible under an infrared light.
So rule of thumb, If you are trying to detect fake Mb's put it under infrared to confirm it is completely invisible and only piston, nib housing and the nib is showing. that's one of the extreme ways to confirm genuineness.
other than sticking magnet to the nib and risking scratching ( tissue towel wrapped magnet is logical) and checking threading, and such. Checking the obvious German quality of the gold nib and I simply stick whole pen it under infrared light and peek.
Ive seen many counterfeits fail the infrared light. they show very subtle silhouettes.
..I should emphasize, again, that the problem is NOT plastic in general: the materials other companies use are generally fine. It's the combination of plastic plus glass fibres to make a cheap, injection mouldable material that's shiny.
Also, if you're willing to buy a pen that breaks more easily than normal, that's fine: other factors count too. And breaking more easily than normal doesn't mean that your pen is going to break - if you don't drop it, it should be fine. Just remember that (same link) this is typical -
Precious resin is what Montblanc calls their injection molded plastic. Personally it's not all that break resistant as I can testify to
After dropping a 149 on the floor and seeing the cap easily crack. Precious in my opinion would be an early 149 made of machined celluloid plastic rather than the cheap injection molded stuff they use now. I am sure it's not cheapest either
...In terms of actual performance, a $25 Pilot Kakuno is going to write as well (if you like fine nibs) and be a lot tougher.
BUT to be completely fair, I have heard that MB are very reasonable about replacing pen bodies at a relatively low cost, even out of warranty. (Although I don't know if this applies if you bought used, etc.)
Otoh again, while I like the looks of the MB more than Pelikan and the feel of the section a lot more, I hate the design from the maintenance pov. It seems like the only sane thing to do is to send that back to MB and pay to have it done every few years. Pelikan(?) TWSBI and Wing Sung all make their piston fillers user serviceable - in fact even a Pilot 823 vac is something you can quite easily take apart to lube the filling system (or so I've been told - a TWSBI wrench is supposed to be perfect for the job.) I've been told that a heavily used MB piston filler should probably get a service every 4 years for this reason - it's probably also a good idea to keep to a very mainstream brand of ink with a consistent formulation. (Cough... so maybe not Noodlers) And ideally maybe not to change inks too much even inside a brand - the more you clean out, the sooner you'll need a service. (Obviously, I've never been impressed with an MB enough to keep one for 4 years, especially as a main user. Although I'd consider it if I found a good pre-Richmont Group 146.)
Although for brave people, I just found this tool:
http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/fo...sterstuck-149/
Last edited by ilikenails; April 26th, 2020 at 06:57 AM.
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