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Thread: Fair price for a MB149

  1. #21
    Senior Member azkid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fair price for a MB149

    FWIW, I've looked at a lot of pics of slim MB school pens (221 and similar) and noticed several with cracks around the cap clip. One of the pens I bought had this issue.

    In addition, shortly after getting it, the hood broke at the nib end. The cracks occurred at stress points on each side of the nib.

    Given the thin material in this area and the design of the hood of this particular style/model which lacks structure at the top to support the top of the nib/section, I suspect the break was due to excessive pressure applied at some point in its lifetime.

    I found a new hood for it and that part has had no issues thus far. My other 221 has held up ok so far.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Fair price for a MB149

    Thanks for the information. Many complaints about the twist BPs. The references to the 221

    In the threads linked above I saw one report of a 149 breaking when dropped. Can't think of many items that are immune to breakage. Anecdotally, I've dropped both a 149 and a 146 on concrete without breaking. Not recommended practice. My 149 has seen 20+ years of service with just an occasional flush.

    My experience with the 149's I've owned come closest to jar's post "...I would expect a Montblanc fountain pen to last at least a century with just basic care."

    No product is perfect, and I'm not about to argue that MSRP is a reasonable or bargain for a 1XX MB. However, I don't think that someone buying a 146 or a 149 is in imminent danger of it breaking in normal usage.

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  4. #23
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    Default Re: Fair price for a MB149

    Quote Originally Posted by kazoolaw View Post
    Thanks for the information. Many complaints about the twist BPs. The references to the 221

    In the threads linked above I saw one report of a 149 breaking when dropped. Can't think of many items that are immune to breakage. .
    You didn't notice the pen repairer who kept literally dozens of broken MBs in a jar on his worktop as a warning to customers not to but the modern version? Ok...

    Or the detail description of the lab test I posted showing, beyond all doubt, that the material is exceptionally brittle? Ok...

    Or the first random search I did gave this

    https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/...fix-it.279163/

    I have a mont blanc rollerball that is broken. The body has cracked where you screw in the tip...not sure how to describe it...Anyone know where I can send it to at least see if there is anything that can be done for it. Seems like a 200 dollar pen wouldnt crack when you put in a new, or take out an old refill.

    I have a Meisterstuck fountain pen I bought years ago. A couple of years later, I noticed a crack in the barrel.

    Actually Mont Blanc has a reputation of cracking easily. Their "Precious Resin" tends to be brittle

    last time i asked, the service charge was $100 to replace that crappy plastic.




    And the next got this

    http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/fo...ries-welcomed/

    (That thread also VERY useful suggestions on restorers if you need one.)

    It's honestly almost shocking to me that people here don't know this. It's widely accepted that "precious resin" MBs are exceptionally brittle even on MB forums elsewhere. It's not even in the realm of opinion or anecdotal evidence: once again, FREAKING LAB TESTS! This is a more than usually brittle material.

    This isn't me being a killjoy, it's just something you have to understand. Treat one of these pens a little more carefully, maybe carry it a pen kimono, do NOT push the clip to the limits - clips are often where fractures start. And, very relevantly to this thread, look at a used pen much more carefully for signs of surface wear than you would other pens. A deep scratch in a lot of pens will just be cosmetic, but in an MB it may well be start of a slow fracture.
    Last edited by ilikenails; April 27th, 2020 at 07:11 AM.

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    Default Re: Fair price for a MB149

    ilikenails,

    Is it that you think people don't read what you post? Did I miss you saying that the MB barrel was from a 149?

    I looked at the threads you posted: don't see a reference to a 149 or 146. Please let me know if I missed references to those two models. Yes, I saw the "fat" pen reference.

    Did you recognize who asked the question, and the sarcasm in the response, about the lab test?

    Quote Originally Posted by kazoolaw View Post
    Q: Do you have anything, even anecdotally, regarding "explosions" of MB pens, specifically MBs 146s or 149s? Please include in your response the sample size of those two models.

    A: The reference is to the 2003 in-depth study of Montblanc Meisterstuck caps and barrels, based on a hypothesis that the black (not bordeaux) resin is prone to sudden fulmination if dropped from a height of 1.5 meters or more. 1,874 146es and a control population of 947 Safaris were subjected to strict laboratory tests that produced sufficient data to prove the hypothesis. At ambient temperature, empty Montblancs have a 93% likelihood of exploding if dropped 1.5 meters onto a hard surface compared to less than 1% for the empty Safaris. Only two injuries were suffered by lab assistants in the study, and Lamy covered the expense of their treatment. Montblanc refused to have anything to do with it.

    I trust this satisfies your demand for evidence. Alas, the study never made it onto the internet, but I see no reason why you cannot take my word for it."


    There is a MB model with a known and documented issue with cap cracks, none of which you've referenced, and which is neither a 149 or 146.

    To prove a MB pen-demic you'll need more proof.









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    Default Re: Fair price for a MB149

    Did I miss you saying that the MB barrel was from a 149?

    MB use the same plastic in all their standard pens. It isn't going to magically turn into armour plate because the tube it's being moulded into has a different serial number. It's fine if you like MB branding enough to pay their prices, but you shouldn't try to cover up objective fact.

    Did you recognize who asked the question, and the sarcasm in the response, about the lab test?

    I prefer not to comment on badly written humour. In this case, it's very badly written. As well as being unfunny, you don't need a population sample for material tests like that - they're very simple and extremely robust. To dumb this down to a level you can hopefully understand, if I want to compare the weight of a 149 and a Prera, I can reasonably just weigh one of each pen, not several hundred. Population sampling is for things like medical tests where you should expect a large number of confounding factors and you're often trying to measure a small effect.

    Now, it's *possible* that the test might have hit on an unusually weak MB - but it's not the smart way to bet. Especially given all the other evidence and basic materials science: you simply can't do what MB have done without expecting the resulting material to be much more brittle than it was before the fibres were added.
    Last edited by ilikenails; April 27th, 2020 at 10:55 AM.

  8. #26
    Senior Member carlos.q's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fair price for a MB149

    I suppose we have all noticed that the OP bought his 149...

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  10. #27
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    Default Re: Fair price for a MB149

    Quote Originally Posted by ilikenails View Post
    Did I miss you saying that the MB barrel was from a 149?

    MB use the same plastic in all their standard pens. It isn't going to magically turn into armour plate because the tube it's being moulded into has a different serial number. It's fine if you like MB branding enough to pay their prices, but you shouldn't try to cover up objective fact.

    No, didn't think I had. Do I think you have ignored references to how thin the components are in the size of the models referenced? I do. Do you concede that the relative thickness of a material may be a factor in how resistant it is to breaking? Attempting to change the subject to the

    Did you recognize who asked the question, and the sarcasm in the response, about the lab test?

    I prefer not to comment on badly written humour. In this case, it's very badly written. As well as being unfunny, you don't need a population sample for material tests like that - they're very simple and extremely robust. To dumb this down to a level you can hopefully understand, if I want to compare the weight of a 149 and a Prera, I can reasonably just weigh one of each pen, not several hundred. Population sampling is for things like medical tests where you should expect a large number of confounding factors and you're often trying to measure a small effect.

    You don't comment, yet you're willing to pass the "test" as being genuine? You would cite to a "test" written in jest as proof? Is that the best you can do? Or did you think that no one would actually bother to check your citations?


    Now, it's *possible* that the test might have hit on an unusually weak MB - but it's not the smart way to bet. Especially given all the other evidence and basic materials science: you simply can't do what MB have done without expecting the resulting material to be much more brittle than it was before the fibres were added.
    What test? The one that was written in jest, in what you called 'badly written humour?' The one that wasn't really a test?

    You are welcome to the last word in this thread. I wish you luck in locating an "objective fact." Thus far both have eluded you.




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  12. #28
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    Default Re: Fair price for a MB149

    Quote Originally Posted by penmainiac View Post
    Hi! So I am hoping to be able to pick up a used possibly MB 149 at an upcoming pen show, and I was wondering what decent price for one?

    Good luck with your purchase.

  13. #29
    Senior Member FredRydr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fair price for a MB149

    Quote Originally Posted by kazoolaw View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by penmainiac View Post
    Hi! So I am hoping to be able to pick up a used possibly MB 149 at an upcoming pen show, and I was wondering what decent price for one?
    Good luck with your purchase.
    Um...the young man was hot to trot for a 149 when he started this thread, he was advised to wait and compare them at a pen show, he bought one on February 9th at the LA show for cheap, turned out he went ahead on his own with no idea what he was doing, the pen had issues and problems, and he was trying to trade it for a Visconti four days later. This thread should be allowed to fade, fade away....
    Last edited by FredRydr; April 27th, 2020 at 12:31 PM.

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    Default Re: Fair price for a MB149

    Still appreciate your test report. Not bad humor at all.

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  17. #31
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    Default Re: Fair price for a MB149

    [QUOTE=ilikenails;290164]
    Quote Originally Posted by kazoolaw View Post
    Thanks for the information. Many complaints about the twist BPs.

    <snip>

    And the next got this

    http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/fo...ries-welcomed/

    (That thread also VERY useful suggestions on restorers if you need one.)

    It's honestly almost shocking to me that people here don't know this. It's widely accepted that "precious resin" MBs are exceptionally brittle even on MB forums elsewhere. It's not even in the realm of opinion or anecdotal evidence: once again, FREAKING LAB TESTS! This is a more than usually brittle material.
    I read through this thread in FPN. It is about the Montblanc "Generation", a fountain pen that Ron Zorn says, in the thread, is NOT made with the same "resin" that Montblanc uses in the Meisterstuck. In the thread, Ron points to a design flaw in the Generation that puts too much pressure at a point just up from the nib and where the material is too thin.

    All this says nothing about Montblanc in general.
    Last edited by welch; April 29th, 2020 at 11:21 AM.

  18. #32
    Senior Member guyy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fair price for a MB149

    Indeed. The Generation and other similarly designed pens transfer stress from the nib to the shell’s plastic at that corner. I have an old Sailor that is cracking at the same spot. It’s just a bad design.

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