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Thread: Pilot capless 1960s not holding out

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    Default Pilot capless 1960s not holding out

    Well it is kinda holding out on me..

    I purchased an early Pilot capless (as far as I can tell it is a 1965 capless) as a parts pen and am trying to re-construct it, I basically had the shell.

    I managed to track down the nib section and a bulb type converter, which now I have worked out how it fits, sits in the pen
    and when I push the rear section cap down, pushes the nib out through the flap door.

    The nib assembly pushes against a spring inside the front of the pen body and retracts via that spring, but does not hold in the
    depressed position so that the nib would be exposed.

    So I am missing part of the mechanism somewhere.

    The only youtube I could find was in russian, but did show, what looks like a plastic collar around the ink view area (it could just be a protection part)

    But I have no idea how the "click" hold works on these pens, I am assuming it has a clutch of some sort in the front part of the pen and that the rear section is basically a cover (this differs from the 1964 pens I have seen and the later pens where the click hold/release clutch is in a knob at the end similar to a ballpoint)

    Does anyone have any experience with these or a diagram of how the earlier pens worked.

    I must admit compared to the later pens this one seems flimsy, so may be a 1970s cheaper version but the only reference I have seen was indicated as 1965. Please see pictures attached with two internal shots of the front body where the nib assembly fits, I have placed an arrow to show the orientation slot and this turns into a bayonet fitting to hold the nib assembly inplace, in the second internal picture the spring below can be seen.

    in hopes
    Jeremy
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Default Re: Pilot capless 1960s not holding out

    Well I think I have the model number CS-200RW-SHORT, and after some experimentation it could be that clip or washer on the nib section that I am missing
    I tried it with a washer cut from an empty cartridge (not totally successful but it did seem to hold or jam the nib in position), if anyone knows where to get one? or knows how to make one please.

    Now the other thing I have to tackle is the ink supply, it did not have a double cartridge or converter, there are some write ups, one suggesting a W-converter or a
    con-20 converter but guess what, they are no longer in production, so I may have to make my own as a con-40 does not appear to fit. Again any suggestions as to doner cartridges (one appears to be a mont blanc)

    J

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    Default Re: Pilot capless 1960s not holding out

    Hi Jem14f (Jerry),

    The first image that you posted shows the likely issue. The nib assembly that you show is missing a piece. In that narrow notch, in the transparent area, there should be a tapered, split, nylon collar. It is something that you could probably fabricate easier than you could find, but there may a stash of them somewhere. I suppose that there could be damage within the barrel, but your internal spring is still functioning, so I think that the missing "collar" is likely all that you need.

    These early models are pretty cool.

    Bob

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    Default Re: Pilot capless 1960s not holding out

    Hi Jerry,

    I think that I was pondering my response to your first post as you posted your second. I will have to see if I can dig mine up when I get home, to get some dimensional specs. It truly is something that could be made, if it can't be found. As to the filling, mine is a NOS pen, with original squeeze converter. Not a modern pen guy, so no clue as to what else might fit.

    Bob

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    Default Re: Pilot capless 1960s not holding out

    Bob
    thank you for the reply, as you see I spent some time playing with ideas and tried making a basic collar (managed to jam the pen at one point) but got the feeling that that was the part I was missing, I am guessing I just need to get the thickness about right and then to taper the edges to allow the nib section to lock and release.

    The filling part I am going to have to fabricate as the double cartridge is no where to be found (even empty) and the converter ideas of the past e.g. a W-Converter and possibly a con-20 bulb filler are now just as difficult to find (or the cost is more than the pen :-( ) but I think if I can find a cartridge of the diameter I can adjust it to fit (even if this means syringe filling the cartridge).

    I has been interesting tracking down the model (CS-200RW-SHORT) and finding that Pilot thought of this as being a school pen, I am really surprised that it was not a much more abundant pen, but I guess the ball point was starting to become king during that era, for school general use in the US and UK, strangely not so much in asia though where fountain pens retained their prominence.

    It would be very good of you to measure the nylon clip in your pen if you would, and I can try to replicate that.

    J

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    Default Re: Pilot capless 1960s not holding out

    Hi Jerry,

    I thought about it, and it would be pretty easy for me to just make the part and test for function in my pen. The part should fit in a First Class envelope, and make its way to the UK with ease. PM me if you like. I'll trade you for a follow-up post on the installed part in what should be a functioning pen.

    I suspected that this was a lower-priced student model, as it has the alloy nib, and thin-walled aluminum body. Maybe Japanese students of the 1960s were pretty gentle with their possessions, but these pens are hardly robust and must have had a pretty high attrition rate.

    Take care, Bob

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    Default Re: Pilot capless 1960s not holding out

    Quote Originally Posted by Seattleite View Post
    Hi Jerry,

    I thought about it, and it would be pretty easy for me to just make the part and test for function in my pen. The part should fit in a First Class envelope, and make its way to the UK with ease. PM me if you like. I'll trade you for a follow-up post on the installed part in what should be a functioning pen.

    I suspected that this was a lower-priced student model, as it has the alloy nib, and thin-walled aluminum body. Maybe Japanese students of the 1960s were pretty gentle with their possessions, but these pens are hardly robust and must have had a pretty high attrition rate.

    Take care, Bob
    What an excellent and generous offer. I'm looking forward to seeing what happens with this pen.....
    Regards, Chrissy | My Blog: inkyfountainpens

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    Default Re: Pilot capless 1960s not holding out

    I thought so too!, I have sent Bob a PM with my details and await with anticipation for the part (thank you again Bob for the offer)
    it appears an interesting and simple way of operating the pen.

    I am surprised other manufacturers did not leap on the idea, as far as I know only Pilot and a company TWSBI have gone down the
    retracting fountain pen route. I have yet to buy a TWSBI for comparison, are there any other makes out there? do they live up to the Pilot?

    Jem

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    Default Re: Pilot capless 1960s not holding out

    There's a Lamy Dialog 3 in 3 different colours
    Regards, Chrissy | My Blog: inkyfountainpens

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    Default Re: Pilot capless 1960s not holding out

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrissy View Post
    There's a Lamy Dialog 3 in 3 different colours

    Gulp!!
    My list

    No.1 Wow nice looking pens
    No2. Wow the prices! These look a fairly serious investment.
    No3. Buy oil for wallet hinges

    I think I will have to compile a bit of a list of retractables, Mmm could this be how collections start?!

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    Default Re: Pilot capless 1960s not holding out

    My personal favourite is the white one.

    Ooops correction there are 4 colours: palladium, piano white, piano black and matt black
    Last edited by Chrissy; January 17th, 2020 at 03:50 PM.
    Regards, Chrissy | My Blog: inkyfountainpens

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    Default Re: Pilot capless 1960s not holding out

    Have a look at the Hérmès capless. Cannot remember the model name but the looks and price will bring a tear to the eye!

    On the filling system Sailor cartridges are an option on some but not all vintage Pilot capless (for some reason your photos are not visible to me) Google Bruno Taut’s blog for more information.

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    Default Re: Pilot capless 1960s not holding out

    Quote Originally Posted by da vinci View Post
    Have a look at the Hérmès capless. Cannot remember the model name but the looks and price will bring a tear to the eye!

    On the filling system Sailor cartridges are an option on some but not all vintage Pilot capless (for some reason your photos are not visible to me) Google Bruno Taut’s blog for more information.
    Hermès Nautilus pen designed by Marc Newson and made by Pilot.
    Regards, Chrissy | My Blog: inkyfountainpens

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    Default Re: Pilot capless 1960s not holding out

    Hermès Nautilus, interesting body designs, but at around £1250 could you actually design and manufacture your own!
    then just put the Pilot internals in it... anyone got a metal lathe and file :-) I am sure its is not that easy ..
    but I do like the designs (and the internals we know work), I will be looking at online auction sites just incase one comes up.

    Jem

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    Cool Re: Pilot capless 1960s not holding out

    Robert
    I have the Pilot clutch ring that you sent, thank you, I did not realise you were over the pond.
    I fitted this today, and my pen now works. Having now seen the part I am going to try to measure it up (cad dwg)
    and will see if I cam make some as spares.

    I must say this idea to operate the click on/off appears so simple, but I guess it had to be for a student pen.

    Once again thank you very much Robert for making and sending me this part.

    I have added 4 more pictures showing the Pilot clutch ring, prior to fitting and post fitting.

    If I have any luck creating a cad dwg, I will post this later for future ref. of anyone looking to make one.

    Best Regards
    Jeremy
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Default Re: Pilot capless 1960s not holding out

    Good job well done. Your nib looks like it needs a little attention. The tines should surely be closer together at the tips than they currently are.
    Regards, Chrissy | My Blog: inkyfountainpens

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    Default Re: Pilot capless 1960s not holding out

    Chrissy, yes I agree, I am having to go through every part of the pen, I had the shell, then managed to locate
    the nib section (as you have seen, this needs work), the next thing I am going to have to find is a "double" cartridge,
    or make an one up as an ink store (I think there have been a few postingson how to do this).

    Now I have the major problem of holding the nib section in/out sorted (Thanks Bob). I will now start on the other bits.

    Gosh I hope its a good writer at the end of it :-)

    Jeremy

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    Default Re: Pilot capless 1960s not holding out

    Good job Jeremy!

    I must say, the Mail service of our two nations is impressive. Took about a week, and only cost $1.15 US to post. Glad it arrived safe and sound, and solves the issue.

    You know, with that secure-fitting filler/cartridge cover, I'd be tempted to just fabricate a sac/coupler arrangement and make a simple bulb filler, until you find the correct unit.

    Good show, Bob

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    Default Re: Pilot capless 1960s not holding out

    If you can chase down a CON-20, this may be the way to go: http://www.stutler.cc/pens/converters/index.html

    if you want dimensions of the double-spare cartridge mouth I can take measurements from one of mine. I have a bunch of double spares pens and re-use my small stash of empty cartridges by syringe filling them from bottle ink. CON-W converters also come up for sale occasionally, but to be honest I prefer the refilled cartridges, because you can see the remaining ink level.
    David-

    So many restoration projects...

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    Default Re: Pilot capless 1960s not holding out

    Quote Originally Posted by awa54 View Post
    If you can chase down a CON-20, this may be the way to go: http://www.stutler.cc/pens/converters/index.html

    if you want dimensions of the double-spare cartridge mouth I can take measurements from one of mine. I have a bunch of double spares pens and re-use my small stash of empty cartridges by syringe filling them from bottle ink. CON-W converters also come up for sale occasionally, but to be honest I prefer the refilled cartridges, because you can see the remaining ink level.
    That's a very good resource page you linked to. I never saw it before. Thanks.
    Regards, Chrissy | My Blog: inkyfountainpens

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