Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: Rosemary

  1. #1
    Senior Member Deb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Highlands of Scotland
    Posts
    1,556
    Thanks
    932
    Thanked 1,487 Times in 721 Posts
    Rep Power
    9

    Default Rosemary



    This is a Rosemary pen full name "Rosemary, That's For Remembrance" which is a quote from Hamlet when Ophelia is recounting the symbolism of the flowers as she prepares to end her young life.



    Almost everything about this pen is a mystery. Rosemary and National Security were made on behalf of British Carbon Papers, a company about which little is known. Several manufacturers may have been involved in the making of these pens. Conway Stewart and Valentine have been suggested. More certain are Langs of Liverpool and Henry Stark, Son and Hamilton.



    This clipless pen measures 12.8 cm capped and is probably a ladies' purse pen. Note the threading on the base of the barrel to enable secure posting. It has been said that the Rosemary was issued in memory of the fallen in World War I. Though there is no evidence for this it seems likely. And National Security? How many pens are named after an abstract concept?
    Regards,
    Deb
    My Blog
    My Pen Sales

  2. The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to Deb For This Useful Post:

    amk (January 7th, 2020), Chrissy (January 8th, 2020), Dreck (January 7th, 2020), FredRydr (January 7th, 2020), gbryal (January 7th, 2020), Jon Szanto (January 7th, 2020), Lady Onogaro (January 9th, 2020), penwash (January 7th, 2020), popcod (January 12th, 2020), Robert (January 7th, 2020)

  3. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Norwich UK
    Posts
    856
    Thanks
    1,627
    Thanked 589 Times in 329 Posts
    Rep Power
    9

    Default Re: Rosemary

    What a lovely pen! I particularly like that thick and completely plain gold ring. Gorgeous material, too.

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to amk For This Useful Post:

    Deb (January 7th, 2020)

  5. #3
    Senior Member Deb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Highlands of Scotland
    Posts
    1,556
    Thanks
    932
    Thanked 1,487 Times in 721 Posts
    Rep Power
    9

    Default Re: Rosemary

    The ring is 18carat rolled gold, quite a rich gold colour that blends in nicely with the mottled hard rubber. This is a 1920s pen and it has been used quite a bit - the imprint is quite faded, but the red and black have retained the strength of their original colour. I didn't do anything to improve it, I just cleaned it and polished it lightly. Good quality material.
    Regards,
    Deb
    My Blog
    My Pen Sales

  6. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Dallas, as in the 80's TV Series
    Posts
    2,548
    Thanks
    1,724
    Thanked 3,210 Times in 1,159 Posts
    Rep Power
    7

    Default Re: Rosemary

    Oooh! What an elegant pen.

    Love the hard-rubber, style, and the engravings.
    - Will
    Unique and restored vintage pens: Redeem Pens

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to penwash For This Useful Post:

    Deb (January 7th, 2020)

  8. #5
    Senior Member manoeuver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Near Midwest, US
    Posts
    1,202
    Thanks
    450
    Thanked 536 Times in 265 Posts
    Rep Power
    10

    Default Re: Rosemary

    pretty special, that pen.

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to manoeuver For This Useful Post:

    Deb (January 7th, 2020)

  10. #6
    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    4,869
    Thanks
    5,159
    Thanked 7,489 Times in 2,784 Posts
    Rep Power
    14

    Default Re: Rosemary

    I've heard about the "Rosemary" pens before - was that a previous story from you, Deb? Lovely pen and such a persuasive mystery!
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to Jon Szanto For This Useful Post:

    Deb (January 8th, 2020)

  12. #7
    Senior Member Deb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Highlands of Scotland
    Posts
    1,556
    Thanks
    932
    Thanked 1,487 Times in 721 Posts
    Rep Power
    9

    Default Re: Rosemary

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Szanto View Post
    I've heard about the "Rosemary" pens before - was that a previous story from you, Deb? Lovely pen and such a persuasive mystery!
    I honestly don't know, Jon. With my memory I could have written anything - my memoirs! Except that would just be a paragraph because my memory.
    But it is a great mystery. Even Stephen Hull, that wizard of research, can find little about British Carbon Papares or the person who came up with those names, or why.
    Last edited by Deb; January 8th, 2020 at 04:10 AM.
    Regards,
    Deb
    My Blog
    My Pen Sales

  13. #8
    Senior Member Deb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Highlands of Scotland
    Posts
    1,556
    Thanks
    932
    Thanked 1,487 Times in 721 Posts
    Rep Power
    9

    Default Re: Rosemary

    Quote Originally Posted by manoeuver View Post
    pretty special, that pen.
    Isn't it nice? So simple but quite impressive in a quiet way.
    Regards,
    Deb
    My Blog
    My Pen Sales

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to Deb For This Useful Post:

    manoeuver (January 8th, 2020)

  15. #9
    Senior Member Deb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Highlands of Scotland
    Posts
    1,556
    Thanks
    932
    Thanked 1,487 Times in 721 Posts
    Rep Power
    9

    Default Re: Rosemary

    Quote Originally Posted by penwash View Post
    Oooh! What an elegant pen.

    Love the hard-rubber, style, and the engravings.
    It all goes together very well!
    Regards,
    Deb
    My Blog
    My Pen Sales

  16. #10
    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    4,869
    Thanks
    5,159
    Thanked 7,489 Times in 2,784 Posts
    Rep Power
    14

    Default Re: Rosemary

    Quote Originally Posted by Deb View Post
    I honestly don't know, Jon. With my memory I could have written anything - my memoirs! Except that would just be a paragraph because my memory. But it is a great mystery. Even Stephen Hull, that wizard of research, can find little about British Carbon Papares or the person who came up with those names, or why.
    I've looked back online to see if something jogs my memory, not much so far. Jim Mamoulides has one example on his PenHero Facebook page, and I did come across a short piece by Leigh Reyes about a Rosemary set she has. It is worth looking at if only for the whole set, and the lovely condition. I'm now also wondering if it was covered in a Pennant or Paul's FPJ article. Just seems it isn't the first time I've seen these pens mentioned.

    I'm glad there are people like you who appreciate these, too.
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

  17. The Following User Says Thank You to Jon Szanto For This Useful Post:

    Deb (January 8th, 2020)

  18. #11
    Senior Member FredRydr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Carlisle, Pennsylvania USA
    Posts
    3,054
    Thanks
    659
    Thanked 3,165 Times in 1,349 Posts
    Rep Power
    12

    Default Re: Rosemary

    "National Security" jogged my memory, but I confused the company with those check writing pens with the serrated roller on top.

  19. The Following User Says Thank You to FredRydr For This Useful Post:

    Deb (January 8th, 2020)

  20. #12
    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    4,869
    Thanks
    5,159
    Thanked 7,489 Times in 2,784 Posts
    Rep Power
    14

    Default Re: Rosemary

    Quote Originally Posted by Deb View Post
    I honestly don't know, Jon. With my memory I could have written anything - my memoirs!
    Oh, Miss Deb! Calling Miss Deb!!

    (Hey, I'm right there with you on the memory stuff - people refer all the time to articles I've written I've forgotten)

    Anyway, it appear you have approached the subject of Rosemary and BCP twice before, on May 13, 2011, as well as July 21, 2017. Both of these links are to entries on your GW blog, and it was likely the 2nd (recent) one that I remember reading.

    Well, so there's that.
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

  21. #13
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Location
    Manila, Philippines
    Posts
    7
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Rosemary

    That looks absolutely pretty.

  22. The Following User Says Thank You to caffeinenoto For This Useful Post:

    Deb (January 8th, 2020)

  23. #14
    Senior Member Deb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Highlands of Scotland
    Posts
    1,556
    Thanks
    932
    Thanked 1,487 Times in 721 Posts
    Rep Power
    9

    Default Re: Rosemary

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Szanto View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Deb View Post
    I honestly don't know, Jon. With my memory I could have written anything - my memoirs!
    Oh, Miss Deb! Calling Miss Deb!!

    (Hey, I'm right there with you on the memory stuff - people refer all the time to articles I've written I've forgotten)

    Anyway, it appear you have approached the subject of Rosemary and BCP twice before, on May 13, 2011, as well as July 21, 2017. Both of these links are to entries on your GW blog, and it was likely the 2nd (recent) one that I remember reading.

    Well, so there's that.
    You are appointed my official memory, Jon.
    Regards,
    Deb
    My Blog
    My Pen Sales

  24. The Following User Says Thank You to Deb For This Useful Post:

    Jon Szanto (January 8th, 2020)

  25. #15
    Member DumDum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Location
    Warwickshire, England
    Posts
    65
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 20 Times in 16 Posts
    Rep Power
    1

    Default Re: Rosemary

    That is one handsome pen. Where does a party find such things? Luck? Specific traders?

  26. The Following User Says Thank You to DumDum For This Useful Post:

    Deb (January 8th, 2020)

  27. #16
    FPG Donor ♕ Chrissy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Berkshire UK
    Posts
    6,184
    Thanks
    3,078
    Thanked 5,277 Times in 2,102 Posts
    Rep Power
    15

    Default Re: Rosemary

    Quote Originally Posted by Deb View Post

    This is a Rosemary pen full name "Rosemary, That's For Remembrance" which is a quote from Hamlet when Ophelia is recounting the symbolism of the flowers as she prepares to end her young life.

    Almost everything about this pen is a mystery. Rosemary and National Security were made on behalf of British Carbon Papers, a company about which little is known. Several manufacturers may have been involved in the making of these pens. Conway Stewart and Valentine have been suggested. More certain are Langs of Liverpool and Henry Stark, Son and Hamilton.

    This clipless pen measures 12.8 cm capped and is probably a ladies' purse pen. Note the threading on the base of the barrel to enable secure posting. It has been said that the Rosemary was issued in memory of the fallen in World War I. Though there is no evidence for this it seems likely. And National Security? How many pens are named after an abstract concept?
    It's a very sweet pen with such a lovely name, but pens that thin always look really fragile to me.
    Regards, Chrissy | My Blog: inkyfountainpens

  28. The Following User Says Thank You to Chrissy For This Useful Post:

    Deb (January 8th, 2020)

  29. #17
    Senior Member Deb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Highlands of Scotland
    Posts
    1,556
    Thanks
    932
    Thanked 1,487 Times in 721 Posts
    Rep Power
    9

    Default Re: Rosemary

    Not in the least fragile, Chrissy. After all, it's still here almost 100 years after it was made. Thin can be uncomfortable for long writing sessions though and MHR is a little less robust than BHR.
    Regards,
    Deb
    My Blog
    My Pen Sales

  30. The Following User Says Thank You to Deb For This Useful Post:

    Chrissy (January 8th, 2020)

  31. #18
    Senior Member Deb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Highlands of Scotland
    Posts
    1,556
    Thanks
    932
    Thanked 1,487 Times in 721 Posts
    Rep Power
    9

    Default Re: Rosemary

    Quote Originally Posted by DumDum View Post
    That is one handsome pen. Where does a party find such things? Luck? Specific traders?
    There is no one special place. I buy old pens for restoration at auctions, on eBay and sometimes locally. Most of what turns up locally is Parker 45s and Platignums but sometimes I strike it lucky.
    Regards,
    Deb
    My Blog
    My Pen Sales

  32. #19
    Senior Member Deb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Highlands of Scotland
    Posts
    1,556
    Thanks
    932
    Thanked 1,487 Times in 721 Posts
    Rep Power
    9

    Default Re: Rosemary

    Quote Originally Posted by FredRydr View Post
    "National Security" jogged my memory, but I confused the company with those check writing pens with the serrated roller on top.
    I know the pens you mean but only from books.
    Regards,
    Deb
    My Blog
    My Pen Sales

  33. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Dallas, as in the 80's TV Series
    Posts
    2,548
    Thanks
    1,724
    Thanked 3,210 Times in 1,159 Posts
    Rep Power
    7

    Default Re: Rosemary

    Quote Originally Posted by DumDum View Post
    That is one handsome pen. Where does a party find such things? Luck? Specific traders?
    It really depends on how much "hunting" and "connecting" you want to do.

    This is partially a response to your other thread asking for pen suggestions. If you want to go the vintage route, the best way (not the quickest nor the cheapest) is through building a connection with other vintage collectors. This is the "connecting" path.

    eBay, being the global market, will always be an option, but shopping there is just like shopping in a flea market the size of the globe, so a lot of research, caution, where timing and luck cannot be dismissed as factors. This is the "hunting" path.

    But the most important thing is to arm yourself with enough knowledge to be able to discern which pen you may like out of hundreds of different styles. This is where forums such as FPGeeks can help you.

    And yes, eventually, you have to start somewhere, but if you treat this hobby as a journey, sometimes you luck out, sometimes you strike out, so look at the big picture and select the path that will give you more wins than loses.

    Hope this helps a bit.
    - Will
    Unique and restored vintage pens: Redeem Pens

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •