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Thread: PSA: Stolen Pens from the LA Pen Show

  1. #41
    Senior Member silverlifter's Avatar
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    Default Re: PSA: Stolen Pens from the LA Pen Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Chemyst View Post
    Is there a database/wiki/list of “pens of questionable provenance” maintained anywhere?

    Something that potential buyers inside community could check before making a purchase?
    No. This was the reason I started the thread. Sarj's tray contained some pretty distinctive pens, and one would hope that if the thief does try to offload then on a pen board, they would be spotted.
    Vintage. Cursive italic. Iron gall.

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  3. #42
    Senior Member Fermata's Avatar
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    Default Re: PSA: Stolen Pens from the LA Pen Show

    I would get so tired of having arguments with people who know more about a subject than I do, it would wear me down. What is the point?

    Sympathies to Sarj. a good man who puts on a good display, he helps make a good pen show, he must be feeling really let down at the moment.

    I do not want to think that another vendor could have stolen his stock, I would hope that it is just an opportunist sneak thief who thought he could make some easy money, such thefts are going to be very difficult to prevent in the future whilst allowing easy access to the pens for prospective buyers.

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  5. #43
    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
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    Default Re: PSA: Stolen Pens from the LA Pen Show

    More heat than light and statements taken out of context. I certainly didn’t discount everything SG was suggesting, and in fact did not see one of the later responses. As I’ve been bopping between work locations, this has been a bit scattered. If nothing else, I would hope that the information that a friend suffered the loss makes me to be more intent on solutions than not. I’ll look these thoughts over again as dispassionately as I can. It would be wonderful to work towards a solution.
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

  6. #44
    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
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    Default Re: PSA: Stolen Pens from the LA Pen Show

    And now, home after work, it really becomes clear that this was not a thread for me to be involved with, and I've done a poor job of it. Maybe the rest of you can figure it out.
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

  7. #45
    Senior Member Sailor Kenshin's Avatar
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    Default Re: PSA: Stolen Pens from the LA Pen Show

    Quote Originally Posted by sgphoto View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Szanto View Post

    But you have no way of knowing that. It's easy to say, and to assume, but it is nothing more than a hunch. One look at the tray shows a lot of shiny, an easy target for a person with no pen knowledge.



    It's someone who is a collector, another vendor, or someone who knows the layout well enough to be comfortable enough to invisibly move about. Someone or often a couple of people working together. One to be a lookout and/or distract, the other to make the steal.
    The theft occurred on the first day of a new location/venue for the pen show. None of the vendors 'knew' the layout more than a couple hours beforehand.



    Pro-active always beats reactive. I'd rather stop a theft by conspicuous cameras than try to determine who the thief was after the fact.
    I can't really argue with that. The issue is how best to make this happen, and how it would all be paid for and operated. One of the biggest aspects of the recent hits at pen shows is grasping the possibility that things really are changing and what has been ok in the past won't be in the future. I don't necessarily think, like some do, that tech is always the answer. It might be, in some of these situations.
    11 years in law enforcement, 5 as a detective makes my suspicions of "family" more than a hunch. I might be wrong, but odds are in my favor this was not an "outside" hit.

    Most pen shows are all the same. The location doesn't matter. Who better than "family" to know how these events happen?

    Who pays for the technology and who operates it? It would be paid for by those individuals wanting to protect their merchandise. I'm betting the fellow who had his pens taken now wishes he had cameras and a notice advising he had cameras. Thieves look for easy targets where they're not going to be on camera. This is not like porch thieves where it's a crime of opportunity. Someone knew what they was going for.

    This also occurs in antiquarian book shows. Cameras are now being used by wise vendors. Technology can be your friend. It may not be the total answer but it's better than what occurs now.

    I've said all I need to about this. People will decide what they want to do.

    Cheers!

    Sg
    My second thought would have been 'hotel employee.'

    Weren't there some valuable pens stolen from a show a few years back? Would there be a way to find commonalities between the thefts?

    Someone would have to keep an eye on sales, but those stolen pens could also have been sold privately...we were assuming instead that they'd show up on fleabay.
    My other pen is a Montblanc.

    And my other blog is a tumblr!


    And my latest ebook, for spooky wintery reading:

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  9. #46
    Member JParanee's Avatar
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    Default Re: PSA: Stolen Pens from the LA Pen Show

    When it is mentioned that it could be an inside job hence higher end pens where targeted please remember in this day and age it is very easy to get up to speed on what is valuable and not valuable

    As mentioned my Expierence is working the very largest custom knife shows where a single knife just like a pen can be thousands of dollars

    Regretfully we have had to resort to glass cases and handing items to people that want to see them and if we are going to display high end items on top of the case it is kept to a few examples and than the table/case watcher is on high alert .....plus if we catch you stealing we cut your finger off

    I went to my first pen show this year and really enjoyed it

    It was very much like the smaller custom knife shows and it’s a wonderful community

    If openly displaying in these small shows you need someone to sit your table even when you take a bathroom break

    Pens knives it’s all the same

    Small high end items and a wonderful community that can be preyed on by scum because of the openness and trust in the community ....very sad

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  11. #47
    Junior Member momiecat's Avatar
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    Default Re: PSA: Stolen Pens from the LA Pen Show

    I think there should be more cameras. The locked cases is a good idea also. I have been to shows where people just nudge other people to get a look at pens on a table. Too many people at one time is uncontrollable if the pens are just laid out in the open. My condolence to Sarj. I hope they catch the theif!

  12. #48
    Senior Member Sailor Kenshin's Avatar
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    Default Re: PSA: Stolen Pens from the LA Pen Show

    Quote Originally Posted by JParanee View Post
    When it is mentioned that it could be an inside job hence higher end pens where targeted please remember in this day and age it is very easy to get up to speed on what is valuable and not valuable

    As mentioned my Expierence is working the very largest custom knife shows where a single knife just like a pen can be thousands of dollars

    Regretfully we have had to resort to glass cases and handing items to people that want to see them and if we are going to display high end items on top of the case it is kept to a few examples and than the table/case watcher is on high alert .....plus if we catch you stealing we cut your finger off

    I went to my first pen show this year and really enjoyed it

    It was very much like the smaller custom knife shows and it’s a wonderful community

    If openly displaying in these small shows you need someone to sit your table even when you take a bathroom break

    Pens knives it’s all the same

    Small high end items and a wonderful community that can be preyed on by scum because of the openness and trust in the community ....very sad
    As you say, it's easy to look up item values. Since all these shows (pen, knife, gem) have to be advertised, it makes me wonder if the same 'ring' goes around stealing at all of them.
    My other pen is a Montblanc.

    And my other blog is a tumblr!


    And my latest ebook, for spooky wintery reading:

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CM2NGSSD

  13. #49
    Member JParanee's Avatar
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    Default Re: PSA: Stolen Pens from the LA Pen Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Sailor Kenshin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by JParanee View Post
    When it is mentioned that it could be an inside job hence higher end pens where targeted please remember in this day and age it is very easy to get up to speed on what is valuable and not valuable

    As mentioned my Expierence is working the very largest custom knife shows where a single knife just like a pen can be thousands of dollars

    Regretfully we have had to resort to glass cases and handing items to people that want to see them and if we are going to display high end items on top of the case it is kept to a few examples and than the table/case watcher is on high alert .....plus if we catch you stealing we cut your finger off

    I went to my first pen show this year and really enjoyed it

    It was very much like the smaller custom knife shows and it’s a wonderful community

    If openly displaying in these small shows you need someone to sit your table even when you take a bathroom break

    Pens knives it’s all the same

    Small high end items and a wonderful community that can be preyed on by scum because of the openness and trust in the community ....very sad
    As you say, it's easy to look up item values. Since all these shows (pen, knife, gem) have to be advertised, it makes me wonder if the same 'ring' goes around stealing at all of them.
    I’m sure there are certain people that target trade shows etc but in reality as any show platform grows it draws more people and regretfully as the numbers rise the number of unethical people in the room rises

    A show like Blade when they open the front door gets thousands of people moving throughout the room

    Setup Blade show Atlanta

    This is half the room



    This is the line forming to get in on opening day




    This is what we have resorted to for booths

    a controlled cube with glass for high end items

    This is set up



    Don’t get me wrong there are plenty of open tables but they are where the theft happens



    Bottom line is as your shows grow and hopefully they will the odds of thieves just grows with it

    There are a few large knife shows around the country similar to pen shows just much larger and many many more items that are a lot more expensive on average than the pen shows

    It’s like The pen shows with a great core group that works the shows

    we all meet and hang out after show hours etc

    It’s like the pen community on steroids

    We have learned that if we are going to leave open tables unattended or not watched closely there will be losses
    Last edited by JParanee; February 24th, 2020 at 08:01 PM.

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  15. #50
    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
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    Default Re: PSA: Stolen Pens from the LA Pen Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Sailor Kenshin View Post
    Weren't there some valuable pens stolen from a show a few years back? Would there be a way to find commonalities between the thefts?
    Somewhere in the vicinity of 4-8 weeks prior to the LA theft, there was a theft of a long-time dealer, approximately twice as many pens, at a show in Munich. There was small theft in Philly just before LA. And a few pens walked on the last day of LA, 3 days after Sarj's case of appr. 10 pens was nabbed. Whether it is a short-term bump or a trend, it is still troubling and will need to be addressed.

    I really appreciate JP's insights from the knife shows.
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

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    Default Re: PSA: Stolen Pens from the LA Pen Show

    Wow...that knife show is HUGE. When I lived in CA, we used to attend gem and mineral shows. They were far larger than the LIPS, held, if I remember, in a hotel or convention center, but dinky compared to that knife show.
    My other pen is a Montblanc.

    And my other blog is a tumblr!


    And my latest ebook, for spooky wintery reading:

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CM2NGSSD

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    Default Re: PSA: Stolen Pens from the LA Pen Show

    Here are videos from 18 and 19

    They are long but you can see how people display

    Very similar to a pen show but much larger





  18. #53
    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
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    Default Re: PSA: Stolen Pens from the LA Pen Show

    For anyone interested, noted vintage penman David Nishimura has a good recap of the LA pen show and situation on his blog. Worth a visit.
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

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  20. #54
    Senior Member calamus's Avatar
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    Default Re: PSA: Stolen Pens from the LA Pen Show

    Someone a few pages back lamented about the crushing financial burden vendors would be staggering under if they had to put a plexiglass cover ($15? $20?) over trays containing $15,000 or $20,000 worth of high-end fountain pens, plus the back-breaking labor of transporting the additional weight of that piece (or several pieces) of plexiglass. Somehow, poignant as that must have seemed to whoever said it, it failed to bring me to tears. I must be an insensitive lout, I suppose.

    Nevertheless, I was a jeweler and lapidary for many years, and even as a starving hippie (living hand to mouth, as the saying goes) was able to afford locking display cases for selling my wares at gem shows and fairs. The display cases were attractive and not terribly expensive, although pricier ones are also available, of course.
    Last edited by calamus; February 26th, 2020 at 01:37 PM.
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    Default Re: PSA: Stolen Pens from the LA Pen Show

    Quote Originally Posted by calamus View Post
    Someone a few pages back lamented about the crushing financial burden vendors would be staggering under if they had to put a plexiglass cover ($15? $20?) over trays containing $15,000 or $20,000 worth of high-end fountain pens, plus the back-breaking labor of transporting the additional weight of that piece (or several pieces) of plexiglass. Somehow, poignant as that must have seemed to whoever said it, it failed to bring me to tears. I must be an insensitive lout, I suppose.
    The issue for someone like Sarj is that they fly in from the UK, so transporting the plexiglass with them is not an option.

    If, however, the organisers of the show got their shit together, they could arrange for producers of said plexiglass covers to lease them to stall holders as part of the set-up fee (or some similar sort of arrangement). I have been to numerous trade shows and purchasing a booth/table always came with multiple additional options (TV screens, lighting, potted plants for fucks sake...).
    Vintage. Cursive italic. Iron gall.

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  24. #56
    Member LeFreak's Avatar
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    Default Re: PSA: Stolen Pens from the LA Pen Show

    ...
    Last edited by LeFreak; February 26th, 2020 at 04:04 PM.
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    Default Re: PSA: Stolen Pens from the LA Pen Show

    Some interesting ideas for the future. For this particular theft, you might ask here and in FPN for people who might have been videoing at the time it happened, to check their videos or photos. Tell where your table was in relation to the room and in relation to other tables. Post a picture of your table. Good luck. Chances are slim but not zero.

    This is galling.

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