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Thread: Fountain Pens More Convenient, but Not Superior to Dip Pens

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    Default Re: Fountain Pens More Convenient, but Not Superior to Dip Pens

    Since my dip pen is in India and at least several weeks away from shipment, I'm looking for a glass dip pen as well that can be in my hands sooner.

    The Rohrer and Klingner dip pen has been recommended.

    Are there others to consider?

    Thanks.

    Sg

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    Default Re: Fountain Pens More Convenient, but Not Superior to Dip Pens

    J. Herbin also make them.

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    Default Re: Fountain Pens More Convenient, but Not Superior to Dip Pens

    I've not seen either the R&K or J. Herbin in hand, but it appears the J. Herbin might be thinner and more prone to break. Is that correct?

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    Default Re: Fountain Pens More Convenient, but Not Superior to Dip Pens

    Quote Originally Posted by sgphoto View Post
    I've not seen either the R&K or J. Herbin in hand, but it appears the J. Herbin might be thinner and more prone to break. Is that correct?
    Not really. I have a number of glass dip pens, a couple from JH, and the rest of unknown pedigree from Amazon and fleabay. How each writes is a roll of the dice. One of the cheapest glass pens I own is the best writer.

    Amazon may still have some in stock. I paid around seven, eight bucks.

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    Default Re: Fountain Pens More Convenient, but Not Superior to Dip Pens

    Quote Originally Posted by sgphoto View Post
    I've not seen either the R&K or J. Herbin in hand, but it appears the J. Herbin might be thinner and more prone to break. Is that correct?
    The small J. Herbin has been sturdy enough for my (careful, intermittent) use over the last 45 years. In hand, it reminds me of glass stirring rods from chemistry class at school. Perhaps the larger decorative ones are more fragile. I couldn't say.

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    Default Re: Fountain Pens More Convenient, but Not Superior to Dip Pens

    I had to use dip pens in elementary school for grades one through four and half of grade 5. Dip pens are, to me, the nastiest and most old-fashioned thing you could write with beyond a sharp stick dipped in ink. The most I could get out of a dip in the ink was a single line. Writing with dip pens was the most tiresome way to write. I am left handed and left hand had to go up to the top right corner of the desk to dip the pen (right handed world). I used ballpoints at home for homework.

    I think all the hobbyists singing the praises of dip pens have no idea of the misery they were to have to use for everything. There are no words to reflect adequate scorn on dip pens, especially as I warm to this topic. Fie!

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    Default Re: Fountain Pens More Convenient, but Not Superior to Dip Pens

    Quote Originally Posted by Deb View Post
    ...seething hatred of children and calculated sadism but not much else.
    Seething Hatred and Calculated Sadism

    Sounds like a great thriller/spy novel!

    This is my favourite sentence this week! Thanks Deb!

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    Default Re: Fountain Pens More Convenient, but Not Superior to Dip Pens

    Quote Originally Posted by pajaro View Post
    I had to use dip pens in elementary school for grades one through four and half of grade 5.

    ... I used ballpoints at home for homework.


    Wow...what a weird contrast.. I've heard of Dip vs Fountain, and I've heard of Fountain vs Ballpoint (my mom was not allowed to use Ballpoint in High school) but wow... it's like your school skipped an entire iteration of writing instrument... weird! and fascinating!

    It does mean you have the experience of having used the gamut of writing instruments of the 20th century though!

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    Default Re: Fountain Pens More Convenient, but Not Superior to Dip Pens

    Quote Originally Posted by pajaro View Post
    I had to use dip pens in elementary school for grades one through four and half of grade 5. Dip pens are, to me, the nastiest and most old-fashioned thing you could write with beyond a sharp stick dipped in ink. The most I could get out of a dip in the ink was a single line. Writing with dip pens was the most tiresome way to write. I am left handed and left hand had to go up to the top right corner of the desk to dip the pen (right handed world). I used ballpoints at home for homework.

    I think all the hobbyists singing the praises of dip pens have no idea of the misery they were to have to use for everything. There are no words to reflect adequate scorn on dip pens, especially as I warm to this topic. Fie!
    I am pleased you are "warming to the topic" nonetheless. I've been using a dip pen for writing letters to my grand daughters and they enjoy getting them. I've collected four types of Esterbrook nibs and prefer the 048 Falcon and 788 the best, I suspect the nibs you were given to use as a child were not of this caliber, nor the paper such that made the ink flow.

    I've found that one must match the nib to the paper and as we know, paper was in short supply in the old days so you used what you had which explains why there were no attempt to produce a non crossed out worded document. I've studied American Civil War soldier letters and marvel at how excellent was their penmanship.

    No, my intent on starting the thread was not to say dip pens are a joy to use, but that modern fountain types are not superior in writing. The large 788 holds much ink and I can easily crank out several lines of communication. I only use Waterman, a wet, free flowing type as you are already aware.

    I hope others will consider wanting to have the experience of their ancestors in using a dip pen which the Esterbrook nibs still exist inexpensively and good unused supply.

    There is a way to prepare the nib. Best to get a new one that is not rusting. And, maintenance is important if not necessary to provide longevity of use.
    Last edited by Chuck Naill; April 11th, 2020 at 04:15 AM.

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    Default Re: Fountain Pens More Convenient, but Not Superior to Dip Pens

    I found this pen on Amazon for $10.00. Molshine Handmade High Borosilicate Glass Glass Dip Pen. Figured I couldn't go wrong for $10.

    I was right. It's a keeper and writes like a fine nib on copy paper to Rhodia pads. I went through about 12 different inks and was surprised at the ease of writing. And it puts a generous amount of ink on the papers though well-controlled and gives the ink a saturation that was deeper than usual with fp nibs.

    Would I want to write long letters with this pen? No, but I could. I can see addressing envelopes and writing short correspondence with it.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Default Re: Fountain Pens More Convenient, but Not Superior to Dip Pens

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    I am sure this will cause some push back, but after experiencing using vintage dip pen nibs, I am sort of convinced that fountain pens didn't improve what could be accomplished with a good dip pen, they just made it more convenient. Thoughts?
    Since when isn't convenience an improvement. 50 years ago it took a super computer to do what todays iPhone does. The iPhone is just a bit more convenient. It doesn't take a room or two to hold it either.

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    Default Re: Fountain Pens More Convenient, but Not Superior to Dip Pens

    Quote Originally Posted by hogwldfltr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    I am sure this will cause some push back, but after experiencing using vintage dip pen nibs, I am sort of convinced that fountain pens didn't improve what could be accomplished with a good dip pen, they just made it more convenient. Thoughts?
    Since when isn't convenience an improvement. 50 years ago it took a super computer to do what todays iPhone does. The iPhone is just a bit more convenient. It doesn't take a room or two to hold it either.
    Thank you for expressing your thoughts. I had in mind writing itself was not improved upon. Some think the dip pen produced better communication because it paused the writing process to give the writer time to properly construct more clearly their thoughts.

    Many here I am sure do not think the BIC crystal was an improvement although more convenient than a fountain pen.

    Shelby Foote used an Esterbrook 313. More information here. http://theesterbrookproject.com/NIB%...ATE%20PEN.html
    Last edited by Chuck Naill; April 12th, 2020 at 05:12 AM.

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    Default Re: Fountain Pens More Convenient, but Not Superior to Dip Pens

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hogwldfltr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    I am sure this will cause some push back, but after experiencing using vintage dip pen nibs, I am sort of convinced that fountain pens didn't improve what could be accomplished with a good dip pen, they just made it more convenient. Thoughts?
    Since when isn't convenience an improvement. 50 years ago it took a super computer to do what todays iPhone does. The iPhone is just a bit more convenient. It doesn't take a room or two to hold it either.
    Thank you for expressing your thoughts. I had in mind writing itself was not improved upon. Some think the dip pen produced better communication because it paused the writing process to give the writer time to properly construct more clearly their thoughts.

    Many here I am sure do not think the BIC crystal was an improvement although more convenient than a fountain pen.

    Shelby Foote used an Esterbrook 313. More information here. http://theesterbrookproject.com/NIB%...ATE%20PEN.html
    The BIC crystal doesn't maintain the functionality of a fountain pen so it loses any advantage due to its convenience factor if someone requires the functionality that a nib provides. This is a sophomoric argument imho. What functionality does a fountain pen lose in comparison to a dip pen?
    Last edited by hogwldfltr; April 12th, 2020 at 06:38 AM.

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    Default Re: Fountain Pens More Convenient, but Not Superior to Dip Pens

    Quote Originally Posted by hogwldfltr View Post
    [ This is a sophomoric argument imho.
    In your opinion. In my opinion we're entitled to have a civilised discussion without tending towards an insult. Haven't we seen enough of that lately?
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    Default Re: Fountain Pens More Convenient, but Not Superior to Dip Pens

    Quote Originally Posted by Deb View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hogwldfltr View Post
    [ This is a sophomoric argument imho.
    In your opinion. In my opinion we're entitled to have a civilised discussion without tending towards an insult. Haven't we seen enough of that lately?
    I believe that was civil; how is it not? I've noticed a propensity for you to attack my posts however. I'll certainly try to give you less to point at. Maybe that means I'll stop posting if that would please you. Let me know.

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    Default Re: Fountain Pens More Convenient, but Not Superior to Dip Pens

    I'm unaware of any propensity to attack your posts. You've only been here a short time and to be honest, I hadn't really singled you out from the other new arrivals. Calling someone's argument sophomoric is hardly contributing to the value of the debate and is insulting. Keep it civil.
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    Default Re: Fountain Pens More Convenient, but Not Superior to Dip Pens

    Quote Originally Posted by hogwldfltr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Deb View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hogwldfltr View Post
    [ This is a sophomoric argument imho.
    In your opinion. In my opinion we're entitled to have a civilised discussion without tending towards an insult. Haven't we seen enough of that lately?
    I believe that was civil; how is it not? I've noticed a propensity for you to attack my posts however. I'll certainly try to give you less to point at. Maybe that means I'll stop posting if that would please you. Let me know.
    To date I sense a juvenile and pretentious attitude as well as an insecurity when called out. I trust this is considered "civil" and well received.

    I expected some push back, so nothing I didn't expect. My experience using ancient Esterbrook nibs have been much more tactile that when using a modern FP, but I would not want to apply my experience to others who are not interested, but just to urge those with an interest to go ahead.

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    Default Re: Fountain Pens More Convenient, but Not Superior to Dip Pens

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hogwldfltr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Deb View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hogwldfltr View Post
    [ This is a sophomoric argument imho.
    In your opinion. In my opinion we're entitled to have a civilised discussion without tending towards an insult. Haven't we seen enough of that lately?
    I believe that was civil; how is it not? I've noticed a propensity for you to attack my posts however. I'll certainly try to give you less to point at. Maybe that means I'll stop posting if that would please you. Let me know.
    To date I sense a juvenile and pretentious attitude as well as an insecurity when called out. I trust this is considered "civil" and well received.

    I expected some push back, so nothing I didn't expect. My experience using ancient Esterbrook nibs have been much more tactile that when using a modern FP, but I would not want to apply my experience to others who are not interested, but just to urge those with an interest to go ahead.
    OK, thanks for your civil input. As far as push back, first, do you really consider using the example of a BIC disposable as an argument against convenience as a good argument in this discussion? Answer truthfully. I personally see no validity in that argument as I pointed out earlier. If you'd like me to change the assessment from "sophomoric" to far reaching and inappropriate, so be it. Again the reason being that the BIC doesn't serve the functionality of a nibbed pen where as the fountains do. Also the idea of convenience not being an advancement being ludicrous so be it. Also, do you really expect me not to respond to snipes which are being presented as constructive but appear to me as more putdown than constructive also so be it. This isn't the first encounter I've had being critiqued from Deb, should I ignore that and not call it for what it seems. Sure I'm childish at almost 70 years of age. Thanks for the compliment.
    Last edited by hogwldfltr; April 12th, 2020 at 09:47 AM.

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    Default Re: Fountain Pens More Convenient, but Not Superior to Dip Pens

    Highly recommended to watch.

    Unfortunate, but true.

    I'll be out in the cornfield.

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    Default Re: Fountain Pens More Convenient, but Not Superior to Dip Pens

    Quote Originally Posted by hogwldfltr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hogwldfltr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Deb View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hogwldfltr View Post
    [ This is a sophomoric argument imho.
    In your opinion. In my opinion we're entitled to have a civilised discussion without tending towards an insult. Haven't we seen enough of that lately?
    I believe that was civil; how is it not? I've noticed a propensity for you to attack my posts however. I'll certainly try to give you less to point at. Maybe that means I'll stop posting if that would please you. Let me know.
    To date I sense a juvenile and pretentious attitude as well as an insecurity when called out. I trust this is considered "civil" and well received.

    I expected some push back, so nothing I didn't expect. My experience using ancient Esterbrook nibs have been much more tactile that when using a modern FP, but I would not want to apply my experience to others who are not interested, but just to urge those with an interest to go ahead.
    OK, thanks for your civil input. As far as push back, first, do you really consider using the example of a BIC disposable as an argument against convenience as a good argument in this discussion? Answer truthfully. I personally see no validity in that argument as I pointed out earlier. If you'd like me to change the assessment from "sophomoric" to far reaching and inappropriate, so be it. Again the reason being that the BIC doesn't serve the functionality of a nibbed pen where as the fountains do. Also the idea of convenience not being an advancement being ludicrous so be it. Also, do you really expect me not to respond to snipes which are being presented as constructive but appear to me as more putdown than constructive also so be it. This isn't the first encounter I've had being critiqued from Deb, should I ignore that and not call it for what it seems. Sure I'm childish at almost 70 years of age. Thanks for the compliment.
    This is becoming extremely tiresome and unproductive to say the least, but as you continue to bring up my name, where else did I "critique" you?
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