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Thread: Looking for fairly "Bulletproof" Inks other than Noodlers Ink

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    Default Looking for fairly "Bulletproof" Inks other than Noodlers Ink

    I enjoy the Noodlers inks that are bulletproof (or as bulletproof as their black, Heart of Darkness, Liberty's Elysium, etc). All those inks work well in my various pens.

    Looking to expand my inks, are there other brands that make claims of "bulletproof" qualities?

    In my search I find many ink qualities listed, but none seem to outright say "bulletproof" or other claims of longevity.

    What inks should I consider adding to my stock?

    Thanks.

    Sg

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    Senior Member carlos.q's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for fairly "Bulletproof" Inks other than Noodlers Ink

    MB Permanent blue and Permanent black are ISO certified as archival.

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    Default Re: Looking for fairly "Bulletproof" Inks other than Noodlers Ink

    I really like the MB Permanent Blue. Here are some notes I took when I was testing a number of permanent inks (unfortunately that project got put on indefinite hold when my son was born):

    • Sample from Anderson Pens
    • No feathering, moderate ghosting, no bleed-through even on cheap paper
    • No nib creep
    • Exacerbates the Lamy 2000 sweet spot issue
    • Takes soft-capping well
    • After 1 week of inactivity in a Lamy 2000 required coercion w/ dry napkin to flow again
    • Cleans out of the pen easily

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    Default Re: Looking for fairly "Bulletproof" Inks other than Noodlers Ink

    De Atramentis black document ink is waterproof but I think they also make one that is listed specifically as archival

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    Default Re: Looking for fairly "Bulletproof" Inks other than Noodlers Ink

    De Atramentis and Rohrer & Klingner have some waterproof inks. I don't know whether they are specified as archival or not.
    I particularly liked writing with all of the R&K sketchINK's and Lotte is almost black.
    Regards, Chrissy | My Blog: inkyfountainpens

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    Default Re: Looking for fairly "Bulletproof" Inks other than Noodlers Ink

    To clarify, I believe noodler's means that using a bulletproof ink will make your writing highly resistant to tampering (forgery). This is done by the ink bonding to the paper fibers. Water may still wash away some color but the letters are still visible. If you want water resistance then many inks have that to varying degrees, even inks that don't say they are water resistant (e.g.. many gray inks are good that way). For archival, tamper resistant ink, Monteverde and De Atramentis make "documental" inks.

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    Default Re: Looking for fairly "Bulletproof" Inks other than Noodlers Ink

    Any type of iron gall ink will also fit the bill.
    Like ESS Registrars blue/black only to name one.

    I like also the R&K Sketch inks as well as their 2 IG inks.

    There are many permanent black inks on the market.
    Like Pelikan Fount India or Platinum Carbon Black.......
    Last edited by Pterodactylus; February 21st, 2020 at 03:53 AM.

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    Default Re: Looking for fairly "Bulletproof" Inks other than Noodlers Ink

    Quote Originally Posted by Pterodactylus View Post
    ... Pelikan Fount India....
    Is Pelikan using "India" in its brands for fountain pen ink? Not helpful on their part.

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    Default Re: Looking for fairly "Bulletproof" Inks other than Noodlers Ink

    When I reviewed all of the R&K sketchINKs absolutely nothing washed away when the ink on the paper was immersed in water. Even when I scrubbed it with a Q-tip (or cotton bud)
    Regards, Chrissy | My Blog: inkyfountainpens

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    Default Re: Looking for fairly "Bulletproof" Inks other than Noodlers Ink

    Quote Originally Posted by FredRydr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pterodactylus View Post
    ... Pelikan Fount India....
    Is Pelikan using "India" in its brands for fountain pen ink? Not helpful on their part.
    I always thought that.
    Regards, Chrissy | My Blog: inkyfountainpens

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    Default Re: Looking for fairly "Bulletproof" Inks other than Noodlers Ink

    Quote Originally Posted by FredRydr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pterodactylus View Post
    ... Pelikan Fount India....
    Is Pelikan using "India" in its brands for fountain pen ink? Not helpful on their part.
    Not quite, in fact Fount India is according to Pelikan a fountain pen compatible India ink.
    It also contains carbon black (as India ink), it is document proof and related to their not FP compatible Skribtol India ink.
    It contains less carbon black but is almost as light proof as Skribtol.

    Btw. Pelikan has 3 document proof inks, Skribtol (not FP suitable, carbon black based India ink), Fount India (FP suitable India ink, also carbon black based) and 4001 Blue-Black (FP suitable, iron gall based).

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    Default Re: Looking for fairly "Bulletproof" Inks other than Noodlers Ink

    Thanks. Yes you are correct. For instance Noodler's Liberty's Elysium will lose much of the blue but the black remains and is legible. Same with the Red Black and Walnut.

    From my limited experience it seems though that many other brand colors of ink without a blackish base won't survive the water test, particularly lighter colors. Along with the water test, it also appears that UV and time will greatly diminish the legibility.

    Not being a chemist or even pretending I am, there must be something definitive that separates the water/age resistance inks from other inks. I have my father's notes from over 70 years ago that were written in black and blue inks that look remarkably fresh while some ball point notes have faded considerably. Whatever inks he used then have lasted though were never subjected to water or UV.

    Thanks for all the replies. Cheers!

    Sg
    Last edited by sgphoto; February 21st, 2020 at 12:34 PM.

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    Default Re: Looking for fairly "Bulletproof" Inks other than Noodlers Ink

    Quote Originally Posted by sgphoto View Post
    I have my father's notes from over 70 years ago that were written in black and blue inks that look remarkably fresh while some ball point notes have faded considerably. Whatever inks he used then have lasted though were never subjected to water or UV.
    Iron Gall inks. ESSRI and DRI are the old school variants, closest to what he would have used.
    Vintage. Cursive italic. Iron gall.

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    Default Re: Looking for fairly "Bulletproof" Inks other than Noodlers Ink

    Quote Originally Posted by silverlifter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sgphoto View Post
    I have my father's notes from over 70 years ago that were written in black and blue inks that look remarkably fresh while some ball point notes have faded considerably. Whatever inks he used then have lasted though were never subjected to water or UV.
    Iron Gall inks. ESSRI and DRI are the old school variants, closest to what he would have used.
    I'll give the ESSRI a try. It looks to have an interesting color and many positive reviews relating to my considerations. Many thanks.

    Cheers.
    Sg

    Update: Ordered a bottle of ESSRI from across the pond. Also looking at Akkerman #10 to try though all Akkerman inks seem rather pricey.
    Last edited by sgphoto; February 21st, 2020 at 02:30 PM. Reason: Update

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    Default Re: Looking for fairly "Bulletproof" Inks other than Noodlers Ink

    ESSRI is the only IG ink I haven't tried. The Akkerman is a very good choice; some claim that it is made by Diamine, which may be true, but it is different to Registrars, a little wetter.

    KWZ IG inks are a bit of an eye opener; they come in a stunning array of colours, but are a bit of a compromise in terms of pemanence. All are much wetter than old style IGs like DRI/ESSRI, but the further you move from the traditional blue black/dark blues, the more you give up in permanence.
    Vintage. Cursive italic. Iron gall.

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    Default Re: Looking for fairly "Bulletproof" Inks other than Noodlers Ink

    SBRE Brown in discussing his SBRE Brown ink sold by Akkerman, said it was made by Diamine. Perhaps it's like gasoline. Pretty much all the same producers, just distributed to various outlets for consumption.

    Thanks.

    Sg

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    Default Re: Looking for fairly "Bulletproof" Inks other than Noodlers Ink

    Quote Originally Posted by sgphoto View Post
    SBRE Brown in discussing his SBRE Brown ink sold by Akkerman, said it was made by Diamine. Perhaps it's like gasoline. Pretty much all the same producers, just distributed to various outlets for consumption.

    Thanks.

    Sg
    Indeed it is. I have no idea which other manufacturer could make ESSR ink if it isn't Diamine.
    Regards, Chrissy | My Blog: inkyfountainpens

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    Default Re: Looking for fairly "Bulletproof" Inks other than Noodlers Ink

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrissy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sgphoto View Post
    SBRE Brown in discussing his SBRE Brown ink sold by Akkerman, said it was made by Diamine. Perhaps it's like gasoline. Pretty much all the same producers, just distributed to various outlets for consumption.

    Thanks.

    Sg
    Indeed it is. I have no idea which other manufacturer could make ESSR ink if it isn't Diamine.
    Iím not convinced that Diamine is involved here.

    Diamineís iron gall ink is not bad but not as good as the ESS one (the Diamine and the Akkerman on the other hand are very similar).
    ESS is way less expensive than Diamine, normally inks which are manufactured by Diamine for somebody else are (obviously) more expensive than their own.
    (It is more than obvious that the Akkerman inks are Diamine inks)
    It is no rocket science to produce ink also as a one man show or small company (many recent examples, also with IG ink, e.g. KWZ).
    It was said many times in several sources that ESS was founded by a former employee of Stephens ink who took the blue-black formula with him when Stephens stopped making inks.

    This is a post from somebody who claims to be the ESS founder:

    Very interesting posting about Stephens ink especially as I worked for Stephens ( and later DRG ) from 1962 until 1972. Apart from manufacturing writing inks Stephens also made a large variety of speciality inks for example, meat marking ink, ink to mark crustations to research their traveling habits, plasterboard marking ink, Stephens Registrars ink etc.
    When the move was made from Gilespie Road, Highbury to the old Express Milk depot at 100 Drayton Park, by that time the volume of ink sales was declining and as a result Stephens gave up making ink in large circular teak vats holding thousands of gallons of ink, instead they opted to make smaller quantities in plastic barrels. I bought one of the old Teak vats from Stephens and I had the timber machined into usuable timber. As the lengths of teak was planned so the colours of the various inks which had been mixed in the vat were revealed. Incredible to see it's life history revealed in a rainbow of colours.
    Upon leaving Stephens to start my own company I took with me the Registrars ink business. I am still selling Registrars ink ( Iron Gall Ink) theough my company ESS (Ecclesiastical Stationery Supplies..Though we do not promote this name any more favouring ESS )
    Vic Stevenson.

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    Default Re: Looking for fairly "Bulletproof" Inks other than Noodlers Ink

    Interesting

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    Default Re: Looking for fairly "Bulletproof" Inks other than Noodlers Ink

    Most "pigment" inks are at least fairly water resistant and many are very resistant. I assume they are also a bit more light-fast than dye based inks, but that probably varies by manufacturer and even color.

    humble Pilot Blue-Black is also quite water resistant, despite being well mannered and inexpensive.
    David-

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