goulet and nibs.com stopped taking orders

[85AKbN]

goulet shut down:

Due to COVID-19 we are now fully remote, and all orders placed will not ship until it is safe for our team to resume working in the building. This may last weeks or longer. We are now offering free USPS shipping on any $50+ order within the US as a thanks for your patience.

nibs.com suspending operations.

[sgphoto]

I would be careful about making any orders from anywhere that takes your money now but are unable to quickly deliver the product. It doesn't matter what company it is. A pen that retails for $100.00 today will be lucky to bring $50.00 in a few weeks/months. Maybe even less as there won't be money available for pens. Retailers of mass market non-essentials will drop prices just to have cash flow with hopes to survive. Many retail vendors will not survive, will go bankrupt, and your money is gone.

I don't care what the company's good name is or what high moral standards they claim as these are not normal times and past performace isn't a good indicator of what can occur in the future.

Should you place an order not knowing if or when your order might appear, make sure it's money you can afford to lose.

Economics will tell you that certain product prices, referred to as non-essentials, will collapse in the long term. I see no reason this will not happen to the pen market. That Pelikan, bought last year for $800.00 retail, will sell new next year for perhaps $4-500 (or less). That used Pelikan bought for $800 will be lucky to bring $200.00 and that's optimistic. Pens are not investments 99% of the time. No one needs a pen to survive.

Buy only what you are assured to get. You'll need cash for the future.

Learn what essentials are and act accordingly.

It will suprise people to find that they lack many essentials but they swim in their over-abundance of Beanie Babies and the latest fads. If you've never learned to live below your means, you'll now pay the price.

In my case I had several items listed on Craiglist and other such sites. Here's why three weeks ago I removed those listings.

1. I don't want to have contact with people.

2. The items I had listed would be considered 'essentials' and highly desirable during rough economic times. As I didn't need the money, I knew they would go up in value tremendously and I could always sell or barter them into the foreseeable future for much more than I could get now.

If you have something non-essential you want to sell, do it now as the price will go down. Consider taking a loss today as you'll take a bigger loss next month.

If it's something you want to buy and it's non-essential, wait.

This isn't a matter of supporting small businesses and making a statement of your belief in a company, this is your economic well-being. Act wisely.

[Chrissy]

I would be careful about making any orders from anywhere that takes your money now but are unable to quickly deliver the product. It doesn't matter what company it is. A pen that retails for $100.00 today will be lucky to bring $50.00 in a few weeks/months. Maybe even less as there won't be money available for pens. Retailers of mass market non-essentials will drop prices just to have cash flow with hopes to survive. Many retail vendors will not survive, will go bankrupt, and your money is gone.

I don't care what the company's good name is or what high moral standards they claim as these are not normal times and past performace isn't a good indicator of what can occur in the future.

Should you place an order not knowing if or when your order might appear, make sure it's money you can afford to lose.

Economics will tell you that certain product prices, referred to as non-essentials, will collapse in the long term. I see no reason this will not happen to the pen market. That Pelikan, bought last year for $800.00 retail, will sell new next year for perhaps $4-500 (or less). That used Pelikan bought for $800 will be lucky to bring $200.00 and that's optimistic. Pens are not investments 99% of the time. No one needs a pen to survive.

Buy only what you are assured to get. You'll need cash for the future.

Learn what essentials are and act accordingly.

It will suprise people to find that they lack many essentials but they swim in their over-abundance of Beanie Babies and the latest fads. If you've never learned to live below your means, you'll now pay the price.

In my case I had several items listed on Craiglist and other such sites. Here's why three weeks ago I removed those listings.

1. I don't want to have contact with people.

2. The items I had listed would be considered 'essentials' and highly desirable during rough economic times. As I didn't need the money, I knew they would go up in value tremendously and I could always sell or barter them into the foreseeable future for much more than I could get now.

If you have something non-essential you want to sell, do it now as the price will go down. Consider taking a loss today as you'll take a bigger loss next month.

If it's something you want to buy and it's non-essential, wait.

This isn't a matter of supporting small businesses and making a statement of your belief in a company, this is your economic well-being. Act wisely.

Agreed. I'm buying hardly anything at the moment that is non-essential although I had to search for and buy a refill ink cartridge for my printer over the weekend as it's almost empty and we don't have a replacement.

If Goulet Pens are saying they are holding onto money but not shipping orders, I wouldn't be placing any orders with them for sure. If you pay for items by PayPal, then the contract is they have to ship within 7 days. You definitely don't want your PayPal "claim" period for non delivery to run out while you're waiting for goods to arrive at some date in the future.

Sg is right. Goods are more likely to come down in price after the pandemic than to go up so it's worth waiting if you can. Also, we will lose some retailers. Probably not Goulet Pens with their vast stocks, but some smaller retailers. It's therefore wise to not give them money now and hope for the best in the future.

[sgphoto]

I see where other pen companies around the world are shutting down for the pandemic. India has a lockdown on shipping until April 15th at the earliest.

While a few companies are taking orders, many have advised no orders will be shipped until an undetermined time in the future but they'll take your money now.

Be careful if you go that route. As you can see on the sales forums here and elsewhere, pen prices are dropping and there are few or no takers. This will continue for months as those who were "pen poor" are now seeing just how cash poor they are and must take a big loss in order to avoid further drops.

Not a time to sell if you can help it and it's not a time to buy as prices will fall much further on 95% of all pens.

[Jon Szanto]

Not a time to sell if you can help it and it's not a time to buy as prices will fall much further on 95% of all pens.

How do you come up with numbers like that? Why not 100%, or 60%, or 33% or any other number for that matter? How is this not just a WAG?

[whichwatch]

Not a time to sell if you can help it and it's not a time to buy as prices will fall much further on 95% of all pens.

How do you come up with numbers like that? Why not 100%, or 60%, or 33% or any other number for that matter? How is this not just a WAG?

Come on, Jon. The man has been around here for a month or two so is obviously an expert. The only question in my mind is given his apparent level of expertise in markets, why is he messing with pens instead of the stock market where he could make big money?

[sgphoto]

Not a time to sell if you can help it and it's not a time to buy as prices will fall much further on 95% of all pens.

How do you come up with numbers like that? Why not 100%, or 60%, or 33% or any other number for that matter? How is this not just a WAG?

Come on, Jon. The man has been around here for a month or two so is obviously an expert. The only question in my mind is given his apparent level of expertise in markets, why is he messing with pens instead of the stock market where he could make big money?

I've never claimed to be a pen or financial expert and I've never bought one pen thinking it would retain the price I paid for it. I have made money in the stock market by not buying or selling on emotion but on market conditions.

The pen market is subject to the same market as all other non-essentials. That doesn't take an expert to discover. Knowing the difference between a Parker made in 1932 and one made in 1933 may make you knowledgable about certain Parker pens. It does not speak to your financial acumen.

If you think the pen market is not subject to economics, well, there's plenty of pens for you to buy. Get 'em now before the price goes lower.

[whichwatch]

Not a time to sell if you can help it and it's not a time to buy as prices will fall much further on 95% of all pens.

How do you come up with numbers like that? Why not 100%, or 60%, or 33% or any other number for that matter? How is this not just a WAG?

Come on, Jon. The man has been around here for a month or two so is obviously an expert. The only question in my mind is given his apparent level of expertise in markets, why is he messing with pens instead of the stock market where he could make big money?

I've never claimed to be a pen or financial expert and I've never bought one pen thinking it would retain the price I paid for it. I have made money in the stock market by not buying or selling on emotion but on market conditions.

The pen market is subject to the same market as all other non-essentials. That doesn't take an expert to discover. Knowing the difference between a Parker made in 1932 and one made in 1933 may make you knowledgable about certain Parker pens. It does not speak to your financial acumen.

If you think the pen market is not subject to economics, well, there's plenty of pens for you to buy. Get 'em now before the price goes lower.

Oh, the pen market is no doubt subject to economics, same as any other market. I think what Jon and I are probably reacting to is the way you seemed to present your opinions as iron clad, unarguable facts. Perhaps you did not mean to sound that way.

My own opinion is that selling possibly at a loss after a crisis has caused a market to move sharply downward in fear that it might still go lower is often not a road to happiness. But I guess it all really depends on an individual's time horizon.

Just my opinion. Others may and no doubt will agree or disagree as they choose.

[sgphoto]

...why is he messing with pens instead of the stock market....

Have you ever tried to write a letter with a share certificate?

But I can write a letter with a Number 2 pencil if need be. Have you ever tried to eat a Montblanc 146?

I'm merely pointing out what nearly all markets are subject to and I don't believe the pen market is any different. Maybe some people will be upset by what I write. That's not my concern. Some people will get upset if I wear a blue shirt instead of a brown one. People can do what they wish.

At this time if you have guns, they'll increase in value. Pens will not.

[TSherbs]

I'm not buying jack.

But not for any of the reasons you say.

I'm just not spending money on anything but food and utilities and taxes (delayed, but inevitable).

I bought stamps, but I am not buying anything else related to this hobby. Not for months and months, likely. I don't know why anyone would spend anything except for essentials right now, but I can only speak for myself.

[Waski_the_Squirrel]

I'm not buying jack.
....

I'm with you. I made a few purchases right before the virus hit. Although I didn't know the future then, I am kicking myself for them.

[Chrissy]

I'm not buying jack.

But not for any of the reasons you say.

I'm just not spending money on anything but food and utilities and taxes (delayed, but inevitable).

I bought stamps, but I am not buying anything else related to this hobby. Not for months and months, likely. I don't know why anyone would spend anything except for essentials right now, but I can only speak for myself.

Understandable, but this is also the way that small businesses go under.

Consider if a 100% moratorium is the right way to go. Come April 13 (or May 1 or June 15 or ???), you may try to return to your normal life, only to find all the small things that gave you pleasure have dissolved away.

Is this not what your government is spending it's $2 trillion dollars on? Saving jobs and businesses that desperately need help because of the pandemic?

[Chemyst]

I'm not buying jack.

But not for any of the reasons you say.

I'm just not spending money on anything but food and utilities and taxes (delayed, but inevitable).

I bought stamps, but I am not buying anything else related to this hobby. Not for months and months, likely. I don't know why anyone would spend anything except for essentials right now, but I can only speak for myself.

Understandable, but this is also the way that small businesses go under.

Consider if a 100% moratorium is the right way to go. Come April 13 (or May 1 or June 15 or ???), you may try to return to your normal life, only to find all the small things that gave you pleasure have dissolved away.

Is this not what your government is spending it's $2 trillion dollars on? Saving jobs and businesses that desperately need help because of the pandemic?

That’ll certainly help in the short-term to keep rents paid and workers on the books.

In the medium term though, if people become too afraid of the future to spend money, except on food, utilities and taxes, then all your small businesses will rapidly be sucked into the recession/depression spiral.

[TSherbs]

I'm not buying jack.

But not for any of the reasons you say.

I'm just not spending money on anything but food and utilities and taxes (delayed, but inevitable).

I bought stamps, but I am not buying anything else related to this hobby. Not for months and months, likely. I don't know why anyone would spend anything except for essentials right now, but I can only speak for myself.

Understandable, but this is also the way that small businesses go under.

Consider if a 100% moratorium is the right way to go. Come April 13 (or May 1 or June 15 or ???), you may try to return to your normal life, only to find all the small things that gave you pleasure have dissolved away.

Small and local businesses need your support more than ever right now.

Sorry, but my family comes first.

Those businesses should save every penny, too. And if they close, then they close. I might lose my job, too.

We will come out of this, but I'll make sure that my wife and kids are ok before I buy a pen. Pens don't matter and are not a source of any deep happiness or meaning for me. They are just things.

And since within a few years I plan to retire, I can't be stupid with money now.

Sent from my Moto E (4) using Tapatalk

[724Seney]

I'm not buying jack.

But not for any of the reasons you say.

I'm just not spending money on anything but food and utilities and taxes (delayed, but inevitable).

I bought stamps, but I am not buying anything else related to this hobby. Not for months and months, likely. I don't know why anyone would spend anything except for essentials right now, but I can only speak for myself.

Understandable, but this is also the way that small businesses go under.

Consider if a 100% moratorium is the right way to go. Come April 13 (or May 1 or June 15 or ???), you may try to return to your normal life, only to find all the small things that gave you pleasure have dissolved away.

Small and local businesses need your support more than ever right now.

I agree with your sentiment that small businesses need our support now more than ever before. Absolutely right.
But the operative word is "business." How is it "business" if someone takes your money but you get nothing in return. I'd call that a loan.
Some loans get repaid and some get defaulted.
Every day I am doing something which is supporting our local businesses and I am doing so as best as I can. I am doing more "business" with our local businesses than ever before.
But I'm not giving any of our businesses money in return for an "IOU." From that perspective, I agree with the others.

[Chemyst]

I agree with your sentiment that small businesses need our support now more than ever before. Absolutely right.
But the operative word is "business." How is it "business" if someone takes your money but you get nothing in return. I'd call that a loan.
Some loans get repaid and some get defaulted.
Every day I am doing something which is supporting our local businesses and I am doing so as best as I can. I am doing more "business" with our local businesses than ever before.
But I'm not giving any of our businesses money in return for an "IOU." From that perspective, I agree with the others.

Something to think about though is that Goulet specifically structured his business in a good faith belief that his relationship with customers was a two-way street.

You may remember that he came before us a few years back and asked what we thought about Goulet Pens adding “Fulfillment by Amazon” to their model. Competitive pricing, distributed shipping and the ability to add orders to your Amazon cart. We stood to lose the meters of packing material, the notes and personalized drawings. People said “no”, they’d rather pay more for the personalized touches.

Of course, if Goulet Pens had “Fulfillment by Amazon” now, they’d still be shipping orders via the Amazon logistics chain. The fact that they are not, is largely based on what FP users asked for. For those same users to drop Goulet as soon as he suffers a logistical hiccup (during a global catastrophe) is a cold way to kill that relationship.

[724Seney]

I agree with your sentiment that small businesses need our support now more than ever before. Absolutely right.
But the operative word is "business." How is it "business" if someone takes your money but you get nothing in return. I'd call that a loan.
Some loans get repaid and some get defaulted.
Every day I am doing something which is supporting our local businesses and I am doing so as best as I can. I am doing more "business" with our local businesses than ever before.
But I'm not giving any of our businesses money in return for an "IOU." From that perspective, I agree with the others.

Something to think about though is that Goulet specifically structured his business in a good faith belief that his relationship with customers was a two-way street.

Maybe he did and maybe he didn't.....
I think he was just looking for a way to enhance his business and endear himself to potential customers.
And, don't get me wrong, there is nothing improper about that..........

But Goulet's approach has nothing to do with my point, which as usual, you have missed by a mile.

Where in any ethical business model, including Goulet's "two way street strategy," is it expected or customary that a customer's purchase is utilized by the business as a long term loan?

Goulet has created a cult. Good for him. Again, I have no issue with that.........
And, in cults, there is always lots of Kool-Aide consumed. And that is an individual's prerogative. And, if they want to pay him not knowing when their purchase will arrive, so be it. It's their money.

All I'm saying is that dealers with far more substantive long term customer satisfaction & relationships have simply not accepted payments for pens or services they cannot provide at the current time.
And, other dealers have carried on, meeting their customer's needs in spite of the pandemic created challenges.
That's where my business is going these days. And, no, they do not use Amazon's fulfillment either........

[TSherbs]

... For those same users to drop Goulet as soon as he suffers a logistical hiccup (during a global catastrophe) is a cold way to kill that relationship.

I don't think that "relationships" are possible with institutions or businesses. I consider these faux relationships, or modern commercial facsimiles. I consider relationships of the kind you are suggesting here not possible when money/product is the foundation of the exchange, including the extraction of money for profit from one human and then distributed to others. An exchange is being made, a trade. To me, that is not a "relationship" that has much value or commitment or trust or intimacy or openness that is real in any deep way. We err when we conflate commercial trade with any real relationship.

sgphoto was harsh, but I don't disagree with his caution: don't confuse business for profit with anything that is not business for profit. The Goulets, and other consumer retailers, know exactly how shallow consumer tastes and "loyalties" can be when it comes to delays, price increases, service manners, competition from other vendors, etc. No consumer should feel guilt or any kind of qualm about taking their money elsewhere for any reason they please. The portability of our money and purchasing power is part of consumer-based economic freedom. Use it or not, as you please. It is not "cold" to do so; it is exactly what the system is based upon--from the liberated consumer's point of view. Vendors may wish it were otherwise, but they have their own economic interests in mind.

[sgphoto]

I'm not buying jack.

But not for any of the reasons you say.

I'm just not spending money on anything but food and utilities and taxes (delayed, but inevitable).

I bought stamps, but I am not buying anything else related to this hobby. Not for months and months, likely. I don't know why anyone would spend anything except for essentials right now, but I can only speak for myself.

Understandable, but this is also the way that small businesses go under.

Consider if a 100% moratorium is the right way to go. Come April 13 (or May 1 or June 15 or ???), you may try to return to your normal life, only to find all the small things that gave you pleasure have dissolved away.

Small and local businesses need your support more than ever right now.

Those small pleasures you speak of, if external, are fleeting and always go away. It's been so in good times and bad.

Cultivate internal pleasures - those can last your lifetime and need not be dissolved in difficult times. You control those internal pleasures. You have no control over external ones.

I doubt anyone on their deathbed wished they had bought another Montblanc 149 to make their life complete.

[Chrissy]

I absolutely understand what you're saying, but some are rightly afraid that if they catch it they might not survive. They might not be around to enjoy any expensive luxuries they bought while hoping they might be OK. That's their uncertainty now.