Typical Sac Size For A 1920S Gold-Filled Wahl (#2 Nib) Pen?

[KBeezie]

Had this pen for a few years which was restored by the previous owner so I never really bothered to pull the section out to check on the sac (and it has only ever seen R&K Scabiosa, so wouldn't have done anything to the sac like an alkaline ink would have). Had it flushed and stored away for a about 2-ish years. Decided to go ahead and remove the section and check on the sac just in case.






I am curious about what was the typical sac size for a pen like this. It's 4.3in capped, 9mm thick, and the inner diameter of the nipple on the section where the sac goes is 4.6mm, the barrel's inner diameter is 7.9mm.



Debating using a PVC sac instead of latex, since the pen is all metal with the exception of the hard rubber section.

[Chrissy]

Have you already tried the FP sac size guide on Indy-Pen-Dance

There are some Wahl-Eversharp pen models on there.

[KBeezie]

Have you already tried the FP sac size guide on Indy-Pen-Dance

There are some Wahl-Eversharp pen models on there.

Seems to suggest #15 for "Metal pens, Nº 2 nib (ringtop, 3-3/4" long)", though mine is 4.3in (capped, or 3.16in from tail of barrel to neck of section), I suppose it could be roughly 3.75 to nib tip, though this one is a clip, but with a #2 nib.

A #15 sac which I have (from a TD repair kit) is considerably thinner than the original sac and a pretty loose fit inside of the barrel. But I'm guessing that originally they would have used thinner sacs as not to touch the walls of the pen.

[Chrissy]

It looks like your sac was quite thick as you can see the impression of the lever in it. I've not seen many sacs but it would seem to be counter productive for the lever to make such a heavy indentation into the sac.

[KBeezie]

It looks like your sac was quite thick as you can see the impression of the lever in it. I've not seen many sacs but it would seem to be counter productive for the lever to make such a heavy indentation into the sac.

That's a good point. I guess the previous owner wanted to try to maximize ink capacity, but in such a little pen there wasn't much of a point. Makes more sense for me to throw on a #15 (which I already happened to have a spare of just the right length to almost the end of the barrel) which should allow for some insulation between the walls and sac. The pressure bar is a straight bar with a bezel that slides over the lever (it rides the bezel as the bar gets pushed in). So this way the wall nor the bar are even touching until the lever is moved.

This course might explain why about 3 or so years ago in the winter during note taking the pen was prone to burping, with no insulation at all it wasn't much different than using an eye dropper with thin walls.

I'm just glad I took a look at the sac before deciding to ink it up again.

[Chrissy]

Sorry I get mixed up between levers and pressure bars, but you're right. It's the pressure bar part that's inside the pen pressing on the sac.

[KBeezie]

Sac'd with a #15 straight, talc'd and installed. Just letting it sit for the night and I'll mess with it tomorrow.

For a while the original #2 Wahl Semi-flex Needlepoint was sitting in a Conklin Crescent Filler.



But since I'm preparing to trade the C/F (with it's original firm-ish Fine nib) for a pretty baller (thick gold rolled cap band) Wahl BCHR pen, I decided to go ahead and put the nibs back in their original pens, Though I may put the needlepoint into the BCHR.

[guyy]

I’ve always used this:

https://www.pensacs.com/catalog-and-guide/

[KBeezie]

I’ve always used this:

https://www.pensacs.com/catalog-and-guide/

Which begs the question of what exactly is my pen? Because it uses a #2 nib, but neither sources linked specify any #2 nib sized pen with a clip.

Also the site you linked seems to be saying what is the maximum size sac you can install, not what is recommended or typical. For example that one says #20 for a Parker Challenger... which is *huge* for a little pen (and would be rather snug, but would fit).

[FredRydr]

You can start with the sac on the lists, but levers and pressure bars bend over time so that the space available in the barrel won't be the same today as it was when the pen was manufactured. Start with the recommended size sac and drop it into the barrel. If it gets hung up at all, go to the next smaller size. Continue until a sac drops in freely, and use that size. This is particularly important with metal barrels where heat from one's hand will transfer more readily to the sac and ink and cause burping. Of course, one could try to manipulate the lever and pressure bar back to the precise shapes they were when they came out of the factory, but I'm rarely motivated to go that far just to gain one or two sac sizes.

http://www.richardspens.com/ref/repair/sacs.htm

[Ron Z]

Sacs are measured in 64ths of an inch. So a #16 = 16/64 = 1/4". That's the outside diameter of the sac, so would be a snug fit on a 1/4" diameter sac nipple

Some consider this to be out of date, but I still on occasion check the size of a sac nipple using a dial caliper. I consider it a good place to start when I'm faced with an "unknown," though most repair people eventually develop a "calibrated eyeball," so can guess pretty accurately.

I like a snug fit on the sac nipple, so will measure the diameter and go from there. There are fractional calipers, both analog and digital, out there that are relatively inexpensive. General makes a plastic dial caliper, which I've seen at Lowes, so may be available in Canada. Harbor Freight sells a digital dial caliper, and Lowes may as well.

Convert the nipple diameter, which you said is 4.6mm, and it converts to 0.181" A #14, is .218" in diameter, so I think would be about right on the sac nipple of the pen. Check the fit. If its a snug fit on the sac nipple, and will slide in with talc on the sac, I'd use it.

[KBeezie]

You can start with the sac on the lists, but levers and pressure bars bend over time so that the space available in the barrel won't be the same today as it was when the pen was manufactured. Start with the recommended size sac and drop it into the barrel. If it gets hung up at all, go to the next smaller size. Continue until a sac drops in freely, and use that size. This is particularly important with metal barrels where heat from one's hand will transfer more readily to the sac and ink and cause burping. Of course, one could try to manipulate the lever and pressure bar back to the precise shapes they were when they came out of the factory, but I'm rarely motivated to go that far just to gain one or two sac sizes.

http://www.richardspens.com/ref/repair/sacs.htm

Definitely noted on the metal bodied pens being too snug to the barrel as I had that happen in the past with this little Wahl.

The pressure bar in this one was just pretty much a straight bar, no bendage or misshapen, has little bezels around the back side to slide onto the lever which has male bezels, so when you unlock the lever from the barrel, it'll push directly onto the pressure bar riding up and down those grooves in the side, with how rigid the bar is the whole thing just moves parallel.

Sacs are measured in 64ths of an inch. So a #16 = 16/64 = 1/4". That's the outside diameter of the sac, so would be a snug fit on a 1/4" diameter sac nipple

Some consider this to be out of date, but I still on occasion check the size of a sac nipple using a dial caliper. I consider it a good place to start when I'm faced with an "unknown," though most repair people eventually develop a "calibrated eyeball," so can guess pretty accurately.

I like a snug fit on the sac nipple, so will measure the diameter and go from there. There are fractional calipers, both analog and digital, out there that are relatively inexpensive. General makes a plastic dial caliper, which I've seen at Lowes, so may be available in Canada. Harbor Freight sells a digital dial caliper, and Lowes may as well.

Convert the nipple diameter, which you said is 4.6mm, and it converts to 0.181" A #14, is .218" in diameter, so I think would be about right on the sac nipple of the pen. Check the fit. If its a snug fit on the sac nipple, and will slide in with talc on the sac, I'd use it.

I'm using a digital caliper set that was around $35 a few years back from a tool and die manufacture that is local to me, has switches for in/cm with an inner diameter blades on top and good down to 0.01mm with a zero out button. Though I do have a cheapie plastic one around here somewhere too.

The #15 I put in has plenty of room in the barrel, and wasn't too tight on the nipple (which wasn't perfectly round, seemed a bit hand carved), #14 would have been too tight to get on, and #16 or #17 probably would have been ever so slightly smaller than the nipple diameter (but possibly at the same loose diameter too depending).

I got the pen sitting in the tray just letting it cure without a nib/feed in it at the moment as I'll await the new Wahl and decide if I want the semi-flex needlepoint in one, and the firm-ish fine in the other or vice versa.

[KBeezie]

It appears that in the gold metal pens, the sac was intended to fill the entire barrel (despite the heat transferring from the hand easier)

From their 1928 catalog

[azkid]

My Ringtop is too short to touch my hand except where I grip the section.

[KBeezie]

My Ringtop is too short to touch my hand except where I grip the section.

... then post it?

[azkid]

My Ringtop is too short to touch my hand except where I grip the section.

... then post it?

My point, tongue in cheek, was that heat cannot transfer to the barrel if the barrel isn't touching

[KBeezie]

Little follow up on this (since this does come up in search sometimes), late last year when I went to check on my sac after having done the re-sac near the beginning of this post, seems to have ruptured or changed.



The general consensus is that the sac stock I used was already aged a bit (probably came from the stock I got off fountain pen sacs company before they closed their shop (not to be confused with The Pen Sac company).

In any case, because it's a metal barrel and because it's an ebonite feed with nothing for the platicizer to attack, I went ahead and switched over to PVC.



Also took the opportunity to change out the nib with a Wahl #3 flex fine I found on a frankenpen, making this a Wahl 431A now which I can actually match up in the catalog.

Ended up doing the same PVC sac installation to this tiny little Wahl 214AW, both the 431A and 214AW are using the same sac size.

[MarcoA64]

I just resacced mine and used a #16 straight latex sac. Let's see how long it lasts :-)