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Thread: Grail brands not grail pens

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    Default Re: Grail brands not grail pens

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny_S View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny_S View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny_S View Post
    Just to put a spin on things, there is an argument for not having your grail pen, a little like marrying the perfect person, you stop looking after that. You can admire but that is as far as it goes.
    I've noticed this concept of a "grail" often being used and discussed. More often than not, its an object that has a legendary reputation, but is in short supply for those who want one. It's has caused me to question why something so esteemed are in such short supply. Is it because they have all be bought up or is it because few were manufactured? If you are making pens and the demand is good, you don't limit the supply by only making a few.

    In the case of the original "holy grail" there was only one and it's significance depends on hearsay and legend. I suspect that when applied to pens, many depend upon hearsay and legend rather than actual use. I would think that a person who considers a model or brand a "grail" would first have to have some sort of experience before making it their most desirable object for writing.

    I have been using pens for a long time now, measured in decades and my target or grail pen kept moving along. It was always a pen that I couldn't quite justify the cost compared to the benefit or pleasure that I might obtain. One of the oldest goals was a 60s 149 but I just put that on the back burner. Then I wanted a Vacumatic, then an Imperial Vac and then I wanted a sample of every Duovac. When I found a Duovac set in the original Active Service leather pouch I stopped that collecting arm.

    My new grail was old MBs but after I had bought a 139 I stopped that collection too.

    I admire Conids but only because of the design engineering behind them, not really a grail though.

    My original thought was finding your grail isn't neccesarily a good thing, I keep thinking, 'what now'.
    Maybe as long as you are asking “what now”, whatever it was was not your grail.

    I’m curious if you find a sought after pen easily if it’s as valued as if you searched for decades?
    These were my grail pens at the time, for example I had seen the Vacs on David I's site, I liked what I saw and waited until I could find the best example of the type that I could afford, sometimes doing a little trading for what I actually wanted, for example I picked up a '37 VACUMATIC pen, traded that for the Imp.

    I didn't say that I found the pens 'easily' it took a lot of networking, research and pen shows and saving up.

    I’m curious if you find a sought after pen easily if it’s as valued as if you searched for decades?




    I don't actually understand your point, are you being a little testy perhaps?
    Just thinking of the Holy Grail as a singular item that never changes.

    A pen of interest at a specific time wouldn’t fit the classic definition of a holy grail. Using your analogy of finding a person of interest and marrying them then no longer seeking another.

    Not being difficult, but paying attention to what people write and trying to understand why something is considered similar to the Holy Grail for them relative to fountain pens, or more broadly any point of interest.

  2. #42
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    Default Re: Grail brands not grail pens

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny_S View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny_S View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny_S View Post
    Just to put a spin on things, there is an argument for not having your grail pen, a little like marrying the perfect person, you stop looking after that. You can admire but that is as far as it goes.
    I've noticed this concept of a "grail" often being used and discussed. More often than not, its an object that has a legendary reputation, but is in short supply for those who want one. It's has caused me to question why something so esteemed are in such short supply. Is it because they have all be bought up or is it because few were manufactured? If you are making pens and the demand is good, you don't limit the supply by only making a few.

    In the case of the original "holy grail" there was only one and it's significance depends on hearsay and legend. I suspect that when applied to pens, many depend upon hearsay and legend rather than actual use. I would think that a person who considers a model or brand a "grail" would first have to have some sort of experience before making it their most desirable object for writing.

    I have been using pens for a long time now, measured in decades and my target or grail pen kept moving along. It was always a pen that I couldn't quite justify the cost compared to the benefit or pleasure that I might obtain. One of the oldest goals was a 60s 149 but I just put that on the back burner. Then I wanted a Vacumatic, then an Imperial Vac and then I wanted a sample of every Duovac. When I found a Duovac set in the original Active Service leather pouch I stopped that collecting arm.

    My new grail was old MBs but after I had bought a 139 I stopped that collection too.

    I admire Conids but only because of the design engineering behind them, not really a grail though.

    My original thought was finding your grail isn't neccesarily a good thing, I keep thinking, 'what now'.
    Maybe as long as you are asking “what now”, whatever it was was not your grail.

    I’m curious if you find a sought after pen easily if it’s as valued as if you searched for decades?
    These were my grail pens at the time, for example I had seen the Vacs on David I's site, I liked what I saw and waited until I could find the best example of the type that I could afford, sometimes doing a little trading for what I actually wanted, for example I picked up a '37 VACUMATIC pen, traded that for the Imp.

    I didn't say that I found the pens 'easily' it took a lot of networking, research and pen shows and saving up.

    I’m curious if you find a sought after pen easily if it’s as valued as if you searched for decades?




    I don't actually understand your point, are you being a little testy perhaps?
    Just thinking of the Holy Grail as a singular item that never changes.

    A pen of interest at a specific time wouldn’t fit the classic definition of a holy grail. Using your analogy of finding a person of interest and marrying them then no longer seeking another.

    Not being difficult, but paying attention to what people write and trying to understand why something is considered similar to the Holy Grail for them relative to fountain pens, or more broadly any point of interest.

    Ah OK.

    Well, yes you are right, if we treat the phrase grail pen quite literally the one and only, then I cannot say that this exists for me. having acheived a goal pen then I would probably move on at some point until I have covered all that I want and it is at that point that I would probably say 'what now'. I own or have owned all the pens I would like to own and use.

    Perhaps my Holy Grail pen could come in a six pack.

    I guess you are right, perhaps there are people who only ever have one grail pen in their lives, perhaps one of the pens that was given away by Ike, or signed a Declaration of Surrender, or used by a famous person, and then you get into that difficult world of provenance. I have a pen that was used by my great grandmother, but I cannot prove it.
    Last edited by Johnny_S; May 6th, 2020 at 11:17 AM.

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    Default Re: Grail brands not grail pens

    Quote Originally Posted by calamus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by VertOlive View Post
    Danitrio, specifically the Chinkin Seiryu. A true Grail for me, ie unobtainable, to be sought forever and glimpsed only in the distance.
    Ah, so then, would you say your quest for a Sailor Black Velvet Pro Gear is a sort of dalliance, as it were, along the way?
    With this pen, I still dare to hope!
    "Nolo esse salus sine vobis ...” —St. Augustine

  4. #44
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    Default Re: Grail brands not grail pens

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny_S View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny_S View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny_S View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny_S View Post
    Just to put a spin on things, there is an argument for not having your grail pen, a little like marrying the perfect person, you stop looking after that. You can admire but that is as far as it goes.
    I've noticed this concept of a "grail" often being used and discussed. More often than not, its an object that has a legendary reputation, but is in short supply for those who want one. It's has caused me to question why something so esteemed are in such short supply. Is it because they have all be bought up or is it because few were manufactured? If you are making pens and the demand is good, you don't limit the supply by only making a few.

    In the case of the original "holy grail" there was only one and it's significance depends on hearsay and legend. I suspect that when applied to pens, many depend upon hearsay and legend rather than actual use. I would think that a person who considers a model or brand a "grail" would first have to have some sort of experience before making it their most desirable object for writing.

    I have been using pens for a long time now, measured in decades and my target or grail pen kept moving along. It was always a pen that I couldn't quite justify the cost compared to the benefit or pleasure that I might obtain. One of the oldest goals was a 60s 149 but I just put that on the back burner. Then I wanted a Vacumatic, then an Imperial Vac and then I wanted a sample of every Duovac. When I found a Duovac set in the original Active Service leather pouch I stopped that collecting arm.

    My new grail was old MBs but after I had bought a 139 I stopped that collection too.

    I admire Conids but only because of the design engineering behind them, not really a grail though.

    My original thought was finding your grail isn't neccesarily a good thing, I keep thinking, 'what now'.
    Maybe as long as you are asking “what now”, whatever it was was not your grail.

    I’m curious if you find a sought after pen easily if it’s as valued as if you searched for decades?
    These were my grail pens at the time, for example I had seen the Vacs on David I's site, I liked what I saw and waited until I could find the best example of the type that I could afford, sometimes doing a little trading for what I actually wanted, for example I picked up a '37 VACUMATIC pen, traded that for the Imp.

    I didn't say that I found the pens 'easily' it took a lot of networking, research and pen shows and saving up.

    I’m curious if you find a sought after pen easily if it’s as valued as if you searched for decades?




    I don't actually understand your point, are you being a little testy perhaps?
    Just thinking of the Holy Grail as a singular item that never changes.

    A pen of interest at a specific time wouldn’t fit the classic definition of a holy grail. Using your analogy of finding a person of interest and marrying them then no longer seeking another.

    Not being difficult, but paying attention to what people write and trying to understand why something is considered similar to the Holy Grail for them relative to fountain pens, or more broadly any point of interest.

    Ah OK.

    Well, yes you are right, if we treat the phrase grail pen quite literally the one and only, then I cannot say that this exists for me. having acheived a goal pen then I would probably move on at some point until I have covered all that I want and it is at that point that I would probably say 'what now'. I own or have owned all the pens I would like to own and use.

    Perhaps my Holy Grail pen could come in a six pack.

    I guess you are right, perhaps there are people who only ever have one grail pen in their lives, perhaps one of the pens that was given away by Ike, or signed a Declaration of Surrender, or used by a famous person, and then you get into that difficult world of provenance. I have a pen that was used by my great grandmother, but I cannot prove it.
    Personally, I've always been drawn to a person deciding on a tool for their craft/art and because of their use, the tool becomes iconic. As an example, Willie Nelson's Martin N-20 with the electronics from his old Baldwin, Steinbeck's use of a Blackwing pencil, or Churchill's use of a Conway Stewart. This way the person owns the tool and not that the tool owns the person. For me this is a better definition of the Holy Grail since the cup's significance is how legend says used it and not the cup itself.

    As to your great grandmother's use of the fountain pen you own, I'd think if it was a part of her belongings and there is an indication it was within her proximity, she probably had occasion to use. Just enjoy it and let it remind you of her. What a nice connectivity to her you can share.

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