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Thread: Researching the history of internet FP forums

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    Senior Member Deb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Researching the history of internet FP forums

    I was active in Lion & Pen for a while. It was, perhaps, the most scholarly of the pen boards, at least where US pens were concerned. Politics destroyed it which was a great loss.
    I contributed to alt.collecting.pens-pencils too but I had more fun in alt.tasteless.
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    Default Re: Researching the history of internet FP forums

    I went over to Pentrace once ISPs stopped providing usenet. Pentrace was once much more active than it is now. I can’t remember what bunched everyone’s knickers about pentrace. All i remember is that a lot of people were all of a sudden all at FPN and some other places.

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    Senior Member Deb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Researching the history of internet FP forums

    Isn't it the case that Pentrace doesn't archive?
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    Default Re: Researching the history of internet FP forums

    Quote Originally Posted by guyy View Post
    I went over to Pentrace once ISPs stopped providing usenet. Pentrace was once much more active than it is now. I can’t remember what bunched everyone’s knickers about pentrace. All i remember is that a lot of people were all of a sudden all at FPN and some other places.

    There were a lot of bickering arguments on Pentrace, but these same people started arguing on FPN.

    The last time I went on alt.collecting it had a virus which froze my computer, nothing worked at all apart from the on-off button, I was on a work computer which was embarassing, I had to bring our IT people in who traced the virus to a University in either Aberdeen or Inverness, I forget which. Click on the link at your peril.

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    Senior Member guyy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Researching the history of internet FP forums

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny_S View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by guyy View Post
    I went over to Pentrace once ISPs stopped providing usenet. Pentrace was once much more active than it is now. I can’t remember what bunched everyone’s knickers about pentrace. All i remember is that a lot of people were all of a sudden all at FPN and some other places.

    There were a lot of bickering arguments on Pentrace, but these same people started arguing on FPN.
    I know right. Ridiculous.

    I never took to that place, perhaps for that reason. Not the arguments, mind you— i like a good argument as much as the next person — but rather, the dishonest disavowal of argument.

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    Senior Member guyy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Researching the history of internet FP forums

    Yes, it’s correct that Pentrace doesn’t archive. The interface is a bit clunky, too. It’s best viewed with the lynx browser. (I’m only somewhat joking.)

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    Default Re: Researching the history of internet FP forums

    Quote Originally Posted by Deb View Post
    I was active in Lion & Pen for a while. It was, perhaps, the most scholarly of the pen boards, at least where US pens were concerned. Politics destroyed it which was a great loss.
    As I recall, L&P was established to allow posting and preservation of FP research. Some of the more scholarly folks shared their information and resources. To the casual user, some of the discussions were very narrowly focused but we're the place to go for following what was "official" and what was off catalog production. As you've gathered by now, the focus primarily vintage.

    Being neither scholarly nor connected in the FP community, I never heard exactly why the plug was pulled. I do remember the reaction to the loss of so much information. Several of those originally involved in that site reached far back into the FP scene, and don't seem to be active anymore.

    You can still find some of the in depth information on David Nishimura's site.

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    Default Re: Researching the history of internet FP forums

    There are a couple of L&P contributors still around. At least one has the site backed up. The site owner held a particular viewpoint (of US politics) very strongly and liked to use the site to attack those of an opposing view. He took that too far in attacking an individual (now deceased) who was held in some regard in the pen world. The owner was severely criticised by many of us for his action and decided to close the site in what can only be described as a towering huff.

    The pen discussions in L&P were of a very high quality, unmatched anywhere else, though David Isaacson's FPnuts was very good and surprisingly free of Mr. Isaacson's endless arguments that he conducted elsewhere.
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    Default Re: Researching the history of internet FP forums

    Slight sideways thread deviation: this post brings up a host of old-time names, friction in the FP world, and even a couple pre-internet FP sources.

    http://fountainpenhistory.blogspot.c...matic-pfc.html

    Am I remembering correctly that Dr. I was "He who cannot be named" on one, if not two, sites?


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    Default Re: Researching the history of internet FP forums

    Quote Originally Posted by kazoolaw View Post
    Slight sideways thread deviation: this post brings up a host of old-time names, friction in the FP world, and even a couple pre-internet FP sources.

    http://fountainpenhistory.blogspot.c...matic-pfc.html

    Am I remembering correctly that Dr. I was "He who cannot be named" on one, if not two, sites?

    This is an excellent resource! That site will take some time to research.

    As I finished the article the name "George Kovalenko" struck a cord. I checked my archives and found he is one of the few people that have written (or whose accounts have survived) about the history of FP forums. Here is a post from FPN which is very interesting:

    First some facts.

    FPN was started in late-June 2004. This is the earliest post I could find here, message #5. But FPN wasn't archived on the Wayback Machine until Feb 13, 2005. This is what it looked like back then. FPN was started, partially, as an alternative to all the strife going on at Pentrace, mostly caused by people like David Isaacson and his enablers and apologists. Here's an early message on the topic.

    L&P was started in late-May 2005 and was first archived on the Wayback Machine on Oct 26, 2005. Here's what it looked like back then. It was started basically as a private preserve for Rob Astyk to play in with impunity. He had been banned from practically every other message board, except Pentrace, and Ron Dutcher set up L&P as Rob's personal blogspot, or soapbox. I was there as a moderator and advisor, not an admin, when it was first started up, and I fought desperately to keep the Chatter, Politics, and Religion forums off the website, but that was the real reason-for-being for the site, and I lost out. It was also the reason I finally left the post of moderator.

    And that's the problem with David Isaacson's message board, too. It was started basically as a private preserve for him to play in with impunity. It's nothing more than a glorified personal soapbox and unofficial blogspot. He has been banned from every pen message board he has ever participated in except Zoss, and he's drawing a fine line there as well. He wasn't getting enough attention on his real blog, or rather, enough traffic, so he tried for something with a bit more legitimacy in this new message board. If you suffer from repetition compulsion, and you like abuse, then you're his perfect match. But don't fool yourself. He'll pull the same antics over there as well. How long will it be before he is banned from his own website? ;~) Just look at what pen2paper wrote above. Her inquiry over there for gathering core references was "met with jest". Sure, he can stack up all the high-powered advisors and moderators that he can persuade to join, but it's still doomed to fail for the same reason that L&P failed. It's not the moderators and advisors that count. It's the admin.

    So here we are. This is the state of affairs. We currently have about 6 or 7 fragmented and dissociated message boards, and no real central home for pen history. It truly is a dysfunctional family. Here's a metaphoric group portrait of the pen-collecting community. I'm the little, peripheral ninja guy up in the upper right corner, just barely peaking into the picture...;~)

    George Kovalenko.


    PS: I couldn't get the links to work (these are underlined in the text above) so if any one would like to reference the original source materials and sources they should check out the original post:
    http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/fo...ood/?p=1632275

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    Default Re: Researching the history of internet FP forums

    And talking about FP forum history, this is FPGeeks main page as it appeared on April 7, 2010:

    FPG-april7-2010.png

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    Default Re: Researching the history of internet FP forums

    I was a member of Isaacson's Fpnuts from its inception until it faded out when he moved to Facebook. I think there might have been a couple of occasions when he launched into one of his well-known diatribes or never-ending arguments - if you can call what he does arguing. For the rest of the time he behaved surprisingly well, allowed debate to run uninterrupted and, in all, did a fine job. Nobody knows better than me how obnoxious he can be and almost always is but credit where credit's due, he made Fpnuts the place to go for serious pen discussion and sharing of information, free from the nagging of the sturmbannfuhrers of FPN. I don't know how he behaves in the Facebook version. I don't go there.
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    Default Re: Researching the history of internet FP forums

    Quote Originally Posted by Deb View Post
    I was a member of Isaacson's Fpnuts from its inception until it faded out when he moved to Facebook. I think there might have been a couple of occasions when he launched into one of his well-known diatribes or never-ending arguments - if you can call what he does arguing. For the rest of the time he behaved surprisingly well, allowed debate to run uninterrupted and, in all, did a fine job. Nobody knows better than me how obnoxious he can be and almost always is but credit where credit's due, he made Fpnuts the place to go for serious pen discussion and sharing of information, free from the nagging of the sturmbannfuhrers of FPN. I don't know how he behaves in the Facebook version. I don't go there.

    I had to look up sturmbannfuhrers thinking that it meant barnstormers and therefore I couldn't get the context, in case you are as dumb as I am it is a reference to a Nazi SS military rank equivalent to Major and prone to shock tactics.

    I saw evidence of that line of thinking on FPN today, on this particular day when the entire World is looking at Minneapolis I saw one FPN poster saying that they were going to use a black pen and then reflect on the world as they completed their journal. That post lasted all of 5 minutes until FPNer Praxim complained and had it taken down because he thought it was political.

    Good ol' FPN, the grey porridge of pen sites.

    I have only had one interraction with Isaacson, someone I knew had a big early Parker collection to sell as one job lot, it would have needed deep pockets to do the deal. I put the two in touch, I have to say the he was civil to me, and appreciative.

    I know that he had a big bust up with Wim on FPN and saw the revenge porn links that Isaacson made for Vacumania links from FPN - they were bad links and contained images that you would not want on your hard drive - but I never understood the issues behind the bust up.
    Last edited by Fermata; June 2nd, 2020 at 10:31 AM.

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  23. #34
    Senior Member Deb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Researching the history of internet FP forums

    Quote Originally Posted by Fermata View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Deb View Post
    I was a member of Isaacson's Fpnuts from its inception until it faded out when he moved to Facebook. I think there might have been a couple of occasions when he launched into one of his well-known diatribes or never-ending arguments - if you can call what he does arguing. For the rest of the time he behaved surprisingly well, allowed debate to run uninterrupted and, in all, did a fine job. Nobody knows better than me how obnoxious he can be and almost always is but credit where credit's due, he made Fpnuts the place to go for serious pen discussion and sharing of information, free from the nagging of the sturmbannfuhrers of FPN. I don't know how he behaves in the Facebook version. I don't go there.

    I had to look up sturmbannfuhrers thinking that it meant barnstormers and therefore I couldn't get the context, in case you are as dumb as I am it is a reference to a Nazi SS military rank equivalent to Major and prone to shock tactics.

    I saw evidence of that line of thinking on FPN today, on this particular day when the entire World is looking at Minneapolis I saw one FPN poster saying that they were going to use a black pen and then reflect on the world as they completed their journal. That post lasted all of 5 minutes until FPNer Praxim complained and had it taken down because he thought it was political.

    Good ol' FPN, the grey porridge of pen sites.

    I have only had one interraction with Isaacson, someone I knew had a big early Parker collection to sell as one job lot, it would have needed deep pockets to do the deal. I put the two in touch, I have to say the he was civil to me, and appreciative.

    I know that he had a big bust up with Wim on FPN and saw the revenge porn links that Isaacson made for Vacumania links from FPN but I never understood the issues behind the bust up.
    In truth, though he can be civil - who can't - Dr Isaacson is an unutterable wretch. As noted above, he's been kicked out of just about everywhere for his bullying and disruptive behaviour. I was really reporting my surprise about how well he handled his pen board. I expected him to revert to type at any moment but it didn't happen. He reported on at least one collection he bought a few years ago. Perhaps that was it. The grey porridge of pen sites - that is so good!
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    Default Re: Researching the history of internet FP forums

    That Dr. dude was an ass to me once, so I never went back. Like off the handle rude. Whatever.

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    Default Re: Researching the history of internet FP forums

    Also today on that Stepford site there’s a thread where folks are patting themselves on the back for being there and noting how happy everyone is.

    —Yum yum Mr Mod we sure do love us some grey porridge! Please continue to eliminate flavoring agents!
    — Shut up & keep slurpin’ or i’ll send you packin’.

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    Default Re: Researching the history of internet FP forums

    Hey I like FPN just fine. I post there way more often, actually (requires heavy use of adblocker, though). But this place has its own charm. Mostly.

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    Default Re: Researching the history of internet FP forums

    My main issue with FPN is that they disappear my posts for mysterious reasons. The posts seem innocuous enough to me. I just assume that they get pruned in the interests of thread management, for flow and so that the desired storyline comes through. Once i saw that happening, i couldn’t trust what i read over there. How much gets edited out?

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    Default Re: Researching the history of internet FP forums

    Quote Originally Posted by guyy View Post
    How much gets edited out?
    Dunno. On pen-related information, facts, suggestions, procedures...very little. On opinion threads, more. When I need crowd-source info, I go there. Not many active posters here, really.

    I have been very critical of FPN on FPN and I have always been tolerated. I follow the rules about generalizations and ad hominem attacks. I have had a few posts removed. I have deserved it each time. I have been critical of some of my experiences with pens. Again, just follow the rules. I don't feel muzzled at all because they only curtail me when I am generalizing beyond the facts of my experience.


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    Default Re: Researching the history of internet FP forums

    Mob mentality exists on both sites. Over there it's the mods, here it's the members. Human nature I suppose.
    The thing is, we're all pretty on edge at the moment. It would be great if people could be considerate of others in these matters. Not much else will change the situation beyond that. - Jon Szanto

    Why can’t people read responses to glean the intent and ideas being offered, instead of focusing on things like tone, length and perceived agendas? - Jon Szanto

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