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Thread: How do American retailers stay in business?!

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    Default Re: How do American retailers stay in business?!

    It's funny what's considered cheap beer. In my teenage drinking days, cheap beer was PBR, Dixie, Oertels 92, Falstaff, and Carling, while Bud, Miller, Schlitz, and Lowenbrau were considered premium.

    Now, craft beer is the big thing, but since there's now a craft beer maker on every other corner, that market's become saturated and with the pandemic, many are closing never to reopen.

    That type of cycle is true about pens as well. All these pen makers are chasing a fairly small market with a new "Master Pen Craftsman" appearing by the dozens weekly selling acrylics, resins, and other plastics with JoWo nibs for 200-300 dollars a pop. And for the most part, they all look alike and write alike. It's like a fashion show where each spring"'New and Exciting" pens pop up and then disappear by summer only to be replaced by the next "New and Exciting" pen. Yawn.

    While Montblanc, Pelikan, Sailor, Pilot, and others with longevity and a tried-and-true process continue to make money.

    It used to be that kit pens were hot with a certain crowd; now there are so many kit pens available at every flea and farmer's market that look tacky with the sellers all using the same cheap kit that a Bic ballpoint looks good by comparison. And those kit pens are priced for relative big bucks compared to a used vintage pen from the 40s-50s that are actually good.

    But never let it be said that good taste runs rampant in America. If it did, Fiat would have never come back as the pathetic auto maker it is.
    Last edited by sgphoto; May 12th, 2020 at 01:33 PM.

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    Default Re: How do American retailers stay in business?!

    Quote Originally Posted by sgphoto View Post
    But never let it be said that good taste runs rampant in America.
    Hey, I resemble that remark.



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    Default Re: How do American retailers stay in business?!

    Quote Originally Posted by AzJon View Post
    By all definitions is certainly is. Most brewers have a great deal of respect for the Bud/Miller/Coors facilities.
    Of course. Let's not turn a joke into a debate.

    Was it Aristotle who said, all argument is a definition of terms?





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    Default Re: How do American retailers stay in business?!

    Quote Originally Posted by AzJon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Bud Lite isn't beer!!!LOL!!!!!
    By all definitions is certainly is. Most brewers have a great deal of respect for the Bud/Miller/Coors facilities. The ability to make billions of gallons of the same product every year is nothing to smirk at. Besides, I would reach for a cold fizzy Coors over a White Claw each and every time.

    All that is besides the point: the cheap swill on draft is often what makes a bar its money, be it Coors or Carlsberg.

    I did include LOL!! I was sponsoring a team builder at a local establishment with a very wide selection of beer offerings. One of our employees ordered a Bud Lite and the bartender asked if she was serious.

    Tastes evolve. Once you've had a good cup of coffee, your taste buds are never the same. That said, some folks evolve and some stay with the girl that brung them.

    There was a time when Coors was not available East of Fort Smith Arkansas. My manager gave me $20 and asked me to bring some back. I admit that in 1975 Coors sure tasted fine. Today a good inexpensive beer, for me, is PBR.
    Last edited by Chuck Naill; May 12th, 2020 at 05:01 PM.

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    Default Re: How do American retailers stay in business?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Szanto View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by calamus View Post
    I've heard and even used worse language, but I think there's something sordid about the presence of that sort of profanity on a forum that's not primarily a hangout for say, punk rockers or people with Tourette's Syndrome.
    As the largest portion of my musical career has been a 44-year stint in a major symphony orchestra, including performances in Carnegie Hall, I completely fail at being your image of a punk rocker, though I did sit in with Pearl Jam one night. Then again, I don't really care: I've written at length and with careful crafting in manners that are far more genteel and refined than you are willing to give me credit for. If the use of one word is so offensive to you, after decades and decades of this kind of puritanical nonsense being slapped down for what it is (i.e. puritanical nonsense), I can't help you. Language, like any of the communicative arts, can embrace a very wide continuum of expressive tools. To restrict descriptors to bland, mundane and inoffensive examples of locution is a fate worse than death for anyone who loves the combination of language and passionate expression.

    As of today, over 81,000 people have perished in our nation from a pandemic, and someone on the internet is worried about a 4-letter word that has been utilized for over four centuries. I remain amazed by the human species.


    Please explain again how the deaths of 81,000 people gives you some sort of moral superiority over me. Your chain of logic seems to be missing a few links.
    Last edited by calamus; May 13th, 2020 at 01:09 PM.
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    Default Re: How do American retailers stay in business?!

    https://www.facebook.com/NowThisPoli...9892997989759/

    Something to think about.

    There's been a lot of aggressive posts over the last few weeks. Normally there wouldn't be much time to read this site too closely, but as I am stuck in the beyond, twiddling my opposables while waiting for instructions on the next move, I've read enough to think this is perhaps becoming a toxic place - much like many other corner of the internet. Even under the circumstances of the present crisis it is disappointing to see this kind of antagonism in what should be (in my thoughts at least) a genteel hobby.
    Last edited by Dave; May 13th, 2020 at 01:25 PM.

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    Default Re: How do American retailers stay in business?!

    Quote Originally Posted by calamus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Szanto View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by calamus View Post
    I've heard and even used worse language, but I think there's something sordid about the presence of that sort of profanity on a forum that's not primarily a hangout for say, punk rockers or people with Tourette's Syndrome.
    As the largest portion of my musical career has been a 44-year stint in a major symphony orchestra, including performances in Carnegie Hall, I completely fail at being your image of a punk rocker, though I did sit in with Pearl Jam one night. Then again, I don't really care: I've written at length and with careful crafting in manners that are far more genteel and refined than you are willing to give me credit for. If the use of one word is so offensive to you, after decades and decades of this kind of puritanical nonsense being slapped down for what it is (i.e. puritanical nonsense), I can't help you. Language, like any of the communicative arts, can embrace a very wide continuum of expressive tools. To restrict descriptors to bland, mundane and inoffensive examples of locution is a fate worse than death for anyone who loves the combination of language and passionate expression.

    As of today, over 81,000 people have perished in our nation from a pandemic, and someone on the internet is worried about a 4-letter word that has been utilized for over four centuries. I remain amazed by the human species.


    Please explain again how the deaths of 81,000 people gives you some sort of moral superiority over me. Your chain of logic seems to be missing a few links.
    It wasn't "moral superiority" that was being expressed. It was a piqued reaction to your sanctimony around language, music, and a mental impairment.

    Partly what this whole COVID thing has done is to warp our vision and our reading of other people's messaging. So many times I see what I consider to be misreadings of posts, and I chalk it up to the generalized increase of stress and worry these days. For example, why you would even think to criticize an adult's use of "fuck" as in "flying fuck" in a non-pen thread on an unmoderated site is beyond me. And that you would use Tourette's Syndrome as part of your criticism is really questionable, worse than even saying "fuck you" in my book (which is not what Jon did).

    But, maybe I have misread your intent and you meant to compliment both punk rockers and those persons who struggle with Tourette's. I mean, I am stressed out, too.

    So, if I am reading you wrong, I apologize. If I am not, I don't, and you should. And that is not "moral superiority." I'm a teacher, and insensitivity to human impairments really sticks in my craw. I give a flying fuck about that.

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    Default Re: How do American retailers stay in business?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AzJon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Bud Lite isn't beer!!!LOL!!!!!
    By all definitions is certainly is. Most brewers have a great deal of respect for the Bud/Miller/Coors facilities. The ability to make billions of gallons of the same product every year is nothing to smirk at. Besides, I would reach for a cold fizzy Coors over a White Claw each and every time.

    All that is besides the point: the cheap swill on draft is often what makes a bar its money, be it Coors or Carlsberg.

    I did include LOL!! I was sponsoring a team builder at a local establishment with a very wide selection of beer offerings. One of our employees ordered a Bud Lite and the bartender asked if she was serious.

    Tastes evolve. Once you've had a good cup of coffee, your taste buds are never the same. That said, some folks evolve and some stay with the girl that brung them.

    There was a time when Coors was not available East of Fort Smith Arkansas. My manager gave me $20 and asked me to bring some back. I admit that in 1975 Coors sure tasted fine. Today a good inexpensive beer, for me, is PBR.
    That's fair. I'll still grab a PBR here and there. For reference, I worked in a homebrew shop for years and started brewing 15 years ago. Sometimes you just don't want a 7% monster IPA. I've had more bad IPAs than not. A lot of brewers use hops as a pushup bra for their sloppy brew techniques or bad flavors. Now we cram fruit into them as well. Equally revolting, imo.

    I suppose my coffee and wine preference has increased over time, while my choice of beer has waned to more simple brews.

    Unrelated note, but many years ago I was friends with one of the ancestors of the artist that drew the original Coors waterfall. I also just grab coors as a regional thing to these parts.

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    Default Re: How do American retailers stay in business?!

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by calamus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Szanto View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by calamus View Post
    I've heard and even used worse language, but I think there's something sordid about the presence of that sort of profanity on a forum that's not primarily a hangout for say, punk rockers or people with Tourette's Syndrome.
    As the largest portion of my musical career has been a 44-year stint in a major symphony orchestra, including performances in Carnegie Hall, I completely fail at being your image of a punk rocker, though I did sit in with Pearl Jam one night. Then again, I don't really care: I've written at length and with careful crafting in manners that are far more genteel and refined than you are willing to give me credit for. If the use of one word is so offensive to you, after decades and decades of this kind of puritanical nonsense being slapped down for what it is (i.e. puritanical nonsense), I can't help you. Language, like any of the communicative arts, can embrace a very wide continuum of expressive tools. To restrict descriptors to bland, mundane and inoffensive examples of locution is a fate worse than death for anyone who loves the combination of language and passionate expression.

    As of today, over 81,000 people have perished in our nation from a pandemic, and someone on the internet is worried about a 4-letter word that has been utilized for over four centuries. I remain amazed by the human species.


    Please explain again how the deaths of 81,000 people gives you some sort of moral superiority over me. Your chain of logic seems to be missing a few links.
    It wasn't "moral superiority" that was being expressed. It was a piqued reaction to your sanctimony around language, music, and a mental impairment.

    Partly what this whole COVID thing has done is to warp our vision and our reading of other people's messaging. So many times I see what I consider to be misreadings of posts, and I chalk it up to the generalized increase of stress and worry these days. For example, why you would even think to criticize an adult's use of "fuck" as in "flying fuck" in a non-pen thread on an unmoderated site is beyond me. And that you would use Tourette's Syndrome as part of your criticism is really questionable, worse than even saying "fuck you" in my book (which is not what Jon did).

    But, maybe I have misread your intent and you meant to compliment both punk rockers and those persons who struggle with Tourette's. I mean, I am stressed out, too.

    So, if I am reading you wrong, I apologize. If I am not, I don't, and you should. And that is not "moral superiority." I'm a teacher, and insensitivity to human impairments really sticks in my craw. I give a flying fuck about that.

    Sent from my Moto E (4) using Tapatalk
    Sanctimonious? Really? Probably it would be closer to the truth to say that despite the best efforts of the enlightened and the woke to doggedly strive to lower the bar of common decency, I fail to respond to their attempts at social engineering.
    Quid rides? Mutato nomine de te fabula narratur. — Horace
    (What are you laughing at? Just change the name and the joke’s on you.)

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    Default Re: How do American retailers stay in business?!

    Quote Originally Posted by calamus View Post

    Sanctimonious? Really? Probably it would be closer to the truth to say that despite the best efforts of the enlightened and the woke to doggedly strive to lower the bar of common decency, I fail to respond to their attempts at social engineering.
    Again, you're the one who made the Tourette's remark. Swearing is indecent, but handicap jokes are decent?

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    Default Re: How do American retailers stay in business?!

    sooo... apparently diamine inks here are 15 bucks in the US but 5 bucks in europe.....

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    Default Re: How do American retailers stay in business?!

    Quote Originally Posted by NobleSixSeven View Post
    sooo... apparently diamine inks here are 15 bucks in the US but 5 bucks in europe.....
    And a pair of Levi's will set you back €90. What's your point? You finally learn about differences in global pricing due to imports and mandated MSRPs?

    If you don't like the pricing, get it elsewhere or, conversely, open your own shop and show all these other brick and mortar folks how cheaply you can sell pen gear and turn a profit.

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    Default Re: How do American retailers stay in business?!

    Quote Originally Posted by AzJon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NobleSixSeven View Post
    sooo... apparently diamine inks here are 15 bucks in the US but 5 bucks in europe.....
    And a pair of Levi's will set you back €90. What's your point? You finally learn about differences in global pricing due to imports and mandated MSRPs?

    If you don't like the pricing, get it elsewhere or, conversely, open your own shop and show all these other brick and mortar folks how cheaply you can sell pen gear and turn a profit.
    LOL you seem particularly butt-hurt whenever I point out instances about things being less expensive in europe. So what?? So buy it from europe. Thats what I'm doing now. LOL why would I open up a shop to buy inks? Take a chill pill man.

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    Default Re: How do American retailers stay in business?!

    Quote Originally Posted by NobleSixSeven View Post
    So what??
    Only took a few pages, but we’ve arrived at the answer to the original post.

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    Default Re: How do American retailers stay in business?!

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NobleSixSeven View Post
    So what??
    Only took a few pages, but we’ve arrived at the answer to the original post.
    Bingo.

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    Default Re: How do American retailers stay in business?!

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NobleSixSeven View Post
    So what??
    Only took a few pages, but we’ve arrived at the answer to the original post.
    If "so what" is the answer we can finally shut down the forum since for some these discussions matter little and they have no interest at all. For someone to post "so what" the motivation is just to increase their post count. No disrespect intended, just an observation.

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    Default Re: How do American retailers stay in business?!

    Quote Originally Posted by guyy View Post
    Sociological and economic research say otherwise. When even pro-business publications and think tanks acknowledge that class mobility in the US barely exists, some anecdotes from a guy hawking make-a-million books is not convincing.

    This really isn’t the place for such a debate, in part because we’re off topic, but also because if you’re really serious about making millions through abstinence, you’re not buying fountain pens.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NobleSixSeven View Post
    So what??
    Only took a few pages, but we’ve arrived at the answer to the original post.
    If "so what" is the answer we can finally shut down the forum since for some these discussions matter little and they have no interest at all. For someone to post "so what" the motivation is just to increase their post count. No disrespect intended, just an observation.
    An astute observation at that

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NobleSixSeven View Post
    So what??
    Only took a few pages, but we’ve arrived at the answer to the original post.
    Actually we didn't. The question was how do they plan on staying in business when european retailers are severely undercutting them on price. "so what" doesnt apply to the question at hand.

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    Default Re: How do American retailers stay in business?!

    Don't most retailers purchase wholesale from a wholesaler or importer? I believe that the wholesaler or importer probably sets a retail price range in order to stay in the good graces of the manufacturer. My wife and I had a small business for a while and our hands were somewhat tied with the prices we set on certain goods by either the manufacturer/wholesaler or the dictates of the market. We saw the same items we were selling for sale from overseas sellers for less than we paid wholesale costs. We were strictly a mom and pop shop and had no employees to pay or overhead (strictly home based), so weren't really trying to make much money. Guess it comes down to service at the point of sale and after the sale.
    I've purchased pens from Endless Pens for much less than the going retail and would do that again if I wanted a new pen. I, however, have some loyalty with Goulet as I purchased items within the first month of them opening and have occasionally continued to buy small items but never any higher dollar pens.
    I use a fountain pen and a paper planner - paperinkplan.wordpress.com

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    Default Re: How do American retailers stay in business?!

    Quote Originally Posted by NobleSixSeven View Post

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NobleSixSeven View Post
    So what??
    Only took a few pages, but we’ve arrived at the answer to the original post.
    If "so what" is the answer we can finally shut down the forum since for some these discussions matter little and they have no interest at all. For someone to post "so what" the motivation is just to increase their post count. No disrespect intended, just an observation.
    An astute observation at that

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NobleSixSeven View Post
    So what??
    Only took a few pages, but we’ve arrived at the answer to the original post.
    Actually we didn't. The question was how do they plan on staying in business when european retailers are severely undercutting them on price. "so what" doesnt apply to the question at hand.
    There is no question "at hand", other than a rhetorical one. You've spent the majority of the thread arguing against or outright dismissing people's responses, ignoring the most pertinent aspects. So "so what" pretty much does apply at this point. Unfortunately you were given the benefit of the doubt initially. Lesson learned.

    And for Chuck, not sure who you're referring to about increasing post count. If it's me, you suck at math. ~600 posts in 6 years. You're halfway there in under a year. So yeah, somebody does seem interested in paying attention to post counts... :/ But more to the point, the "now we can shut down the forum" point is banal. There are plenty of worthwhile threads on the forum. This just isn't one of them.

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    Default Re: How do American retailers stay in business?!

    Quote Originally Posted by guyy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NobleSixSeven View Post

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Szanto View Post

    Some people are born into it, some marry into it. Most of those people likely don't give a flying fuck about how much they spend.
    I'd wager that those people are a small minority in the millionaire category, even smaller minority of them being fountain pen owners. But then again, if you read what is said ("become" millionaires), it would exclude those born into it.
    Then again, most wealthy people were born into it. Frugality has very little to do with class mobility. I’m all for saving a few bucks on a fountain but it’s not going to make me rich.
    Quote Originally Posted by Runnin_Ute View Post
    The Pelikan distributor in the US, Chartpak is the one who puts a very large markup in place, which forces the US based retailer (who must buy from Chartpak) to adjust their pricing upwards to make a reasonable profit. And like someone mentioned, they can't discount to heavily with repercussions. The dealers can't buy directly from Pelikan.

    Joshua of The Pelikans Perch blog has done extensive research on this topic and published a very good article on it. Http://thepelikansperch.com


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    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NobleSixSeven View Post

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NobleSixSeven View Post
    So what??
    Only took a few pages, but we’ve arrived at the answer to the original post.
    If "so what" is the answer we can finally shut down the forum since for some these discussions matter little and they have no interest at all. For someone to post "so what" the motivation is just to increase their post count. No disrespect intended, just an observation.
    An astute observation at that

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NobleSixSeven View Post
    So what??
    Only took a few pages, but we’ve arrived at the answer to the original post.
    Actually we didn't. The question was how do they plan on staying in business when european retailers are severely undercutting them on price. "so what" doesnt apply to the question at hand.
    There is no question "at hand", other than a rhetorical one. You've spent the majority of the thread arguing against or outright dismissing people's responses, ignoring the most pertinent aspects. So "so what" pretty much does apply at this point. Unfortunately you were given the benefit of the doubt initially. Lesson learned.

    And for Chuck, not sure who you're referring to about increasing post count. If it's me, you suck at math. ~600 posts in 6 years. You're halfway there in under a year. So yeah, somebody does seem interested in paying attention to post counts... :/ But more to the point, the "now we can shut down the forum" point is banal. There are plenty of worthwhile threads on the forum. This just isn't one of them.
    See, if you read the first post, it asks the question, as opposed to implying a rhetorical one. I've dismissed our countered other points made because theyre weak arguments. The only reasonable one I have heard is the customer service aspect in case returns need to be made. Ive responded and quoted almost every single poster who responded, so clearly I am not ignoring anyone, but feel free to imagine things.

    I think at this point, its probably better for us to not engage in this thread since its going to devolve into flaming. Good day, sir.

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