Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 30

Thread: Iron Gall Inks

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    290
    Thanks
    469
    Thanked 311 Times in 147 Posts
    Rep Power
    5

    Default Iron Gall Inks

    I'm looking for iron gall inks in addition to my current ones.

    I have five of the KWZ brand, the R&K Salix and Scabiosa, and ESSRI. All have performed wonderfully, most have very nice shading and sheen on Tomoe paper, and I've experienced no problems in my pens, whether eyedropper, converter, or piston-fill.

    Other than the Diamine Registrar's Ink, are there other brands?

    These will not be used in vintage pens with sacs or older piston-fill pens that aren't easily cleaned.

    Thanks for any suggestions.

    Cheers,
    Sg

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    1,712
    Thanks
    4,741
    Thanked 4,642 Times in 1,129 Posts
    Rep Power
    12

    Default Re: Iron Gall Inks

    Platinum Classic inks

  3. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to catbert For This Useful Post:

    Ahriman4891 (May 14th, 2020), sgphoto (May 14th, 2020)

  4. #3
    Senior Member carlos.q's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    On a hill in Puerto Rico
    Posts
    1,697
    Thanks
    2,214
    Thanked 1,813 Times in 794 Posts
    Rep Power
    12

    Default Re: Iron Gall Inks

    Pelikan 4001 Blue-Black has IG. If you are really lucky you can still get a bottle of MB Blue-Black with IG.

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to carlos.q For This Useful Post:

    sgphoto (May 14th, 2020)

  6. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    1,712
    Thanks
    4,741
    Thanked 4,642 Times in 1,129 Posts
    Rep Power
    12

    Default Re: Iron Gall Inks

    Quote Originally Posted by carlos.q View Post
    Pelikan 4001 Blue-Black has IG. If you are really lucky you can still get a bottle of MB Blue-Black with IG.
    Older Lamy blue-black too, I think?

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to catbert For This Useful Post:

    sgphoto (May 14th, 2020)

  8. #5
    Senior Member carlos.q's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    On a hill in Puerto Rico
    Posts
    1,697
    Thanks
    2,214
    Thanked 1,813 Times in 794 Posts
    Rep Power
    12

    Default Re: Iron Gall Inks

    Quote Originally Posted by catbert View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by carlos.q View Post
    Pelikan 4001 Blue-Black has IG. If you are really lucky you can still get a bottle of MB Blue-Black with IG.
    Older Lamy blue-black too, I think?
    I forgot about that one! I guess it should be as difficult to find as MB Blue-Black with IG....

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to carlos.q For This Useful Post:

    sgphoto (May 14th, 2020)

  10. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    369
    Thanks
    115
    Thanked 247 Times in 125 Posts
    Rep Power
    11

    Default Re: Iron Gall Inks

    I like Pelikan 4001 Blue-Black in this category. Vintage sac and piston-filler pens are actually some of the best candidates because they were often made when pens were expected to work with fountain pen (not dip pen) inks having an iron call component (and old, flexible 14k nib is the classic companion to a traditional iron gall fountain pen ink).

  11. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Ray-VIgo For This Useful Post:

    SchaumburgSwan (May 14th, 2020), sgphoto (May 14th, 2020)

  12. #7
    Senior Member guyy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Brooklyn NY
    Posts
    775
    Thanks
    381
    Thanked 618 Times in 344 Posts
    Rep Power
    8

    Default Re: Iron Gall Inks

    It’s your choice, but vintage pens with sacs are just fine with iron gall ink. It was the standard ink back in the day, and the simpler feeds don’t have a lot of nooks and crannies for particles to gather. Kind of the same with pistons: those old Pelikans and MBs saw plenty of iron gall ink in their youth. It’s the modern pens with the metal sections and trim rings that you have to worry about.

    I would avoid using it in vintage pens with a lot of metal like Snorkels, or 51s with the metal breather tubes and the fine-finned collector.

    Pelikan blue black is good

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to guyy For This Useful Post:

    sgphoto (May 14th, 2020)

  14. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    290
    Thanks
    469
    Thanked 311 Times in 147 Posts
    Rep Power
    5

    Default Re: Iron Gall Inks

    Thanks for the suggestions. Have I been misinformed about iron gall inks? It seems I've heard the horror stories about iron gall inks so are those just anecdotal or is their any basis in facts (other than not allowing ig inks to dry on feeds)?

    Thanks.

  15. #9
    Senior Member silverlifter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    616
    Thanks
    359
    Thanked 772 Times in 355 Posts
    Rep Power
    6

    Default Re: Iron Gall Inks

    Quote Originally Posted by sgphoto View Post
    Thanks for the suggestions. Have I been misinformed about iron gall inks? It seems I've heard the horror stories about iron gall inks so are those just anecdotal or is their any basis in facts (other than not allowing ig inks to dry on feeds)?.
    It's FUD, in my opinion and experience. Mostly fuelled by Ken Crooker's (probably well meaning, but incredibly poorly conceived) blog post from years ago that is still referred to by alarmists like it is some sort of actual experiment....

    To be fair to Ken, he does make the same caveat. Sadly, most don't read that section it seems.

    There is an extensive list of IG inks maintained here: https://gdoc.pub/doc/e/2PACX-1vQohlC...S7kVTuH5M5BvPr
    Last edited by silverlifter; May 14th, 2020 at 12:57 PM.
    Vintage. Cursive italic. Iron gall.

  16. The Following User Says Thank You to silverlifter For This Useful Post:

    sgphoto (May 14th, 2020)

  17. #10
    Senior Member Yazeh's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Montreal, Canada
    Posts
    8,351
    Thanks
    9,827
    Thanked 6,081 Times in 2,212 Posts
    Rep Power
    14

    Default Re: Iron Gall Inks

    Quote Originally Posted by silverlifter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sgphoto View Post
    Thanks for the suggestions. Have I been misinformed about iron gall inks? It seems I've heard the horror stories about iron gall inks so are those just anecdotal or is their any basis in facts (other than not allowing ig inks to dry on feeds)?.
    It's FUD, in my opinion and experience. Mostly fuelled by Ken Crooker's (probably well meaning, but incredibly poorly conceived) blog post from years ago that is still referred to by alarmists like it is some sort of actual experiment....

    To be fair to Ken, he does make the same caveat. Sadly, most don't read that section it seems.

    There is an extensive list of IG inks maintained here: https://gdoc.pub/doc/e/2PACX-1vQohlC...S7kVTuH5M5BvPr
    Great to know. Now I can use Scabiosa in some of my vintage pens

  18. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    1,712
    Thanks
    4,741
    Thanked 4,642 Times in 1,129 Posts
    Rep Power
    12

    Default Re: Iron Gall Inks

    Just found this list:

    A COMPREHENSIVE AND CROWD-SOURCED
    LIST OF IRON-GALL-BASED FOUNTAIN PEN INKS
    COMPILED BY T. MEDEIROS
    V1.07. LAST UPDATED ON FEBRUARY 29th, 2020
    https://gdoc.pub/doc/1po8jfMHv-Uz_io...RSfmkkR4GaZ23g

    Interesting to see Hero 232 on there, in addition to the ones mentioned already.

  19. The Following User Says Thank You to catbert For This Useful Post:

    sgphoto (May 14th, 2020)

  20. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    369
    Thanks
    115
    Thanked 247 Times in 125 Posts
    Rep Power
    11

    Default Re: Iron Gall Inks

    Iron gall inks can cause issues with certain steel nibs, particularly ones that are not very corrosion resistant alloys. Some years ago, the better pens had 14k nibs while cheaper pens had steel nibs with a thin wash of gold plating on them. These steel nibs would corrode, sometimes severely with iron gall inks. This was especially true if the pen sat for long periods. Plated metal trim parts can also corrode - brass darkens and develops a rough texture; steel rusts or pits.

    14k gold as a nib material is an excellent balance of pliability, durability, and corrosion resistance. I use Pelikan 4001 Blue-Black as a daily workhorse ink, along with Waterman Blue-Black (and Florida Blue in the summer; Waterman Green at Christmas). The 14k nibs, latex sacs, and vintage piston fillers work fine. A 14k nib is not so much about having the cachet of a "gold nib", it's about the fact that 14k is has excellent properties for making a pen nib.

    If in doubt, stick to "mainstream" inks made by large fountain pen companies. Pelikan 4001 Blue-Black is a good example, but there are others.

    I would actually be more concerned about modern, ultra-saturated inks that are also highly alkaline. I'd be concerned there with sac degradation and interaction with vintage celluloid. (EDIT - I just checked the link to Richard's webpage and it covers these concerns rather well.)
    Last edited by Ray-VIgo; May 14th, 2020 at 01:38 PM.

  21. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Ray-VIgo For This Useful Post:

    sgphoto (May 14th, 2020), welch (May 22nd, 2020)

  22. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    290
    Thanks
    469
    Thanked 311 Times in 147 Posts
    Rep Power
    5

    Default Re: Iron Gall Inks

    Those are interesting reads I'll spend more time going over. Thanks to all for your help.

    I will say that on 52 and 68 gsm Tomoe paper (much less so on Clairfontaine) the iron galls I used from KWZ - Blue Black, Blue #5, Turquoise, and Gold have very nice sheen, shading, and do not fully go dark/black. I have these inks, plus Salix, Scabiosa, and Essri in 8 different pens from Ahabs, Rangas, Yard-O-Led, Italix Churchman's Prescriptor, and Neponset and am very pleased. None are hard starters whether in fine to 1.5 stub nibs.

    Three pens (all Indian eyedroppers) contain Salix, Scabiosa, and ESSRI for over two months without any nib staining, though most are used at least every other day to write a few lines. These three have not been cleaned since using the IG inks, but have been refilled from time to time.

    From what I've read before today and then today with your suggestions, the majority of modern IG inks are safe. There seem to be a few outliers, but sticking with the major ink brands provides a great measure of pen safety.

  23. The Following User Says Thank You to sgphoto For This Useful Post:

    Ray-VIgo (May 14th, 2020)

  24. #14
    Senior Member silverlifter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    616
    Thanks
    359
    Thanked 772 Times in 355 Posts
    Rep Power
    6

    Default Re: Iron Gall Inks

    I have Akkerman #10 in my L2K, and left it unused for at least a month over our lockdown. Picked it up, uncapped it and it wrote beautifully from the moment the nib (MCI) touched the page.

    IG's are terrific inks. If they are well made, and almost all are, you can treat them like, well, a pen with ink in it. Not some sort of biohazard that requires ritual cleaning, votives to the gods and the ocassional first born
    Vintage. Cursive italic. Iron gall.

  25. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to silverlifter For This Useful Post:

    SchaumburgSwan (May 14th, 2020), sgphoto (May 14th, 2020)

  26. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    290
    Thanks
    469
    Thanked 311 Times in 147 Posts
    Rep Power
    5

    Default Re: Iron Gall Inks

    Quote Originally Posted by silverlifter View Post
    I have Akkerman #10 in my L2K, and left it unused for at least a month over our lockdown. Picked it up, uncapped it and it wrote beautifully from the moment the nib (MCI) touched the page.

    IG's are terrific inks. If they are well made, and almost all are, you can treat them like, well, a pen with ink in it. Not some sort of biohazard that requires ritual cleaning, votives to the gods and the ocassional first born
    Thanks for that. I won't be needing that human sacrifice tonight after all.

  27. #16
    Senior Member welch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    1,031
    Thanks
    1,504
    Thanked 510 Times in 344 Posts
    Rep Power
    12

    Default Re: Iron Gall Inks

    Quote Originally Posted by silverlifter View Post
    IG's are terrific inks. If they are well made, and almost all are, you can treat them like, well, a pen with ink in it. Not some sort of biohazard that requires ritual cleaning, votives to the gods and the ocassional first born
    No particular opinion about IG inks, but Silverlifter's comment about ink that requires "ritual cleaning" caught my attention. For more than a few years, I have noticed, on FPN and here, "ritual" comments that assume it is necessary to tear a pen down to the smallest parts just to change inks. Even to pull a nib off of a P-45 or Pelikan nib unit. Usually includes a suggestion that people avoid the P-51 because it is "so hard" to flush.

    Where did this come from? Does someone say that an ink might explode?

  28. #17
    Senior Member silverlifter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    616
    Thanks
    359
    Thanked 772 Times in 355 Posts
    Rep Power
    6

    Default Re: Iron Gall Inks

    Quote Originally Posted by welch View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by silverlifter View Post
    IG's are terrific inks. If they are well made, and almost all are, you can treat them like, well, a pen with ink in it. Not some sort of biohazard that requires ritual cleaning, votives to the gods and the ocassional first born
    No particular opinion about IG inks, but Silverlifter's comment about ink that requires "ritual cleaning" caught my attention. For more than a few years, I have noticed, on FPN and here, "ritual" comments that assume it is necessary to tear a pen down to the smallest parts just to change inks. Even to pull a nib off of a P-45 or Pelikan nib unit. Usually includes a suggestion that people avoid the P-51 because it is "so hard" to flush.

    Where did this come from? Does someone say that an ink might explode?
    I have always assumed it comes from people who didn't grow up with fountain pens. They either assume, thanks to canards promulgated in places like reddit, that some inks are "troublesome", eg, iron galls, the one type of ink that has been happily inked in pens since BI (the dark times before the internets), or that "the hobby" exclusively involves buying pens and inks, field stripping them, photographing them, and using them solely to produce currently inked posts...
    Vintage. Cursive italic. Iron gall.

  29. The Following User Says Thank You to silverlifter For This Useful Post:

    welch (May 30th, 2020)

  30. #18
    Senior Member Yazeh's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Montreal, Canada
    Posts
    8,351
    Thanks
    9,827
    Thanked 6,081 Times in 2,212 Posts
    Rep Power
    14

    Default Re: Iron Gall Inks

    Quote Originally Posted by silverlifter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by welch View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by silverlifter View Post
    IG's are terrific inks. If they are well made, and almost all are, you can treat them like, well, a pen with ink in it. Not some sort of biohazard that requires ritual cleaning, votives to the gods and the ocassional first born
    No particular opinion about IG inks, but Silverlifter's comment about ink that requires "ritual cleaning" caught my attention. For more than a few years, I have noticed, on FPN and here, "ritual" comments that assume it is necessary to tear a pen down to the smallest parts just to change inks. Even to pull a nib off of a P-45 or Pelikan nib unit. Usually includes a suggestion that people avoid the P-51 because it is "so hard" to flush.

    Where did this come from? Does someone say that an ink might explode?
    I have always assumed it comes from people who didn't grow up with fountain pens. They either assume, thanks to canards promulgated in places like reddit, that some inks are "troublesome", eg, iron galls, the one type of ink that has been happily inked in pens since BI (the dark times before the internets), or that "the hobby" exclusively involves buying pens and inks, field stripping them, photographing them, and using them solely to produce currently inked posts...
    So true.. those were the good old times, that you used any ink you pleased and there were no pundits, who preach this and that. After all we can use whatever ink we want in our pen and if something happen we learn. What's wrong with that?

  31. The Following User Says Thank You to Yazeh For This Useful Post:

    welch (May 30th, 2020)

  32. #19
    Senior Member azkid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Colorado, USA
    Posts
    2,016
    Thanks
    3,725
    Thanked 1,703 Times in 822 Posts
    Rep Power
    9

    Default Re: Iron Gall Inks

    Though only anecdotal, my Jinhao 8802 survived a month with Registrar's Blue Black in it. I think modern IG inks probably use less of the stuff and maybe are formulated better than older inks. I still haven't bought any but have tried ones from R&K and Platinum too and each have been pretty nice to use.

  33. #20
    Senior Member The Good Captain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Shropshire, Great Britain
    Posts
    381
    Thanks
    9
    Thanked 252 Times in 105 Posts
    Rep Power
    12

    Default Re: Iron Gall Inks

    You can't beat 4001 B-B.
    The Good Captain
    (Gaston F Limoges)
    "Meddler's 'Salamander' - almost as good as the real thing!"

  34. The Following User Says Thank You to The Good Captain For This Useful Post:

    sgphoto (May 15th, 2020)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •