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Thread: The different nib grinds by nib meisters.

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    Default The different nib grinds by nib meisters.

    I recently purchase an extra Pelikan M1000 nib unit to have a nib meister give me some type of italic, whether a stub, cursive italic, italic, any other variety of grind.

    The problem is that is looking over the various nib meister websites, I haven't found one that demonstrates what they mean when they describe their grind.

    It would certainly make a selection easier if they would write a line using all the various grinds they perform using black or blue ink. A simple pdf on one page of their site and I could make the comparisons and have a reasonable expectation of what to expect.

    It wouldn't be difficult for them to do and may make the client's expectation and the nib meister's product a closer meeting of the minds. Plus, I could compare different nib meister's work.

    Perhaps I'm missing something, but do you know of any nib meister's websites that have demonstrations of their work?
    Last edited by sgphoto; May 18th, 2020 at 10:41 AM.

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    Senior Member Wile E Coyote's Avatar
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    Default Re: The different nib grinds by nib meisters.

    About the best reference I've come across is Richard Binder's: Nibs I: The Basics

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    Default Re: The different nib grinds by nib meisters.

    Common Nib Grinds (examples done on Pelikan nibs)

    5 second Google search. I don't find the handwriting entirely indicative of all the grinds but it is close. There is a ton of variation depending on the size of the nib one is starting from, but looking at a few examples and understanding the way a nib style is ground and what it's intended use is can dial it in.
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
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    Default Re: The different nib grinds by nib meisters.

    Quote Originally Posted by sgphoto View Post
    I recently purchase an extra Pelikan M1000 nib unit to have a nib meister give me some type of italic, whether a stub, cursive italic, italic, any other variety of grind.

    The problem is that is looking over the various nib meister websites, I haven't found one that demonstrates what they mean when they describe their grind.

    It would certainly make a selection easier if they would write a line using all the various grinds they perform using black or blue ink. A simple pdf on one page of their site and I could make the comparisons and have a reasonable expectation of what to expect.

    It wouldn't be difficult for them to do and may make the client's expectation and the nib meister's product a closer meeting of the minds. Plus, I could compare different nib meister's work.

    Perhaps I'm missing something, but do you know of any nib meister's websites that have demonstrations of their work?
    What size nib?

    I have grinds from a few of the old skool nibmeisters, John Mottishaw being my favorite.

    Pendleton's BLS grind is a really nice grind, he's a good guy, price is fair and the hybrid italic-stub is exciting to write with
    The secret of getting ahead is getting started-- Mark Twain

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    Default Re: The different nib grinds by nib meisters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wile E Coyote View Post
    About the best reference I've come across is Richard Binder's: Nibs I: The Basics
    Yes. Richard Binder is a great resource. I contacted him this weekend and he gave me his recommendation for a nib meister who could do the job.

    So far the best I am considering is sending the nib meister writing samples from various nibs from 1.1 and 1.5 stubs to broad italics to give them an idea of what I'm wanting.

    It still would be nice if nib meisters would show their work as we're not talking generalities which are readily available online and in references, but the specifics of each craftsman's work. What one person considers as an appropriate italic may vary from another's idea.

    Thanks for your reply.
    Cheers,
    Sg

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    Senior Member Ron Z's Avatar
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    Default Re: The different nib grinds by nib meisters.

    [QUOTE=sgphoto;291665]
    Quote Originally Posted by Wile E Coyote View Post
    So far the best I am considering is sending the nib meister writing samples from various nibs from 1.1 and 1.5 stubs to broad italics to give them an idea of what I'm wanting.
    Sg
    I frequently ask clients to send a writing sample with a nib that they like, on paper that they usually use, with plenty of room for me to test, when sending a nib to be ground. Long distance by mail doesn't give you the opportunity to pass the pen back and forth. The writing sample gives me a clear example of what they want, one that I can measure and duplicate. Usingtheir paper eliminates that variable when testing.

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    Default Re: The different nib grinds by nib meisters.

    Quote Originally Posted by wingwiper View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sgphoto View Post
    I recently purchase an extra Pelikan M1000 nib unit to have a nib meister give me some type of italic, whether a stub, cursive italic, italic, any other variety of grind.

    The problem is that is looking over the various nib meister websites, I haven't found one that demonstrates what they mean when they describe their grind.

    It would certainly make a selection easier if they would write a line using all the various grinds they perform using black or blue ink. A simple pdf on one page of their site and I could make the comparisons and have a reasonable expectation of what to expect.

    It wouldn't be difficult for them to do and may make the client's expectation and the nib meister's product a closer meeting of the minds. Plus, I could compare different nib meister's work.

    Perhaps I'm missing something, but do you know of any nib meister's websites that have demonstrations of their work?
    What size nib?

    I have grinds from a few of the old skool nibmeisters, John Mottishaw being my favorite.

    Pendleton's BLS grind is a really nice grind, he's a good guy, price is fair and the hybrid italic-stub is exciting to write with
    I have a broad and a medium nib. Both write bigger than a broad and medium. I'm thinking to keep the medium as it's more of a broad and having the broad done.

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    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: The different nib grinds by nib meisters.

    A stub and italic both do the same thing - give you a wider vertical line than the horizontal line. The only differences are the size of the nib you start with (a broader nib will give you a broader vertical line), and how gentle or sharp of a radius they put on the working portion - or edge - of the grind. That radius determines the thickness of the horizontal line.

    A crisp, true italic will be very "sharp" and unforgiving. The radius is very acute, almost still left as an angle; and the corners are not smoothed very much in order to maintain as much width as possible. Most "cursive italics", my "daily grind*", Pendleton's "Butter Line Stub", etc... are very usable nibs for everyday writing. The average stubs just have a little bit thicker horizontal line and are a little bit more forgiving to nib position.

    The crisper the grind and the broader the nib, the more sensitive it is to nib position. Paper and ink will affect the variation some too. The wetter nib or ink, or the more absorbent the paper; the less variation you'll see.

    I would start with an inexpensive Lamy Safari or Al-Star, and their 1.1 and 1.5 "italics" to get an idea of how broad a line you might want.

    If I had to pick one to use for the rest of my life from a "nibmeister", it would be Pendleton Brown's BLS grind. They're a little toothy on the down stroke, but very usable. Mike Masuyama grinds the most visually perfect grinds I've ever seen. I would start with a stub from him instead of a cursive italic (which aren't very forgiving).

    Here are a couple of pics from my nibgrinding thread. The Pilot Varsity is somewhere between around a Pelikan M when ground (0.7-0.8mm)

    Grind4_zps640e738d.JPEG

    WritingSample_zps1f33c363.JPG

    *thanks to Jon Szanto for the name

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    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: The different nib grinds by nib meisters.

    Since I was digging around Photobucket for those pics, here are a couple of before and after shots of Pendleton's BLS grind that I posted on FPN some years ago. I wrote a sample before I sent them off, kept the pages, and wrote with them when I got them back.

    OmasBLSBeforeandAfter_zps0aec31d1.JPG

    MB145BLSBeforeandAfter_zps8dcd3b00.JPG

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    Default Re: The different nib grinds by nib meisters.

    Still rummaging around.

    Here's a comparison between some standard nibs and some grinds, to give you an idea of line width and variation.

    Nibsamples_zpsa5430231.JPG

    Here is a comparison of ground nibs. From top to bottom:

    M200, 14k M stub I ground
    M400, 14k M stub from Richard Binder
    Conway Stewart factory (Bock) Medium Italic
    Franklin Christoph with M Cursive Italic from Mike Masuyama
    Pelikan M605 M with Pendleton Brown Butter Line Stub
    Omas Ogiva M with BLS
    Montblanc 145 with BLS

    StubComparo_zpsdfd80f39.JPG

    Here's a Mottishaw (nibs.com) cursive italic. A Nakaya B is about the same as a European M

    IMG_0391.jpg

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    Default Re: The different nib grinds by nib meisters.

    Dneal, if nothing else, I hope everyone can appreciate that you have actually included an example of italic script in your handwriting samples. That is just top notch, and these are all very fine illustrations.
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

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