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Thread: Basic must have tools for restoration

  1. #61
    Senior Member Sailor Kenshin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Basic must have tools for restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrissy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FredRydr View Post
    Whenever I see dental tools for cheap, I take a handful home and only later discover how useful different types are for inner barrel and cap tasks. A couple are essential for ossified sac removal.
    I would be very tempted to do that. However, I've never seen any dental tools for cheap prices.
    My dentist gave me some of his old tools in the Way Beforetime. Originally I used them for arts 'n' crafts, but gladly handed them over when we started re-saccing pens.

    And I SO love Penwash's sketches. I'm stealing the idea. (We previously took photos).
    My other pen is a Montblanc.

    And my other blog is a tumblr!

    My eBooks. Because why not.

  2. #62
    Senior Member Johnny_S's Avatar
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    Default Re: Basic must have tools for restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by DCmin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrissy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny_S View Post
    I see that DC Min is not doing restoration for the foreseaable, his need to buy the basic list could be a factor, I dunno.
    Whatever DCMin is doing now or in the future he asked the question: There must be more than a few FPGs out there who are into restoration. If someone with the desire (and prerequisite skills) wanted to try restoration as a hobby, whats the first, say, 10 tools that one would need in their kit?

    He didn't even say whether or not he was talking about himself as a prospective repairer. He could be just an interested party asking for 10 basic tools that repairers might use.
    He received good replies naming basic tools.
    Mission accomplished.
    Excellent post Chrissy. I was just curious and figured FPG was the place to satisfy my curiousity. I never expected over 50 responses!! Thanks to all. I appreciate, and read all of them.
    The only issue that I had was how the word basic was interpretted as compared to comprehensive.

    Basic to me would mean a starter kit, for others who are professional and experienced repairers the word appears to have had the meaning basic requirements for my workshop.

    Was called a bloody clown and a troll for giving an honest view.

  3. #63
    Senior Member Fermata's Avatar
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    Default Re: Basic must have tools for restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny_S View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DCmin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrissy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny_S View Post
    I see that DC Min is not doing restoration for the foreseaable, his need to buy the basic list could be a factor, I dunno.
    Whatever DCMin is doing now or in the future he asked the question: There must be more than a few FPGs out there who are into restoration. If someone with the desire (and prerequisite skills) wanted to try restoration as a hobby, whats the first, say, 10 tools that one would need in their kit?

    He didn't even say whether or not he was talking about himself as a prospective repairer. He could be just an interested party asking for 10 basic tools that repairers might use.
    He received good replies naming basic tools.
    Mission accomplished.
    Excellent post Chrissy. I was just curious and figured FPG was the place to satisfy my curiousity. I never expected over 50 responses!! Thanks to all. I appreciate, and read all of them.
    The only issue that I had was how the word basic was interpretted as compared to comprehensive.

    Basic to me would mean a starter kit, for others who are professional and experienced repairers the word appears to have had the meaning basic requirements for my workshop.

    Was called a bloody clown and a troll for giving an honest view.
    That's the way it is on here John, people get pissy when you don't agree with them.

    See you in October with any luck.

  4. #64
    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
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    Default Re: Basic must have tools for restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny_S View Post
    The only issue that I had was how the word basic was interpretted as compared to comprehensive. Basic to me would mean a starter kit, for others who are professional and experienced repairers the word appears to have had the meaning basic requirements for my workshop.

    Was called a bloody clown and a troll for giving an honest view.
    "Basic" can and does mean different things. The problem is that you became upset when people used a different perspective on the word than you did, a broader interpretation. And when you say "professional and experienced repairers", you should know that only 3 total come close to that - Deb and Will restore pens for their own sales, and Ron is the one drop-dead professional restoration person. People like me, and there are others, simply have been doing our own repairs and restorations on pens we purchase for ourselves. I've been doing it for a few years, starting completely from scratch as a novice. I asked virtually the same question on a number of forums and over the years have purchased or made a small set of tools. I freely offered my comments on what had worked best for me and what I thought were most important, omitting anything that had been said already.

    As for your latter comment, you may have given an 'honest view' but you did it by putting down what others had contributed, calling into question why people had answered the way they had, and - as it turns out - the OP was quite pleased with all the responses. I'd put a high percentage of all of this down to poor communication, and while I wish Chrissy might have responded otherwise, you are fairly new here and we HAVE had complete assholes in recent years. I went back and re-read most of the thread and Post #38 contains an awful lot of edge in your response. There is NO moderation on this forum so people tend to take things into their own hands.

    Lots of great info in the thread and some people who are very successful at working on pens. Things we can all learn from, including you. Be a little more open into accepting other viewpoints, if you can, as it really deepens the experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fermata View Post
    That's the way it is on here John, people get pissy when you don't agree with them.
    Not so. People respond to attitudes and demeanors, and it isn't a given. Sometimes umbrage is felt specifically when it is sought out.
    Last edited by Jon Szanto; July 22nd, 2020 at 10:15 PM.
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

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  6. #65
    FPG Donor ♕ Chrissy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Basic must have tools for restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by Fermata View Post
    That's the way it is on here John, people get pissy when you don't agree with them.

    See you in October with any luck.
    Not so, at least as far as I was concerned.

    I have experienced no problems with Johnny_S in previous threads and I really tried replying to his posts nicely, with smilies, and what I thought was helpful information, even after his post #38 that seemed designed to be mainly argumentative and only written to disagree with all previous helpful posts.

    However, he then made personal comments to me that I was putting a spin on OP's original question. That upset me because it was, and still is, clearly untrue and that much is obvious if anyone simply reads my posts. It became clear then that he was not just giving his own "honest opinion" but was merely determined to argue against everything I tried to say. In my previous experiences that's how trolling starts, so I cut it off. NB: Trolling is defined as creating discord on the Internet by starting quarrels or upsetting people by posting inflammatory or off-topic messages in an online community.

    I wasn't "getting pissy because he didn't agree with me." If I had been I would have ignored him several posts earlier.
    Last edited by Chrissy; July 23rd, 2020 at 02:32 AM.
    Regards, Chrissy | My Blog: inkyfountainpens

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    Default Re: Basic must have tools for restoration

    Yes, I did overdo my aversion to pliers there Ron but with the sheer number of nice Duofolds I'm seeing with chewed up sections, I really would like to ensure the new generation of pen restorers don't start the same way the last one did :-)

    Love your page - one of my first references when I started getting into pens.

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    Default Re: Basic must have tools for restoration

    Have I already responded? I'm less than a novice, but I have a drawer with pen stuff. I have this spreader thing for a type of fastener that works well for expanding the sac while attaching. A long nose tweezers comes in handy for extracting the j bar. The little blade on a 1940's Boker Barlow gets rid of the old sac residue. From my straight razor honing plastic box come the many grits of sand paper, metal polish, and 0000 steel wool. And yes, the mandolin e string works to unclog a nib.

    I think the most important tool is the concept of going slow and being patient.

  11. #68
    FPG Donor ♕ Chrissy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Basic must have tools for restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by amk View Post
    Yes, I did overdo my aversion to pliers there Ron but with the sheer number of nice Duofolds I'm seeing with chewed up sections, I really would like to ensure the new generation of pen restorers don't start the same way the last one did :-)

    Love your page - one of my first references when I started getting into pens.
    That's a good message to get across.
    Regards, Chrissy | My Blog: inkyfountainpens

  12. #69
    FPG Donor ♕ Chrissy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Basic must have tools for restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by Sailor Kenshin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrissy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FredRydr View Post
    Whenever I see dental tools for cheap, I take a handful home and only later discover how useful different types are for inner barrel and cap tasks. A couple are essential for ossified sac removal.
    I would be very tempted to do that. However, I've never seen any dental tools for cheap prices.
    My dentist gave me some of his old tools in the Way Beforetime. Originally I used them for arts 'n' crafts, but gladly handed them over when we started re-saccing pens.

    And I SO love Penwash's sketches. I'm stealing the idea. (We previously took photos).
    I have one dental tool that used to be for a dog, that has been repurposed as a pen tool. If I ever saw others then I would quickly add them to my stock.
    I really wish I could also say I was stealing Penwash's sketch idea. Sadly, I can't sketch that well.
    Regards, Chrissy | My Blog: inkyfountainpens

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    Senior Member Sailor Kenshin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Basic must have tools for restoration

    Neither can I, but that won't stop me.
    My other pen is a Montblanc.

    And my other blog is a tumblr!

    My eBooks. Because why not.

  14. #71
    Senior Member Ron Z's Avatar
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    Default Re: Basic must have tools for restoration

    Believe it or not, my list is basic. Any one who sits at my table at a show, or sees my work shop (very rare) knows how far down the tool rabbit hole I've gone. I did a whole seminar at Chicago one year about tools in the box, why I have them, how I made them, and what they're used for.

    AMK, I'm right there with you! It seems like I spend half my time saying, "You really don't want to do that." I've thought a blog post titled "butchery," but figured it would be way too long for anyone to read.

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    Senior Member Johnny_S's Avatar
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    Default Re: Basic must have tools for restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Z View Post
    Believe it or not, my list is basic. Any one who sits at my table at a show, or sees my work shop (very rare) knows how far down the tool rabbit hole I've gone. I did a whole seminar at Chicago one year about tools in the box, why I have them, how I made them, and what they're used for.

    AMK, I'm right there with you! It seems like I spend half my time saying, "You really don't want to do that." I've thought a blog post titled "butchery," but figured it would be way too long for anyone to read.
    With all due respect you surely must mean a basic set up for doing what you do and not for a hobbyist, repairing anything and everything to a professional standard. the OP currently does nothing more at present than flushes out his owned pens and you would seriously be saying to him, here is the list of equipment to go and buy without questionning what type of pens he would want to work on.

    For example, if I am approached by someone with a broken pen and I know they don't currently have the skills or tools to do the repair, by suggestion as a general rule is to send it out to a professional, not go out and buy a ton of workshop tools.

  17. #73
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    Default Re: Basic must have tools for restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Z View Post
    Believe it or not, my list is basic. Any one who sits at my table at a show, or sees my work shop (very rare) knows how far down the tool rabbit hole I've gone. I did a whole seminar at Chicago one year about tools in the box, why I have them, how I made them, and what they're used for.

    AMK, I'm right there with you! It seems like I spend half my time saying, "You really don't want to do that." I've thought a blog post titled "butchery," but figured it would be way too long for anyone to read.
    I believe it and really envy your ability to make your own tools. I'm completely stuck on getting a torx socket tool to fit down into the cap of my Montblanc Bohme so that I can line up the clip properly when it's posted on the end of the barrel. I've now conceded that it doesn't exist apart from inside Montblanc.
    Regards, Chrissy | My Blog: inkyfountainpens

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    Default Re: Basic must have tools for restoration

    I'd rather pay Ron or another professional to restore a 51 than destroy it with my lack of skill and tools.

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    Senior Member Johnny_S's Avatar
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    Default Re: Basic must have tools for restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    I'd rather pay Ron or another professional to restore a 51 than destroy it with my lack of skill and tools.
    That is the second part of the discussion, far too too many good pens have been reuined by enthusiastic amateurs.

    I made a comparison between the tools wanted by a cook as compared to a chef, I will never be a chef and will never use all of the chef's tools needed by my brother, he would regard my pitiful kitchen tool requirements, that suits my skills and the food I make, as being hopeless.

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    Senior Member Ron Z's Avatar
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    Default Re: Basic must have tools for restoration

    With all due respect you surely must mean a basic set up for doing what you do and not for a hobbyist, repairing anything and everything to a professional standard.
    No, I mean a basic set up. It has a few more things than Sheaffer had in their Serviset that they sold to shops, but most of them are tools that one would use to resac a lever filler, repair a Vacumatic, or smooth a nib. There's nothing there for a plunger filler, piston filler, safety, plastic repair, etc. I don't consider cleaning your pen to be a repair. That's maintenance. The list doesn't cover but a fraction of the tools that I use at the bench.

    My thinking, and most of what I write, begins with the premise that a significant part of the pen community will try to repair their pen at one point or another, and that I can give advice to guide them. Thus far I haven't been proven wrong. Even people who shouldn't, usually try something in the way of fixing a pen. I'm not talking about the advanced repairs that I do. I'm talking about basic repairs. Read the repair forums - a lot of people want to, and do their own repairs.

    Most of the tools listed are the ones I acquired early on as I was learning how to repair pens, 30 years ago. I turned the box I bought at a garage sale into a box to hold my tools that was remarkably like the box Sheaffer sold, except that mine had a space in the lid with a cover to hold pliers etc. I had no idea that I would end up as a professional pen mechanic, but I knew that having the right tools could help me to do the job right, while minimizing the risk of breaking the pen.

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  22. #77
    Senior Member Johnny_S's Avatar
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    Default Re: Basic must have tools for restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Z View Post
    With all due respect you surely must mean a basic set up for doing what you do and not for a hobbyist, repairing anything and everything to a professional standard.
    No, I mean a basic set up. It has a few more things than Sheaffer had in their Serviset that they sold to shops, but most of them are tools that one would use to resac a lever filler, repair a Vacumatic, or smooth a nib. There's nothing there for a plunger filler, piston filler, safety, plastic repair, etc. I don't consider cleaning your pen to be a repair. That's maintenance. The list doesn't cover but a fraction of the tools that I use at the bench.

    My thinking, and most of what I write, begins with the premise that a significant part of the pen community will try to repair their pen at one point or another, and that I can give advice to guide them. Thus far I haven't been proven wrong. Even people who shouldn't, usually try something in the way of fixing a pen. I'm not talking about the advanced repairs that I do. I'm talking about basic repairs. Read the repair forums - a lot of people want to, and do their own repairs.

    Most of the tools listed are the ones I acquired early on as I was learning how to repair pens, 30 years ago. I turned the box I bought at a garage sale into a box to hold my tools that was remarkably like the box Sheaffer sold, except that mine had a space in the lid with a cover to hold pliers etc. I had no idea that I would end up as a professional pen mechanic, but I knew that having the right tools could help me to do the job right, while minimizing the risk of breaking the pen.

    To go back to the beginning someone comes along and says I only flush my pens out right now, I am not going to do professional repairs just the odd pen that I might find in an antique mall, but what basic tools do I need to restore that pen, you would give him your detailed list and say 'that is your starting point'.

    My advice would be to know your abilities and limit the tools you buy until you know what you are doing, sending out the pens for professional repair in the meantime if it is justified.

    I have been called a troll and a bloody clown, whiich is annoying, for simply having a different perspective, I am a 'learn to walk before you run' kind of man in all things and, unlike you, my advice to people is build your skills before your workshop. Especially if it's as a hobbyist with a low volume rather than a professional undertaking.

    Suggest we leave it there whilst I go off and be a bloody clown and a troll to someone else.

  23. #78
    Senior Member Sailor Kenshin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Basic must have tools for restoration

    PS: We specialize in finding and repairing beaters. Repairing, not restoring.

    There's a great satisfaction for me in that. So we don't need a lot of the spiffing-up tools that pros use. If it writes, I'm happy. It doesn't have to look perfect, though we do have a few Sheaffer's TDs that look fiiine. Either those pens are impervious to wear, or hadn't seen much use.
    My other pen is a Montblanc.

    And my other blog is a tumblr!

    My eBooks. Because why not.

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    Senior Member azkid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Basic must have tools for restoration

    I built up my hobbyist skills along with my tools although some tools I used from other hobbies. I started with tools/materials for sac replacement and polishing.

    I don't use sac pliers just an xacto or scissors to cut down the sac. And a cheapie artist brush to apply talc. Needle nose to extract the lever if broken.

    If heat is needed I use a digital temp control SMD hot air rework station.

    Polishing: cotton buffing wheels and Dremel and red, white compound. Also zona papers.

    Nib smoothing via micromesh sticks.

    I didn't have anything fancy for nib alignment. Just a table and practice. I would love to get a nib block, for proper straightening, some day.

    I recently made a nib block and "punch" for one or two particular pens when the need arose, and used a small hammer for watch repair.

    I added some basic Vacumatic tools when I had a pen that needed a new diaphragm and other work. (I also needed Ron's priceless advice)

    Like with cars I bought tools as I needed them. And like with cars some stuff requires skills and lots of experience that I don't have the talent or remaining years left to acquire. So that stuff I will leave to a skilled pro.

  25. #80
    FPG Donor ♕ Chrissy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Basic must have tools for restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by azkid View Post
    If heat is needed I use a digital temp control SMD hot air rework station.

    Polishing: cotton buffing wheels and Dremel and red, white compound. Also zona papers.

    Nib smoothing via micromesh sticks.

    I didn't have anything fancy for nib alignment. Just a table and practice. I would love to get a nib block, for proper straightening, some day.
    I would be interested to learn more about the "red, white compound" for polishing. I sometimes buy Parker 45 pens with bite marks on the end of the barrel and although heat can work some better polishing compound than that I have might be a good purchase.

    Recently I was looking at the possibility of buying a nib block for proper nib straightening but the metal ones are very expensive and I was advised that the resin ones can quickly degrade with use. I decided against the purchase at that time.
    Regards, Chrissy | My Blog: inkyfountainpens

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